AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[electricron]

Originally Posted by PartyLine

The light rail in Houston isn't all that much you look at the map for it and it only goes like around downtown,the museum district and medical center not shure if it goes to Intercontental Airport or not or the uptown/galleria area as far as I know it doesn't yet.

Houston's Metro light rail doesn''t go to either Airport, nor the Galleria area yet. They have plans to get to the Galleria area, but not to either Airport.

The idea that different rail, bus, and highway systems are competing against one another seems wrong to me. While I'm aware that there is limited transportation funding available, they are spent on corridors one corridor at a time. The correct solution for each corridor can be one or several solutions.

Again, look at Dallas for an example. Along the North Central Corridor, Dallas chose to expand North Central Expressway to just 8 lanes and build a closely paralleling light rail line. Along the Stemmons Freeway Corridor, Dallas has chosen expanding Stemmons Freeway to 12 lanes (of which 2 lanes are reversing HOV) and build a closely paralleling light rail and commuter rail lines. Along north LBJ Freeway, Dallas has chosen expanding LBJ to 14 lanes ( of which 6 lanes are HOV in a tunnel). Each corridor was determined individually.

As the rail lines reach further away from downtown, so do the number of passengers. DART is planning a commuter line between Plano and DFW Airport, because there aren't enough passengers to support building a light rail line. In the far future, when funding becomes available and passenger numbers rise, I wouldn't be surprised to see DART lay light rail tracks next to the TRE line and build more frequent stations between Dallas and Fort Worth.

As for Austin, there isn't much room along Guadeloupe to add a double track light rail line without removing traffic lanes. Therefore, it appears to me that a streetcar line on it will be more appropriate. The voters in the CapMetro service area vetoed the earlier light rail plan. I might add, the voters will get a chance to vote on all CapMetro rail plans in the future too.
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Latest CapMetro news:
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...umbs_up_t.html

The Transit Working Group Monday gave its approval, on an 11-1 vote, to the 15.3-mile, $625 million downtown light rail plan. Technically, the board was approving it conceptually and saying in effect, now go ahead and figure out how this might be paid for. The working group had done a similar thing several weeks ago with the proposed commuter rail line from downtown to Elgin.

In the emerging parlance of rail here, the city of Austin is the “sponsor” of the downtown rail project, not Capital Metro. That would mean, in theory, that the city would be in charge of finding the money and would make the decisions. Capital Metro, however, would be at the table in some meaningful way and might even end up operating such a line once it opened.

So, what does this mean in the larger scheme of things? Well, nothing definitive. In the end, what matters most with both rail plans is finding the money, and that will be no easy thing in either case. Capital Metro doesn’t have enough money to do all or even most of either rail project. So others — the city, the county, smaller cities, developers, Uncle Sam — will have to kick in.
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Maybe Austin's transit dreams are larger than Austin's purse?

[M1EK]

Streetcar on Guadalupe would be an absolute disaster, as will Rapid Bus. The stretch in front of UT is severely congested for many intersections ahead at any given point during the afternoon rush.

You have no clue what you're talking about, as usual - the voters OF AUSTIN voted light rail up, even with a rigged election (forced early on Cap Metro by Mike Krusee to coincide with W's first run, guaranteed to drag out more suburbanite anti-transit folks). It lost, overall, because of the inclusion of places like Leander in our service area.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by PartyLine

The light rail in Houston isn't all that much you look at the map for it and it only goes like around downtown,the museum district and medical center not shure if it goes to Intercontental Airport or not or the uptown/galleria area as far as I know it doesn't yet.

And yet they have higher ridership than almost any other light rail line in the country - more than 45,000 per day.

Houston did it right - start with light rail that hits some major activity centers, then expand with longer stretches of light rail that can hit some more spots (with/without transfers); then and only then screw around with commuter rail.

[alexjon]

As for Austin, there isn't much room along Guadeloupe to add a double track light rail line without removing traffic lanes. Therefore, it appears to me that a streetcar line on it will be more appropriate. The voters in the CapMetro service area vetoed the earlier light rail plan. I might add, the voters will get a chance to vote on all CapMetro rail plans in the future too.

Which people forget, pretending there's rafts of money floating around the sky that will come down and bless them even if nobody wants to come along on the idea.

[texastarkus]

Toll roads

Texas 45 SE tollway to open in April
Decision to open with perhaps one flyover bridge still under construction explains change in road, which completes eastern bypass of Austin
By Ben Wear

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF


Saturday, January 31, 2009

The Texas 45 Southeast tollway, which will complete a 56-mile bypass around the metro area's east side, will open in April, officials said Friday. That would be about three months earlier than an estimate made just a couple of months ago.

However, the 7.4-mile connecting road from the Texas 130 tollway to Interstate 35 south of Austin probably will open without one of its three flyover bridges to I-35, the one that would take people driving north on the interstate to the eastbound tollway lanes. Tim Weight, director of construction for the Texas Department of Transportation's Austin office, said that final bridge probably will open about a month later.

Debuting in this somewhat incomplete form explains the last-minute improvement in the schedule, Weight said. The earlier prediction of a summer opening was based on having the road 100 percent complete.

At the tollway's east end, drivers on Texas 130 will move seamlessly to Texas 45 Southeast, and vice versa, without having to leave the main highway lanes. Weight said there will be three points to enter and exit the road between I-35 and Texas 130: Turnersville Road, Wright Road and FM 1625.

Mark Tomlinson, director of TxDOT's turnpike division, said toll rates have not been determined yet for the road, which was built entirely with tax dollars rather than the typical mix for toll roads of borrowed money and cash on hand.

Officials in the past have said the cost to drivers would be comparable to tolls on TxDOT's three other Central Texas tollways — now 11 cents a mile for people with toll tags — and Tomlinson said that's probably still the case.

That would equate to about an 80-cent toll for those with a toll tag, and about 33 percent more for people without a tag who get a bill in the mail. The road will be "all electronic," meaning there will be no way to pay with cash.

TxDOT did not charge tolls for a couple of months when it opened its previous tollways here. Tomlinson said that will probably be the case with Texas 45 Southeast as well.

[email protected], 445-3698

[electricron]

Originally Posted by M1EK

Streetcar on Guadalupe would be an absolute disaster, as will Rapid Bus. The stretch in front of UT is severely congested for many intersections ahead at any given point during the afternoon rush.

You have no clue what you're talking about, as usual - the voters OF AUSTIN voted light rail up, even with a rigged election (forced early on Cap Metro by Mike Krusee to coincide with W's first run, guaranteed to drag out more suburbanite anti-transit folks). It lost, overall, because of the inclusion of places like Leander in our service area.

(First paragraph) Exactly why any mass transit project is needed on Guadalupe. All mass transit projects can carry more passengers than automobiles in one street lane per direction.
(Second paragraph) If CapMetro desires to be an Austin only transit agency, they shouldn't accept tax revenues from other cities. But CapMetro does. The political pressure is too high to limit mass transit projects to just the inner city (Austin). CapMetro depends upon funding from every member city. To exclude other cities in projects, they shouldn't allow other cities to join.Sure, Austin precincts voted for the original light rail project. But CapMetro had to include all the other member cities in the vote for funding. Since the original light rail project didn't stretch light rail to them, why are you surprised they voted against it?
Taxpayers will tax themselves more for extra services, but few will tax themselves more for less.

Third question than needs answering, that none has explained to me?
How can there be room for light rail down Guadalupe, but not room for streetcars?

[SecretAgentMan]

Originally Posted by electricron

(Third question than needs answering, that none has explained to me?
How can there be room for light rail down Guadalupe, but not room for streetcars?

The reality is that there really isn't sufficient room on Guadalupe for light rail, especially between Dean Keaton and 30th. Prior to 2000, it hadn't been studied in detail. When it was studied in 2002, it was determined it would require major reworking of the traffic patterns and some minor impact on adjacent properties. Since then, several large buildings on both sides of the street through the s-curve have been built right up to the ROW, making it even more difficult.

Streetcars, even if they were in dedicated lanes, would work better because they are shorter and have smaller turning radii. This means the length of tangent track around platforms would be shorter, the curved sections could be shorter, and the tangent sections between reversing curves could be longer, allowing higher speed operation.

The lower passenger capacity of streetcars means they would have to have shorter headways to achieve similar ridership as LRT, which would be more expensive to operate, but provide better service.

[Kropotkin]

Has MetroRapid's build out been moved up?

I've noted that on the FAQ for it on the Capmetro website that they says the #1 MetroRapid will start in 2010 with the #3 in 2011.

http://allsystemsgo.capmetro.org/cap...rapid-qa.shtml

In the past, such in the presentation last summer, the time frame was 2011 for both routes starting at the same time.

http://www.capmetro.org/docs/MetroRa...resenation.pdf

(see page 18)

[paulsjv]

Anyone seen this site? It has a ton of old pictures of Austin's old highways.

http://www.texasfreeway.com/Austin/h...c_photos.shtml

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by electricron

(First paragraph) Exactly why any mass transit project is needed on Guadalupe. All mass transit projects can carry more passengers than automobiles in one street lane per direction.
(Second paragraph) If CapMetro desires to be an Austin only transit agency, they shouldn't accept tax revenues from other cities. But CapMetro does. The political pressure is too high to limit mass transit projects to just the inner city (Austin). CapMetro depends upon funding from every member city. To exclude other cities in projects, they shouldn't allow other cities to join.Sure, Austin precincts voted for the original light rail project. But CapMetro had to include all the other member cities in the vote for funding. Since the original light rail project didn't stretch light rail to them, why are you surprised they voted against it?
Taxpayers will tax themselves more for extra services, but few will tax themselves more for less.

Third question than needs answering, that none has explained to me?
How can there be room for light rail down Guadalupe, but not room for streetcars?

Dear genius:

1. The problem isn't that other people are getting rail; the problem is that central Austin isn't getting rail at all and never will.

2. There isn't room for reserved guideway on Guadalupe without cutting down auto traffic to one lane, one way, in one particularly bad stretch. Streetcars in shared guideway are moronic, especially here.

3. Thanks to commuter rail, there is no longer a prospect of high enough ridership on any such light rail OR streetcar line there to justify taking away 3 out of the 4 general purpose lanes in that difficult stretch.

4. Streetcar on Speedway is a fantasy - UT won't accept it in any way, shape, or form.

Dear anonymous coward:

Yes, reserved guideway was going to be difficult on that one tough stretch of Guadalupe. But it will now be completely impossible, since the drop-off in passengers involved in any transfer at Crestview would mean we'd never have enough people on either LRT or streetcar to remotely justify taking away even 2 out of the 4 lanes, much less 3.

He's referring to a design that involved running one direction of Guadalupe traffic down a side street each way - partially to allow for the bike lanes, by the way, bike lanes that don't even exist on the current roadway - this is on the jog between 27th and 29th. I have to admit I never bothered to check back then if the elimination of those would allow for another general purpose lane to be kept. My own crackpot plan would have streetcar vehicles running on shared guideway from 24th north on Whitis, then behind the Villas on Guadalupe; closing of most of this to non-local motor vehicle traffic - mitigating most of the awfulness of shared guideway. But we'll never get there now, anyways, since the starter plan is foundering and most of the idiots like electicron are thrilled Capital Metro is instead wasting their time and our money on yet another useless commuter line.

[PartyLine]

I don't know why you have to call people idots or coward or whatever just because they don't agree or something.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by PartyLine

I don't know why you have to call people idots or coward or whatever just because they don't agree or something.

Yeah, I don't understand that either. Isn't there some moderation rules that prohibit personal attacks? Arguments should speak for themselves, and this kind of name-calling only seems to serve the purpose of making people with opposing views just quit and go somewhere else, rather than sticking around and continuing the dialog...

[M1EK]

SecretAgentMan is trying to assert insider knowledge but doesn't have the guts to put his name behind it, even though he's put my name out there and attacked it before.

electricon is a shill for a DMU company, supposedly.

[KevinFromTexas]

Yes, but name calling isn't going to get your point across, M1EK.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by M1EK

SecretAgentMan is trying to assert insider knowledge but doesn't have the guts to put his name behind it, even though he's put my name out there and attacked it before.

electricon is a shill for a DMU company, supposedly.

That maybe true, and I don't disagree with your points. But haven't you made the argument that for every 1 person that posts, there are 1000s of lurkers which just read and take the post as fact? I just get the feeling that for all the thousands that might read this thread, there are maybe 10 or so that might want to post a response, but 9 of them don't because they are turned off by the personal attacks. That might serve your purpose just fine, but it's no good for the forum.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by M1EK

SecretAgentMan is trying to assert insider knowledge but doesn't have the guts to put his name behind it, even though he's put my name out there and attacked it before.

electricon is a shill for a DMU company, supposedly.

You're assuming again. I'm not a shill for a DMU company.

CapMetro barely raised enough money to build what they could afford, the DMU commuter rail Red Line to Leander. They don't have the money for the DMU commuter rail Blue Line to Manor nor extended it to Elgin without financial assisstance. Where do you think they could raise the money for the far more expensive Light Rail lines?
CapMetro is supporting by a 1% sales tax from Austin, Jonestown, Lago Vista, Leander, Manor, San Leanna, portions of Travis and Williamson Co.

Austin sales tax revenues for 2008 was 11,184,145.33, down 7.19% from 2007.
Jonestown sales tax revenues for 2008 was 6,145.17 , down 4.35% from 2007.
Lago Vista sales tax revenues for 2008 was 18,128.22, up 1.84% from 2007.
Leander sales tax revenues for 2008 was 107,181.80, up 2.63% from 2007.
Manor sales tax revenues for 2008 was 28,647.94, down 14.65% from 2007.
You're not going to build many miles of light rail with just $11+ million revenues being raised yearly.

Let's compare that to Dart. Dart is supported by a 1% sales tax from Addision, Carrolton, Dallas, Farmers Branch, Garland, Irving, Plano, Richardson, and Rowlett, plus a few other cities that will not be getting rail because they are so small.
Addision sales tax revenues for 2008 was 753,408.02, down 6.67% from 2007.
Carrolton sales tax revenues for 2008 was 1,590,509.63, up 30.92% from 2007.
Dallas sales tax revenues for 2008 was 16,849,424.43, up 8.55% from 2007.
Farmers Branch sales tax revenues for 2008 was 1,031,882.68, down 8.67% from 2007.
Garland sales tax revenues for 2008 was 1,716,851.07, down 9.02% from 2007.
Irving sales tax revenues for 2008 was 3,932,510.51, down 13.39% from 2007.
Plano sales tax revenues for 2008 was 4,868,240.96, down 17.08% from 2007.
Richardson sales tax revenues for 2008 was 1,555,149.30, up 0.47% from 2007.
Rowlett sales tax revenues for 2008 was 437,284.40, down 14.37% from 2007.
Some cities revenues were up and some were down for 2008.
None-the-less, they collectively raised almost $33 million for Dart last year. Dart has been collecting sales taxes from these cities for over 25 years. Add Federal subsidies and locally collected fares, Dart raises significantly (3 times) more revenues than CapMetro. Even so, over 25 years, Dart has built just 45 miles of light rail, and will be building another 45 miles before 2018.

To build 30+ miles of light rail to Leander from downtown Austin, CapMetro will need up to 3 times the duration (50-75 years), assuming the same levels of service for bus and rail.

I still believe CapMetro needs to look at cheaper alternatives when it comes to rail transit.

[alexjon]

Oh no, logic!

[M1EK]

Again, with the assertation of knowledge but with ludicrous errors in fact.

The commuter line to Elgin is called the Green Line, and there was a financing scheme, based on the 1% sales tax, for the 2000 LRT line (which, just like many other starts, assumed roughly 50% federal participation). Of course, now that commuter rail has come along, it's impossible - both technically and politically, but that doesn't change the fact that they clearly had enough long-term cash to get it done in 2000 (plan implicitly approved by the Feds - including the overview of the financials).

Oh no, logic!

[rhoby13]

I'm so confused...What are we even arguing about now?

[M1EK]

electricon insists that DMUs are the way to go - because they're cheap - even though they can't run directly to where people actually want to go, thus requiring transfers, which, my argument, hardly any choice commuters will tolerate, since we're not and never will be Manhattan.

He insists Austin could never have afforded light rail and can't now, despite the fact that the 2000 LRT proposal had a valid financing plan that matched what other successful light rail starts of similar vintage had managed to achieve.

Both he and alexjon insist that streetcars running in shared guideway are good enough to fill in the gaps (to hit the parts of town that any saner city would have served FIRST with rail transit). Which, for anybody who has ridden a bus by UT knows, is ludicrous. SecretAgentMan, who insists he knows lots of stuff that I don't but won't identify himself while in the process of attacking my credibility, at least appears to understand that shared-lane operation there would be incredibly stupid.