Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Future Mayor]

One positive about the reinstating of the road projects is, that if they are ready to roll and ready to go out to bid they could be eligible for the proposed stimulus package, (not the social program funding part, since those do NOTHING to stimulate the economy ) ok back on track.

The stimulus money has to be implemented on the designated projects within 90 days, if those projects don't start the state has 90 days to put the money into different projects and after that 90 days it goes back to the feds for another round of billing. So if states that are having organizational issues aren't on the ball we could have a chance of bidding for their money at day 181.

Another positive about the transportation projects budget being reinstated is that the jobs it will create will help to pull the state out of the recession a little faster by providing jobs and tax income to the state.

[shakman]

Would Utah's Government resort to toll roads if the dollar amount needed is not met by the Feds?

Does Utah have any toll roads?

[Future Mayor]

There was a proposal for an I-84 connector in Ogden that would have been a toll road but I have no idea if that was ever built, does anyone else know?

As for other toll roads there are non, UDOT had talked about making the west side freeway (Mtn View Corridor) a toll road but that met with a huge amount of opposition with the west side residents, so a phases version has been proposed, maybe adopted (it is available a few pages back).

So to answer your question, the only toll road is the I-84 connector if it was built, and I don't foresee any in the near future. If they decide to rape Utah Lake with a bridge, those F'ing residents out there in Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs better not expect it to be free.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

There was a proposal for an I-84 connector in Ogden that would have been a toll road but I have no idea if that was ever built, does anyone else know?

The Adams Avenue Parkway:
http://adamsavenueparkway.com/


It was is privately owned and I can't imagine that the owners are making any money off of it. I drove it once just to see what it was like, but unless you are driving from South Weber to Washington Terrace and are so pressed for time that you can't afford the extra 5 minutes it would take to use Riverdale Rd. or US 89, its completely useless.

I of course have no real data about its useage, but with the toll at $1.00, I can't see how they could even afford to staff the toll booth all day, let alone reclaim any of the cost that went into its construction.

:edit:
The wikipedia article says that 1,600 cars use the road daily. This seems very high to me, but even at that rate, it would take over 15 years just to recover the cost of building it.

[Urban_logic]

I was riding TRAX into town this morning and noticed a train that said "Murray Central" as its end destination. This is something that I was just saying TRAX should do not too long ago on the SLC Transit News thread - have more trains running during peak-times that don't go the full route to alleviate train congestion. Looks like they are doing just that. Great thinking UTA!!

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

The Adams Avenue Parkway:
http://adamsavenueparkway.com/


It was is privately owned and I can't imagine that the owners are making any money off of it. I drove it once just to see what it was like, but unless you are driving from South Weber to Washington Terrace and are so pressed for time that you can't afford the extra 5 minutes it would take to use Riverdale Rd. or US 89, its completely useless.

I of course have no real data about its useage, but with the toll at $1.00, I can't see how they could even afford to staff the toll booth all day, let alone reclaim any of the cost that went into its construction.

:edit:
The wikipedia article says that 1,600 cars use the road daily. This seems very high to me, but even at that rate, it would take over 15 years just to recover the cost of building it.

A $1 toll? I haven't even heard of a toll that freakin' cheap! I'm used to $4 tolls (SF Bay Bridge) and $5 tolls (Golden Gate Bridge). Even with a $4 toll, 280,000 people still use the Bay Bridge every day! That would be like the entire state of Utah crossing the bridge every 10 days. That's when I would think a toll is appropriate - when the ridership supports it.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

I was riding TRAX into town this morning and noticed a train that said "Murray Central" as its end destination. This is something that I was just saying TRAX should do not too long ago on the SLC Transit News thread - have more trains running during peak-times that don't go the full route to alleviate train congestion. Looks like they are doing just that. Great thinking UTA!!

UTA has a maintenance yard for light rail vehicles in Midvale. It is accessed from between the Murray Central and Fashion Place West stations. So, occasionally you'll see a train like the one you saw that shows Murray Central as the final destination. This is because it is headed to the maintenance yard for some reason and will not continue past Murray Central.

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

UTA has a maintenance yard for light rail vehicles in Midvale. It is accessed from between the Murray Central and Fashion Place West stations. So, occasionally you'll see a train like the one you saw that shows Murray Central as the final destination. This is because it is headed to the maintenance yard for some reason and will not continue past Murray Central.

Thanks, I got it. Nick just got me up to speed on the other thread

Here I was just thinking UTA was being innovative, but oh well...lol Maybe UTA will explore a short-run train increase during peak hours concept when the Mid-Jordan line goes into service

[Future Mayor]

I realize the title of this thread is Transit. Should we include road info in here as well?

State to implement 'congestion pricing' on I-15
The Associated Press

LAYTON, Utah — The state hopes a new system that would charge drivers who use express lanes based on how many cars are using them will ultimately decrease congestion on a major Utah freeway.

The "congestion pricing" system means that when more cars are in an express lane, the price to use it goes up. The system will be implemented beginning in fall 2010 on I-15.

Congestion pricing is aimed at discouraging motorists from driving during peak traffic hours.

Stuart Adams, chairman of the Utah Transportation Commission, says that the pricing system can help the state better use existing infrastructure, instead of having to build additional road systems just for peak drive times.

From the Daily Herald

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/297583/182/

[UTAZLoVer]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

The Adams Avenue Parkway:
http://adamsavenueparkway.com/


It was is privately owned and I can't imagine that the owners are making any money off of it. I drove it once just to see what it was like, but unless you are driving from South Weber to Washington Terrace and are so pressed for time that you can't afford the extra 5 minutes it would take to use Riverdale Rd. or US 89, its completely useless.

I of course have no real data about its useage, but with the toll at $1.00, I can't see how they could even afford to staff the toll booth all day, let alone reclaim any of the cost that went into its construction.

:edit:
The wikipedia article says that 1,600 cars use the road daily. This seems very high to me, but even at that rate, it would take over 15 years just to recover the cost of building it.

My Mom uses this toll road everyday.

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I realize the title of this thread is Transit. Should we include road info in here as well?

State to implement 'congestion pricing' on I-15
The Associated Press

LAYTON, Utah — The state hopes a new system that would charge drivers who use express lanes based on how many cars are using them will ultimately decrease congestion on a major Utah freeway.

The "congestion pricing" system means that when more cars are in an express lane, the price to use it goes up. The system will be implemented beginning in fall 2010 on I-15.

Congestion pricing is aimed at discouraging motorists from driving during peak traffic hours.

Stuart Adams, chairman of the Utah Transportation Commission, says that the pricing system can help the state better use existing infrastructure, instead of having to build additional road systems just for peak drive times.

From the Daily Herald

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/297583/182/

It's about f'ing time!! Now they just need to toll everyone on the freeway during peak times (sorry 215) and mass transit usage will skyrocket!! Plus look at all that revenue we would have to advance other transit projects

[TANGELD_SLC]

I'll just carpool Like I ALWAYS do. I never go anywhere alone. Tis a waste.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

It's about f'ing time!! Now they just need to toll everyone on the freeway during peak times (sorry 215) and mass transit usage will skyrocket!! Plus look at all that revenue we would have to advance other transit projects

BOO!!!

Planners are quick to say "freeways are bad" and toll the crud out of 'em. But when we do, we'll watch this country's retail sector fall to its knees. Malls will dry up, and black boxes will litter cities. Not to mention the havoc on city streets with cars flooding them to avoid tolls.

And nothing says "pedestrian friendly" like a L.O.S. grade "F" street. Wilshire was a blast to walk along last week. The smog and noise was very inviting. Not to mention how the traffic speeds up the bus service!

Imagine how much better it would be if the tolls forced the poor and middle classes off the Santa Monica Freeway onto city streets. It'd be a nice playground for the rich. We could re-name I-10 to the "Caste System Highway."



Listen, if local and state governments can't afford the two basic fundamentals of a city (schools and roads) ... then I ask, what on earth is more important?


Hindering mobility NEVER fixes the problem. Punishing driving doesn't improve transit.

[John Martin]

Ughh, we had such good roads and now this. There's really no point in finishing all those projects if we're just going to discourage people from using them.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by John Martin

Ughh, we had such good roads and now this. There's really no point in finishing all those projects if we're just going to discourage people from using them.

Agreed. To me schools and roads are the only good use of tax dollars. You may see the school is a little crowded, and the road a little congested ... but isn't that a sign that we are getting our money's worth out of it?

I think transit can have the same benefits, but it will never work until we remove the fares. It creates a barrier to entry that dissuades me from riding it on short errands, like the grocery store. And I'm certainly not going to ride the bus long distance. In the end, I don't ride it at all.

[scrapernerd]

I aggree We need to make commuter rail cheaper! I don't care if gas is 5 buck a gallon! I can still go to North Ogden fast, and cheaper then a round trip. It $11.00 buck and to think if I wanted to go from Ogden to Provo when the whole line opens It will be like 20 buck round trip!! I also don't like how some gas tax money goes to commuter rail to be fair .25 of the rail fair should go to roads!! Is it fair no but It make about the same sense.
Okay I'm off my rant

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by i-215

BOO!!!

Planners are quick to say "freeways are bad" and toll the crud out of 'em. But when we do, we'll watch this country's retail sector fall to its knees. Malls will dry up, and black boxes will litter cities. Not to mention the havoc on city streets with cars flooding them to avoid tolls.

And nothing says "pedestrian friendly" like a L.O.S. grade "F" street. Wilshire was a blast to walk along last week. The smog and noise was very inviting. Not to mention how the traffic speeds up the bus service!

Imagine how much better it would be if the tolls forced the poor and middle classes off the Santa Monica Freeway onto city streets. It'd be a nice playground for the rich. We could re-name I-10 to the "Caste System Highway."

Listen, if local and state governments can't afford the two basic fundamentals of a city (schools and roads) ... then I ask, what on earth is more important?

Hindering mobility NEVER fixes the problem. Punishing driving doesn't improve transit.

I knew I would hit a nerve in you with that comment. I still stand by it though. I support tolls, but I'm not in the mood to get into a toll debate right now. You are right, we shouldn't toll everything. Also, tolls don't have to be expensive. Imagine if we tolled people on 1-15 during rush hour (say from 6-8am and 4-6pm) at 1-2 dollars. If you are really so poor that you can't afford a buck or two, then get off work early or stay later and simply avoid the toll. This method of tolling is made to even out traffic flows. If those who refuse to pay the toll left work later or got off earlier, then they wouldn't be on the roads during rush hour - which helps, even though they still drive on the freeway and don't pay the toll. For some people, they may just decide to use mass-transit. The majority, however, would probably still use the freeways during rush hour and pay the toll - which will help fund projects (road or mass-transit projects.) I don't see a senerio where people will flood the surface streets because it's inconvenient. It would be well worth a dollar to use the freeway than fight through surface street traffic and get home a half hour later (you'd probably waste more than a dollar in gas with your engine idling at lights anyways). Remember, I'm not talking a permanant toll - just a rush hour toll to even out traffic flows.

Don't you think you were being a little dramatic? "Caste System Freeway" Lol

[i-215]

Well, the toll lanes on the 91 in O.C. are already becoming that. All I saw were Lexuses and BMWs flying past at 80 cents to $1 per mile. Do you really think the average person, especially the poor can afford to spend $5 to drive five miles?

The fairer way would be to raise the fuel tax. That still allows the poor to drive Honda Civics and drive economically as a way to offset a toll, which smacks everybody, regardless of their wheels, be it: Escalade or Corolla.

In the end if the entire highway was congestion pricing, it would already be a "caste system" in parts of Southern California. What if they tolled the 101 between Santa Barbara and the San Fernando Valley? Who drives that road? Why it's the poor Hispanic workers who cook the food and mop the mansions of those who can afford to live there.

We must never forget that (at least in other cities than SLC) many times the commuters we see driving long distances aren't pansy middle-class people who want their McMansions. A lot of them are the poor, the immigrants, the less advantaged who simply cannot afford to live near their job. But they can afford a '91 Civic and the gas to drive it. They can afford the time to drive there.

And it makes me quite upset when I hear scheming "don't tax me"-style Republicans proposing to punish the very people who mow their lawns.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by i-215

Agreed. To me schools and roads are the only good use of tax dollars.

Police? Fire? garbage pick up? water delivery? building permits? natl defense? water quality? air quality? natural resource protection? some would argue other items too (health care for example) but that is a debate for another time and place.

[urbanboy]

Let's not forget mass-transit (efficient, cleaner, and helps to break down class systems).