Rideau-Sussex Redesign/Public Square | Proposed

[waterloowarrior]

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[Rathgrith]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Thanks for the comments, guys. I will see who and where in the NCC I can pass on this suggestion.

I guess I ninth this. However Kitchissippi, screw the NCC, you need to go public and email this photo to all the newspapers and build public pressure on the NCC.

[highdensitysprawl]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith

I guess I ninth this. However Kitchissippi, screw the NCC, you need to go public and email this photo to all the newspapers and build public pressure on the NCC.

As much as some people on this board find him to be a cranky, old man (sort of like the typical CFRA listnership), Randall Denley may be a good guy to send it to.

There is always the two harbingers of doom and gloom, Barry Waller and Rhys Phillips....er, wait a minute what was I saying.

[Ottawade]

I think we have a semi-broad diversity of people here with varied opinions and levels of technical expertise and formal training. At the same time we all seem interested in the same goal of steering the city's development in a positive direction.

Anyway, maybe it's time to attempt another SPP Ottawa meet for some organic pizza or some beers... perhaps in another thread...

[Aylmer]

If ever we do meet, keep in mind that some of us are still in school.
No flexible hours there!

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

And I'm stuck at college here in North Bay, but I'll be back for the long weekend.

[Davis137]

Well, I'm just a plain ol (well, still fairly young) army guy that's expecting his daughter/first child to be born the end of May...but I'm always interested in beer and pub fare, and conversation with people in the know about real-estate and development, etc...

[Radster]

Originally Posted by highdensitysprawl

(note: The Central Experimental Farm roundabout has the wrong priority...it gives the priority to cars wanting to get on the roundabout).

This is because the one at the Experimental Farm is by definition a "traffic circle" and not a "roundabout" like the ones in Hull.
Traffic circles work differently than roundabouts in that the priority is given to cars entering the circle.


Anyway, I TENTH Kitchissippi's idea. Send it to some Ottawa newspapers, even the OBJ.

[Kitchissippi]

Encouraged by your comments, I thought I'd elaborate on a pie-in-the-sky context for the concept, connecting some thoughts I've had for a while regarding this area. It's a crescent shaped traffic-free promenade between the Byward Market and the Rideau Centre. Add a swing bridge across the canal to the NAC and it would be a pleasant way to get to Sparks Street, too.



Elements:

1. allow the Chateau Laurier to expand and slightly encroach into Major's Hill Park, provided they tear down that ugly parking garage (put it underground) and open up a decent facade opening to the park and offer services and amenities. I find it ironic that the city's premier hotel turns its back on the capital's first urban park.

2 also open up the Chateau's Canal side to more shops, etc.

3. in the summer, encourage artists to set up along this route, much like they do in Quebec City, Old Montreal and Prague.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Encouraged by your comments, I thought I'd elaborate on a pie-in-the-sky context for the concept, connecting some thoughts I've had for a while regarding this area. It's a crescent shaped traffic-free promenade between the Byward Market and the Rideau Centre. Add a swing bridge across the canal to the NAC and it would be a pleasant way to get to Sparks Street, too.



Elements:

1. allow the Chateau Laurier to expand and slightly encroach into Major's Hill Park, provided they tear down that ugly parking garage (put it underground) and open up a decent facade opening to the park and offer services and amenities. I find it ironic that the city's premier hotel turns its back on the capital's first urban park.

2 also open up the Chateau's Canal side to more shops, etc.

3. in the summer, encourage artists to set up along this route, much like they do in Quebec City, Old Montreal and Prague.

Can you run for Grand Dictator of Ottawa? Please?

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

...
Elements:

1. allow the Chateau Laurier to expand and slightly encroach into Major's Hill Park, provided they tear down that ugly parking garage (put it underground) and open up a decent facade opening to the park and offer services and amenities. I find it ironic that the city's premier hotel turns its back on the capital's first urban park.

2 also open up the Chateau's Canal side to more shops, etc.

3. in the summer, encourage artists to set up along this route, much like they do in Quebec City, Old Montreal and Prague.

I would encourage such a plan. I like the idea of getting people to use such a wasted area. Could we encourage Buskers, too? They always seem to add fun to an area.

However, I worry about what an expansion of the Chateau would actually look like. I like the way the Lord Elgin was done when it grew; the general look was maintained but it is obviously different. For the Chateau, so far the additions I have seen (Zoe's and the Contemporary Photo Gallery) are not things which inspire me. There is a place for tacky glass add-ons, but it is not on buildings which are supposed to look stately and historical. The glass pyramid of the Louvre, the glass tower of the Victoria Memorial Building (Nature Museum), and Zoe's all strike me as being grossly out of character. If the Chateau could be enlarged in a respectful manner, I think it would be a good thing. If a bulbous glass 'tulip' is being added, then I am 100% against it. Your rendering looks good, but my bet is that the architect on the project will want to make a 'statement'.

(Yeah, I know, this is quite negative, but I group architects in with politicians, and lawyers; making a name for them-selves seems to come before anything else. I've grown very cynical.)

[ajldub]

Almost 20 years ago now Routeburn came up with this great plan for a convention centre under Major's Hill Park:

http://www.routeburn.ca/past_projects/n_convention.html

I love this plan. It could conceivably be incorporated into a Chateau Laurier expansion, and serve as the link in an underground walkway from the new LRT main terminal at Union Station all the way to the Art Gallery...

[highdensitysprawl]

Originally Posted by Radster

This is because the one at the Experimental Farm is by definition a "traffic circle" and not a "roundabout" like the ones in Hull.
Traffic circles work differently than roundabouts in that the priority is given to cars entering the circle.


Anyway, I TENTH Kitchissippi's idea. Send it to some Ottawa newspapers, even the OBJ.

I didn't know the difference as I have really only been on roundabouts (other than that one at the Experimental Farm)...the one in Cornwall when you get on or off the bridge to the USA is a roundabout isn't it.

If you are really into roundabouts there is always this.

http://www.amazon.ca/Roundabouts-Great-Britain-Kevin-Beresford/dp/1843308541

I once navigated myself through this one...not the faint at heart

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=51.562865,-1.771371&spn=0.000859,0.002843&t=h&z=19

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Encouraged by your comments, I thought I'd elaborate on a pie-in-the-sky context for the concept, connecting some thoughts I've had for a while regarding this area. It's a crescent shaped traffic-free promenade between the Byward Market and the Rideau Centre. Add a swing bridge across the canal to the NAC and it would be a pleasant way to get to Sparks Street, too.



Elements:

1. allow the Chateau Laurier to expand and slightly encroach into Major's Hill Park, provided they tear down that ugly parking garage (put it underground) and open up a decent facade opening to the park and offer services and amenities. I find it ironic that the city's premier hotel turns its back on the capital's first urban park.

2 also open up the Chateau's Canal side to more shops, etc.

3. in the summer, encourage artists to set up along this route, much like they do in Quebec City, Old Montreal and Prague.

Gorgeous! All that's missing is a new central library in the old Union Station.

It's also too bad that the patch of grass on the east side of the canal, north of Wellington, couldn't be better used, especially the part directly beside the Chateau/Portrait Gallery.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by highdensitysprawl

I didn't know the difference as I have really only been on roundabouts (other than that one at the Experimental Farm)...the one in Cornwall when you get on or off the bridge to the USA is a roundabout isn't it.

If you are really into roundabouts there is always this.

http://www.amazon.ca/Roundabouts-Great-Britain-Kevin-Beresford/dp/1843308541

I once navigated myself through this one...not the faint at heart

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=51.562865,-1.771371&spn=0.000859,0.002843&t=h&z=19

That last one is scary...

[rocketphish]

While I applaud the concept of making the space at the corner of Rideau Street and Colonel By Drive greener and more people-friendy, as usual with grand NCC visions, it puts form ahead of function. The end result of this vision will look great, but will ultimately be detrimental to many users of the space. The NCC seems incapable of designing spaces for all users.

Just think of the Western Parkway along the Ottawa River, which looks beautiful, but which in reality is a huge tract of sterile riverfront property that simply cuts off access to the river for most citizens (all but a few cyclists, walkers, beach-goers, and drivers who admire it from their car window). The only real winner in the Parkway project is the commuter, as this space is really just a fancy commuter corridor.


The NCC Vision Statement for the Rideau/Colonel By gateway node is:
"to reclaim this historic space and transform it into an icon of the Canadian experience on the Confederation Boulevard. The node will convey a significant Capital to the world and be representative of Canadian values, ideals and role on the world stage."

Later they elaborate: "a strategic place; a place for people; a place of arrival and dispersal reflecting its historic role as a crossroads and destination""

I suspect that the loser in this scenario will be the driver. Maybe it's only fair to balance out the Western Parkway commuter win?

I say this because the traffic flow reconfiguration appears to be ill-conceived. In the existing situation, there is a dedicated through lane from southbound MacKenzie Ave. across the ramp to Colonel By Drive. There is also a dedicated right-hand turn lane that moves traffic from eastbound Wellington/Elgin Streets onto the MacKenzie Ave. ramp and along to Colonel By Drive. Both of these traffic patterns keep drivers away from the intersection at Sussex/Rideau Streets. According to NCC traffic counts, these two routes carry a significant number of vehicles:



As previously mentioned, Scenario 3 seems to be the leading design proposal (http://www.canadascapital.gc.ca/data/2/rec_docs/15655_Presentation%20Mtg2.pdf), and its major feature is the complete removal of the MacKenzie Ave. ramp linkage to Colonel By Drive, and the problematic pedestrian underpass beneath it. Score a win for pedestrians. Here's what it could look like:



Unfortunately the aforementioned MacKenzie Ave. traffic must now cross the general eastbound Rideau Street flow and merge into a very short right-hand lane before making the turn onto Colonel By Drive. Throw-in the usually heavy pedestrian traffic that uses the crosswalks at the Sussex/Rideau intersection, and this just screams bottleneck to me.

Without some very well-timed traffic signals, and other measures, this intersection could become a traffic nightmare.

[Beatrix]

Colonel By will also be narrowed due to the expansion of the Convention Centre.

Along with the LRT tunnel (fingers crossed), perhaps this is all part of an overall plan to slow traffic in the area?

[Kitchissippi]

I think the problem is too much has been done to accommodate vehicular traffic in this area and maybe it is high time that pedestrians and cyclists are given priority.

Sussex and Mackenzie should be turned back to two way streets, eliminating the need for the Mackenzie-Colonel By connection. The configuration around the Peacekeeping monument would have to be re-jigged, but that area needs improvement and simplification, too.

When the transit tunnel gets built and the issue of massive amounts of buses having to cross downtown gets eliminated, they should just let the traffic situation in the core "fail" and become a deterrent for people wanting to take their cars downtown. For example it never ceases to amaze me how many stupid people still insist on driving around the ByWard Market during Canada Day.

[Rathgrith]

Someone should make sure the NCC doesn't put any trees there. Ottawa already has enough of them. And while the NCC has done a good job with parks like Confederation and Majors Hill.I want to see a public square that screams urban. Something like Dundas square would be nice, minus the ads. I'm thinking something like Trafalgar Square.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

...
It's also too bad that the patch of grass on the east side of the canal, north of Wellington, couldn't be better used, especially the part directly beside the Chateau/Portrait Gallery.

Would you suggest stairs so that people could access the locks from Colonel's Hill (Known as Major's Hill now, since the Major came to send Colonel By home, took over his house and then re-named the hill after himself - I guess rank has its privileges); or would you go with a full blown FUNICULAR? Funiculars seem popular with tourists and this would be mostly a tourist area.