The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Does anyone else doubt Peel Plaza is going to happen? I can't see the city getting the money together to built the police station and parking facility. The parking, while valuable to the city on a macro-scale, with not make enough money to pay for the structure - parking structures have payback periods of over 30 years.

I have some doubts.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Yeah, Ours was definitely earmarked for 55 million. So I guess that can stop all the rumours how their courthouse will be more. As well I guess that kills MonctonRads theory.
Woot.

Well boy do I feel sheepish now.

I guess I will have to revise my theory now: the Port City is getting a bigger courthouse because we all know that Saint Johners are a bunch of criminals

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorthing

Does anyone else doubt Peel Plaza is going to happen? I can't see the city getting the money together to built the police station and parking facility. The parking, while valuable to the city on a macro-scale, with not make enough money to pay for the structure - parking structures have payback periods of over 30 years.

I have some doubts.

I'm pretty confident that it will happen, although I have no idea where the city is going to get the money given the terrible state of the pension fund ($146 million unfunded liability in 2008??) I guess my reasoning is that the courthouse is going ahead 100% and the city feels that building a new police station next-door at the same time is a once in a lifetime opportunity, so they'll stop at nothing to see it completed. The parking garage seems more in doubt, which is probably why the city has been so actively pursuing alternative parking plans, active transport routes, etc. because they want to pay for as small a parking structure as they have to.

[kwajo]

Some good news:

News Release 
 
For Immediate Release  
February 2, 2009 
 
City of Saint John “Two Steps Closer” to Obtaining Goal of Leading the Nation 
In Sustainability Initiatives 
 
City tops Atlantic Canadian “small cities” category 
 
(Saint John) The City of Saint John has moved up two places – to third – in the “small cities” category in the annual 
Corporate Knights Most Sustainable Cities in Canada list. Corporate Knights Inc. is an independent Canadian‐based 
media company focused on promoting and reinforcing sustainable development in Canada. 
The comprehensive ranking identifies Canadian cities whose practices leave the smallest environmental footprint 
possible and create a healthy, thriving population.  In 2008, Saint John placed fifth in its category. 
 
“We are making progress, small steps,” said Andrew Beckett, Deputy City Manager, Programs and Priorities. 
“Council’s Priorities, the Integrated Community Sustainability Plan and the work of City staff and professional and 
community organizations are leading us on the path to our goal.” 
 
From the issue: 
Saint John (5.60) provided an extensive report on its sustainability initiatives. The city has held over 25 public 
meetings in the past six months aimed at addressing the community concerns relating to sustainable development, 
and about one in 20 citizens actively participated in their community visioning process. Saint John has recently 
begun work on its $88 million harbour cleanup, and the use of grey water has been included in its new water 
strategy. Of all the cities studied, Saint John’s citizens have the most trust in their neighbors. 
Opportunity to improve: Saint John’s Social Well‐Being score was brought down by high obesity rates and a low 
percentage of the population with university degrees.   

In the survey response, the City spoke of its efforts to reduce obesity, including adding cooking classes to its 
community centres’  schedules,  adding over 26 km of bike lanes to streets last year and a renewed commitment to 
recreational infrastructure.  
“It really isn’t about rankings in surveys, although this is great news,” said Mayor Ivan Court. “Developing and 
adopting best practices will lead to a better quality of life for everyone who lives here now, and who will live here 
in the future. We are committed to our citizens.” 
Corporate Knights examined 17 cities, including Canada’s top ten cities by population and the largest city in each 
province and territory. This year’s ranking was strengthened by a three‐member national advisory board, 
composed of lead advisor The Natural Step Canada (TNS) and advisors Greening Greater Toronto (GGT) and Smart 
Growth BC (SGBC). 
Cities were assessed based on five categories: Ecological Integrity, Economic Security, Governance and 
Empowerment, Infrastructure and Built Environment, and Social Well‐Being. Publicly available information, 
including Statistics Canada data, and a city survey conducted by Corporate Knights were used to determine city 
scores. 
 
Media Contacts  
Nancy Moar             
Communications Manager 
City of Saint John  
648‐3715 

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

Does anyone else doubt Peel Plaza is going to happen? I can't see the city getting the money together to built the police station and parking facility. The parking, while valuable to the city on a macro-scale, with not make enough money to pay for the structure - parking structures have payback periods of over 30 years.

I have some doubts.

From C94 News today...

[Peel Plaza One Step Ahead]

09:50:12

Peel Plaza developments are moving a little further ahead down the path to reality--- first and second reading for re-zonings North of Union Street were passed at common council as were the municipal plan amendments which are necessary for the project's go ahead.

The project will also be receiving funding as part of the 2009 Capital Budget approved last night--- the Justice Complex and Parking Garage structures are to both receive 1 and a quarter million dollars this year.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Peel Plaza developments are moving a little further ahead down the path to reality--- first and second reading for re-zonings North of Union Street were passed at common council

Being that this city council has already demonstrated that they will go to illogical ends for this projects - i.e. paying a property owner on Union Street for his building, then giving him another - I'm not surprised they passed the zoning ammendments.

When it comes to paying for this, then we'll see who really supports it and what they are willing to cut back on for a cop shop and garage.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

Does anyone else doubt Peel Plaza is going to happen? I can't see the city getting the money together to built the police station and parking facility. The parking, while valuable to the city on a macro-scale, with not make enough money to pay for the structure - parking structures have payback periods of over 30 years.

I have some doubts.

I have little doubt that this will move forward. The majority of the public has already accepted the project and associated costs. The city actually has a very reasonable debt load, especially compared to the other cities in this province who are looking for big municipal projects.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

Does anyone else doubt Peel Plaza is going to happen? I can't see the city getting the money together to built the police station and parking facility. The parking, while valuable to the city on a macro-scale, with not make enough money to pay for the structure - parking structures have payback periods of over 30 years.

I have some doubts.

I have no doubt the project will go ahead in it's entirity. After all the work done to make it happen, it would be totally irresponsible to let it slide at this point. Though I know council has no monopoly on good judgement, it would be stupid to stop now.

There are no indicators to say anyone is considering a delay of any sort. In addition, the parking garage is a necessary part of Peel Plaza,

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I have little doubt that this will move forward. The majority of the public has already accepted the project and associated costs. The city actually has a very reasonable debt load, especially compared to the other cities in this province who are looking for big municipal projects.

We should rack up some debt working on our culture and recreation needs - where were are far behind many cities.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

We should rack up some debt working on our culture and recreation needs - where were are far behind many cities.

I dont think I necessarily agree. What would you like to see in Saint John that is available in other NB cities? We have by far the nicest theatre and I would guess the two largest in the province. I am not too familiar with recreation so maybe that is what you are referring to?

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I dont think I necessarily agree. What would you like to see in Saint John that is available in other NB cities? We have by far the nicest theatre and I would guess the two largest in the province. I am not too familiar with recreation so maybe that is what you are referring to?

I know from my perspective I feel the city needs to spend money on improving the green spaces and parks we have. Rockwood Park, Shamrock Park, Little River Reservoir, Dominion Park, Tucker Park, Seaside Park, Lancaster Centennial Park, Riverview Park, Forest Hills Park, not to mention all the city squares (King and Queen in the Uptown & Lower West; St. Peters in the North End; Public Gardens) and playgrounds, the city has thousands of acres of parkland and a shoestring budget to maintain them.

So while the city has a massive amount of parkland and cannot possibly afford to make all of it world-class, we need to invest in making some of them into destination-level attractions and spend more on a select number of smaller ones so that Saint John's sprawling residential neighbourhoods have local green spaces. We also need to improve connectivity between parks to aid in intra-city wildlife migration but to foster active transportation so that people can walk or bike to the park or beach, rather than driving everywhere.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by kwajo

We also need to improve connectivity between parks to aid in intra-city wildlife migration but to foster active transportation so that people can walk or bike to the park or beach, rather than driving everywhere.

I totally agree.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I dont think I necessarily agree. What would you like to see in Saint John that is available in other NB cities? We have by far the nicest theatre and I would guess the two largest in the province. I am not too familiar with recreation so maybe that is what you are referring to?

Arenas, racketball/squash facilities come to mind. I know Arenas are in short supply with Simonds having closed now years ago and not being replaced. And the facilities that are left are a large snowstorm away from having roofs collapsing. Anyone know when the last arena was built? With the Y being demolished I don't believe there is any facility for people to play squash, racketball, handball anywhere in the area.

I can't comment on ballfields and soccer fields, are they in adequate supply?

[davehook_729]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

I totally agree.

They need to reserve right-of-ways through new subdivisions and start integrating trail networks and linear parks so that residents don't have to walk/cycle on the street. This would help promote more active lifestyles and provide some green buffers!

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by davehook_729

They need to reserve right-of-ways through new subdivisions and start integrating trail networks and linear parks so that residents don't have to walk/cycle on the street. This would help promote more active lifestyles and provide some green buffers!

Luckily this is already something being worked on and there are some preliminary concept maps floating around as to how this could be accomplished (at least in the Eastern portions of the city, not so much on the West Side). Now finding money for it is another story, but there are opportunities to get industry to pay for some of these linkages, which would make the projects no-brainers for the city.

[Wrightguy0]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

We should rack up some debt working on our culture and recreation needs - where were are far behind many cities.

Let me assure you,we at the Saint John Theatre Company are working hard to make sure our building at 112 Princess street is completed, that will make some contribution to the arts community.

As someone in the arts community I can assure you this city is not lacking culture, We have three very good performance stages, One at the Arts center near peel plaza, The Oland theater at the museum, and the stage at the Imperial. Saint John also has many fine restaurants and bars in the uptownand There are plenty of galleries around Trinity Royal. Yes we may not have as much culture as Fredericton, but that's a town with two universities and is the seat of the provincial government.

Considering we're a Blue collar town just coming out of a slump and trying to find a new identity for the 21st century I'd say we have a good amount of Culture.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by Wrightguy0

Let me assure you,we at the Saint John Theatre Company are working hard to make sure our building at 112 Princess street is completed, that will make some contribution to the arts community.

As someone in the arts community I can assure you this city is not lacking culture, We have three very good performance stages, One at the Arts center near peel plaza, The Oland theater at the museum, and the stage at the Imperial. Saint John also has many fine restaurants and bars in the uptownand There are plenty of galleries around Trinity Royal. Yes we may not have as much culture as Fredericton, but that's a town with two universities and is the seat of the provincial government.

Considering we're a Blue collar town just coming out of a slump and trying to find a new identity for the 21st century I'd say we have a good amount of Culture.

Well said! I couldn't agree more. I have noticed many more "gallery crawls" and the like around the city over the last few months. I lived in Fredericton for a number of years and I see more culture here than I found in Fredericton. Our market actually carries differant foods and not just samosa's.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by davehook_729

They need to reserve right-of-ways through new subdivisions and start integrating trail networks and linear parks so that residents don't have to walk/cycle on the street. This would help promote more active lifestyles and provide some green buffers!

I think this is a nice idea but until the masses are willing to give up their automobiles in exchange for their bikes this is not realistic. It is happening in large cities with traffic congestion problems, but those traffic levels will never hit any Maritime city.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I think this is a nice idea but until the masses are willing to give up their automobiles in exchange for their bikes this is not realistic. It is happening in large cities with traffic congestion problems, but those traffic levels will never hit any Maritime city.

Back in the Summer when gas was hitting record high prices, a lot of Saint Johners were looking to alternative transportation as a way of saving money. Bus ridership took off, and I noticed a lot more bikers than I have ever seen in this city. Sure the price of a litre of petrol has gone down, but everyone knows it is a short-term decline and that $1.50/l gas will be back at some point in the future, so we need to be prepared for the next wave of people trying to reduce the crunch of high gas costs.

Getting people to give up their car for a bicycle is all about reducing barriers - someone might like to bike to work but as soon as they start thinking about where to park or about how bad biking is on a road like Rothesay Avenue, then they'll just hop in their car instead. Through the city's bike parking planning and the 26 km (possibly wrong on the stats) of new bike lanes added just in 2008, we are working to reduce those barriers and make biking a more legitimate transit option for our population.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I think this is a nice idea but until the masses are willing to give up their automobiles in exchange for their bikes this is not realistic. It is happening in large cities with traffic congestion problems, but those traffic levels will never hit any Maritime city.

I wasn't convinced of the "build it and they will come" approach until I saw what happened with Harbour Passage. I don't remember many people walking around parking lots at the waterfront previously, but it is quite amazing how many people take advantage of getting off the street to go take a walk during nice weather now.

Without planning for these corridors, even if they aren't build out immediately, the costs escalate drastically later, or the capability isn't available at all because you're not going to buy 100 houses in order to build a bike lane.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by Wrightguy0

Considering we're a Blue collar town just coming out of a slump and trying to find a new identity for the 21st century I'd say we have a good amount of Culture.

I wasn't meaning to insult the cultural amenities we have. I was more trying to insult the concept of spending so much on a cop shop.

We have theatres and arts organizations doing a lot, and this should be celebrated.

I think we lack a strong outdoor venue. I loved seeing Shakespear on the commons and dig it in the Gothic Arches too, but it would be great if we had a nice outdoor stage at Rockwood and if the one proposed for Rainbow Park gets installed.

We have a lot of heritage buildings, but little access to our heritage. The museum is great, and so is the Barbour's Store, but I think a public space that celebrates the Trinity Royal area is a good idea. The panels on the great fire and some buildings should be expanded upon in some way.

We should also try to pull a celtic tiger and have some sort of housing program that encourages artists and creative minds to locate in the city.