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  #8641  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by shakman View Post
Also remember, Utah is still predominately conservative just like me.
Yeah, well Salt Lake City isn't.

And these places are pretty rare in this city.

CCC and SugarHouse aren't the same, so no, I don't agree with your point at all.
     
     
  #8642  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban_logic View Post
I think the struggle might be mutual. SLC has a very sizable "liberal" crowd, as well as an equal-sized "conservative" population. Whenever I talk to "liberals" from the area, they say that the "conservative" LDS Church is making its presence more pronouced by building CCC and they feel like they are loosing the "battle". When I talk to "conservatives", they complain that the "liberals" are taking over and that they are being pushed out to the suburbs. They say that they are loosing the "battle". It looks to me like a culture war that isn't going away anytime soon. I think that both groups will retain a strong presence for decades to come.

Note: I put quotations on the words "liberal" and "conservative" because those are rather vague terms that don't necessarily describe everyone in SLC. Generally, these terms refer to lifestyles rather than political affiliations in an SLC context.
I think also that living around lots of other people simply develops a more "liberal" live and let live attitude in people. It's not like there is some infestation of liberals overrunning the city, it's that people in Salt Lake are becoming less conservative as they are exposed to other ways of life. CCC isn't going to stop this trend... if anything it will be good for those conservative people that move in because the urban lifestyle might open their minds a bit.
     
     
  #8643  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 8:57 PM
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I don't think CCC is intended in anyway to battle the "liberal uprising." It's a smart move for downtown, and thereby a smart move for the LDS church. Here's one so-called liberal who has no problem with the LDS church presence downtown.
And I hope and believe that the sad hole (literal and metephorical) left behind by Port-o-call will be filled elsewhere. There is an ever increasing demand for night-life in SLC, and someone will step up to the opportunity. Regrettably, there will be no replacement for the Shubrick building itself.
     
     
  #8644  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:01 PM
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YWCA may get cash to expand
Shelter » The Salt Lake City Council may provide a $500,000 loan for two new buildings.



http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_11611733
     
     
  #8645  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DMTower View Post
I think also that living around lots of other people simply develops a more "liberal" live and let live attitude in people. It's not like there is some infestation of liberals overrunning the city, it's that people in Salt Lake are becoming less conservative as they are exposed to other ways of life. CCC isn't going to stop this trend... if anything it will be good for those conservative people that move in because the urban lifestyle might open their minds a bit.
Well, one can still live a "conservative" lifestyle and uphold their "conservative" values and still be accepting of other people and lifestyles. I wouldn't call this "liberal", but "open-minded". "Liberals", too, need to be open-minded and accepting of people with more "conservative" lifestyles. I tend to hear "liberal" associated with "open-minded", though that is not necessarily true. One can be just as easily "conservative" and "open-minded" as "liberal" and "open-minded".

We mustn't let the severly right-swung RNC exemplify "conservatism". Just because the DNC has come much more to the center of American Politics and is more popular, doesn't mean we can credit "liberalism" as being "open-minded". The two major political parties in the U.S. only represent a small point on the Liberal-Conservative political scale. These terms are much broader, and most people aren't just one or the other, but a mixture of both. Just because some LDS people are judgemental and intollorant of other lifestyles doesn't mean all are. Just because some "liberals" think they know everything, doesn't mean that all do. By asserting that as a person becomes more "liberal", s/he becomes more "open-minded" is not accurate. One who becomes more accepting of other views becomes more "open-minded" regardless of political affiliation or lifestyle preference.

This kinda reminds me of a couple political experiences I had not too long ago (I know we're talking lifestyle here, but I can't resist)

*Story time*

In regard to politics, I have run into intolorant people in both parties. Once I was talking with an older man identified as "Republican". He told me that he knew I was "Republican". When I said that I wasn't, he explained, "Well, you must be. You are patriotic, right?" I responded, "Yes...". He then informed me, "Then you must be Republican!"

Once I was talking politics to a young man self-identified as a "Democrat". He told me that, "You are a Democrat, you just don't think you are." I explained that I certainly wasn't. He then asked, "You believe in the right to protest, don't you?" Wondering what he would say if I said "no", I did so. He muttered, "Then you must be a Republican."

In both situations, both men were equally closed-minded. According to these two, I am a Republican because I am "patriotic" and "don't believe in the right to protest". I do happen to believe in this right, but I thought it would be funny if I played along with his perception of things

Last edited by Urban_logic; Feb 3, 2009 at 9:30 PM.
     
     
  #8646  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:05 PM
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Do you think gay couples should be able to get married? Just testing to see how "open minded" you actually are.
     
     
  #8647  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:19 PM
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Come on everybody this is getting WAY off course and we all know where it is leading so how about we stop RIGHT HERE!
     
     
  #8648  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:25 PM
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These conversations are all interconnected. Just because you have stated that we are getting WAY off topic, doesn't mean we actually are. These conversations are relevant to urban life. The built environment directly affects social behavior.


Budget cuts threaten folk arts program

Quote:
The Utah Arts Council's Folk Arts Program was considered a model of its kind soon after it was established in 1976, and remains one of the nation's best.
Now, with the economy and state budget under strain, those who worked decades to build the program fear it will vanish under proposed cuts.
http://www.sltrib.com/arts/ci_11614594
     
     
  #8649  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by scottharding View Post
I don't think CCC is intended in anyway to battle the "liberal uprising." It's a smart move for downtown, and thereby a smart move for the LDS church. Here's one so-called liberal who has no problem with the LDS church presence downtown.
And I hope and believe that the sad hole (literal and metephorical) left behind by Port-o-call will be filled elsewhere. There is an ever increasing demand for night-life in SLC, and someone will step up to the opportunity. Regrettably, there will be no replacement for the Shubrick building itself.
Port'o Call closes and Jam is just Burgeoning, don't worry we will have more bars opening in and around SLC.
     
     
  #8650  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanboy View Post


Do you think gay couples should be able to get married? Just testing to see how "open minded" you actually are.
Leave it to Urbanboy to bring up one of the most polorizing topics of our day. I'll leave that for you to figure out

I think that we could all become more open-minded. It's not a level anyone can fully achieve, but it's something we can all continuously strive for. It's kinda like urban development - there never truley is and end point to innovation, as there is never an end point to open-mindedness.
     
     
  #8651  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:44 PM
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Ok

Personally I don't see why its so polarizing, it's only fair. In most states, these great couples are being taxed more than their heterosexual counterparts, but are actually being represented less, not more. Not equal, but less than.
     
     
  #8652  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood. View Post
Port'o Call closes and Jam is just Burgeoning, don't worry we will have more bars opening in and around SLC.
Jam? I haven't heard of this one. What is it? Where is it?
     
     
  #8653  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:53 PM
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Club Jam 751 North 300 West Salt Lake City, UT 84102

http://www.jamslc.com/


Last edited by urbanboy; Feb 3, 2009 at 10:11 PM.
     
     
  #8654  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanboy View Post
Ok

Personally I don't see why its so polarizing, it's only fair. In most states, these great couples are being taxed more than their heterosexual counterparts, but are actually being represented less, not more. Not equal, but less than.
I don't think we will ever fully understand the reasons behind polorization - it's a natural human tendency. We do not have to relinquish our views to de-polorize. We just need to understand both sides.
     
     
  #8655  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban_logic View Post
I don't think we will ever fully understand the reasons behind polorization - it's a natural human tendency. We do not have to relinquish our views to de-polorize. We just need to understand both sides.
I think that in some cases two sides can never see eye to eye we need to realize that and learn to respect others points of view.

So any new news on Liberty & symphony at the Gateway?
     
     
  #8656  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood. View Post
I think that in some cases two sides can never see eye to eye we need to realize that and learn to respect others points of view.
To understand and agree are two completely different things. I think we all can work to understand each other - that doesn't mean agree with each other. Just agree to disagree For example, I don't at all agree with Urbanboy that cars are out to destroy human kind, but I can see where he's coming from. I recognize that his concerns regarding cars are valid concerns, but I am not concerned with some of them.

In fact, developing an understanding for the opposing side of your particular argument can even show you why you are right - or wrong.
     
     
  #8657  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban_logic View Post
To understand and agree are two completely different things. I think we all can work to understand each other - that doesn't mean agree with each other. Just agree to disagree
That's kinda what I was shooting for
     
     
  #8658  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood. View Post
That's kinda what I was shooting for
It is possible to reason with each other without being unreasonable!
     
     
  #8659  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban_logic View Post
It is possible to reason with each other without being unreasonable!
No, I meant what you said was what I was trying to say.
     
     
  #8660  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanboy View Post


Club Jam 751 North 300 West Salt Lake City, UT 84102

http://www.jamslc.com/


JAM is a really nice, fun beer bar. I had my b-day party there because it's in my neighborhood. It's a really cool, down-tempo atmosphere.
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