Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[nerox3]

re: using the SE transitway

How about using the o-train and the SE transitway together in a "Y" pattern where you can go south from bayview to south keys, north from south keys to hurdman and west from hurdman (via confederation) to bayview. It would be confusing as all getout but re addressing these sorts of fundamental routing issues at this point indicates we don't have any sort of councillor concensus and aren't getting a train any time soon.

I'm starting to look fondly back at the old LRT plan. If only they had stopped the line at south keys instead of attempting to anticipate growth in riverside south I could have got behind that plan. sigh

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by nerox3

re: using the SE transitway

How about using the o-train and the SE transitway together in a "Y" pattern where you can go south from bayview to south keys, north from south keys to hurdman and west from hurdman (via confederation) to bayview. It would be confusing as all getout but re addressing these sorts of fundamental routing issues at this point indicates we don't have any sort of councillor concensus and aren't getting a train any time soon.

I'm starting to look fondly back at the old LRT plan. If only they had stopped the line at south keys instead of attempting to anticipate growth in riverside south I could have got behind that plan. sigh

I think you have a point there. The 'PLAN' that has been accepted by Council is really just a guideline with some lines on the map.

There will be an east-arm of an LRT which will probably follow the existing Transitway from the University of Ottawa to Blair, but the area of study includes a possible route along Industrial to Innes.



There seems to be a myriad of possibilities for tunnel allignments through the core from Booth to the University of Ottawa. Although a modified version of the 'Cross Country' route will probably be chosen, there are options from Slater to Queen.

I think we can be pretty sure about the route from Booth to Tunneys Pasture running in the existing Scott Trench. This will probably continue through to Westboro.

The stretch from Westboro west is to be determined and could run along the Ottawa River Parkway, the old CPR alignment, or on/under the Byron/Richmond corridor. Apparently Carling is to also be in the study, but I can't believe it will be seriously considered as a possibility.

The stretch from Lincoln Fields to Baseline will be redundant rail and bus lines, but there is no firm idea about how or where these will run.

The western link from the S-W Transitway to Bayshore is up in the air as a new Environmental Assessment (EA) is done to either choose a new route or confirm the previous route. This EA was to have started in 2007, but as of the end of 2008, Staff claimed that they had been too busy to get around to it.

The O-Train will probably be converted to twin-track, electric LRT from South Keys to Bayview. How the train and passengers will connect witht eh west-east trains is still to be determined.

However, Council has directed Staff to evaluate the conversion of the S-E Transitway to rail also. I don't know if this is to be done in addition to, or instead of, the O-Train conversion. I'm not sure Council or Staff know that either.

The EA for the Hospital Corridor has yet to be awarded. (Hopefully in Jan. or Feb., I hear.) It is likely that this EA will need to be tied into the Downtown Ottawa Transit Tunnel (DOTT) EA since the Hospital Corridor will be expanded to run from Hurdman to Blair. This will overlap part of the DOTT study area. (I'm betting that Delcan gets this contract since they are doing the expanded DOTT EA.)

There is a new, major, Confederation Transfer Station to be designed and built, but there has not been much work done on that yet. However, the Baseline Station is getting a total re-build, but the current plans do not appear to be suitable for the future system as shown in the 'PLAN'. For example, the new station will not have a provision for both rail and buses heading north.

If any of the Councillors, or the Mayor, are hoping that their legacy will be a rail system in this city, then they had better hope that they get elected for at least two more terms.

[waterloowarrior]

Transit strike cancels rail consultations


BY JAKE RUPERT, THE OTTAWA CITIZENJANUARY 22, 2009 12:02 PM


OTTAWA — The business of city hall is being hampered by the transit strike, and the labour dispute is even slowing development of the municipality’s new light-rail based mass-transit plan.

Deputy city manager Nancy Schepers announced Thursday that due to the strike, the first open house on the downtown transit-tunnel study, scheduled for Jan. 29, has been cancelled.

In a memo to city council members, Mr. Schepers said the event is being cancelled because the city recognizes “the importance of ensuring that the public has access to all open houses regarding City projects.”

Ms. Schepers said “at this time” the cancellation is not expected to interfere with the tunnel study’s 20-month time frame, and that she will advise if this changes. She said other consultations and group meetings dealing with the tunnel project are continuing.

However, she said decisions to hold or cancel public consultations on other projects will be made on a “case-by-case basis.”

River Councillor Maria McRae said the cancelled open house is symptomatic of how things are working at city hall during the strike. She said regular business has been slowed as elected officials and city staff time is eaten up by strike-related issues.

She said the difficulties at city hall “pale in comparison to the suffering of citizens who have no access to transportation during the strike,” but that getting things done around city hall is harder.

“I think today’s announcement that plans for the biggest project and biggest issue this council will deal with are being altered is evidence of what’s happening,” she said.

Ms. McRae said city staff are working long hours and weekends and more efficiently in an effort to keep things running, but that it’s clear things are slowing down.

“They are doing the best they can,” she said. “It’s not a major slowdown yet, but the strike is certainly putting pressure on people’s schedules and time.”

[lrt's friend]

Wow, and I just mentioned this earlier today, not knowing of the official cancellation. I should get my crystal ball out more often.

[Kitchissippi]

Why don't they just post the information on their website anyway? The boards in the open houses are the same stuff just printed out and placed on easels. Makes me suspect that either A] they've fallen behind (maybe partly because of the strike) or B] they are scared the public will not be responding positively to any transit-related project during the strike. In reality, relatively few people go to the open houses, and they are usually the same people (who probably know how to access the same information on the internet) but they just want to voice their opinion in public and maybe get a soundbite or quote with whatever media shows up.

[Richard Eade]

The January 29th Open House had been posted on the City's Web Site. The date has been postponed because there is little chance that there won't be complaints from people about not being able to get to the Open House. This must appear to be an open and transparent process.

As a note; the Open House for the Strandherd-Armstrong Bridge was held Dec. 16, but so few people showed up, it was scheduled to be re-presented on January 15th - after the strike was over. Oops. The strike was still on and again, the turnout was a disaster. This was a good indicator that the DOTT Open House should be delayed.

There should be no slippage in the schedule if the Open House can be completed before about the end of March. After that, it will interfere with the presentation to Council and the following Open House because those normally wouldn't be done during the summer.

[c_speed3108]

So it seems the tunnel is a hundred year project....

A tunnel for the city
Prime Minister Robert Borden set the wheels in motion for it in 1913

By Barry Padolsky, The Ottawa Citizen January 23, 2009

On Nov. 29, 2008, after months of political grandstanding and strenuous arm-wrestling, Ottawa City Council finally approved a Downtown Ottawa Transit Tunnel (DOTT). The tunnel will be the key feature of the city's newest vision for an environmentally friendly rapid-transit system.

As an alternative to former Mayor Bob Chiarelli's well-intended, but ill-fated, plan which squeezed a surface-rail system into Ottawa's already congested core area, the DOTT seems to have caught the public imagination as an innovative, if ambitious, solution. We pray that we can finance it.

Here are the basic tunnel details. As envisioned by Ottawa's draft 2008 Master Transportation Plan, the tunnel would be the centrepiece of a 12-kilometre east-west light-rail train system that would generally follow the alignment of the existing bus Transitway.

In Phase 1 of the plan, light-rail trains would stop at 13 stations on the route from the Blair Road station in the east to the Tunney's Pasture station in the west. These stations would include Ottawa's inter-city Via Rail train station in Alta Vista. In Phase 2, light-rail extensions west to Woodroffe-Baseline and south to Riverside South via Ottawa airport would be constructed; bus rapid transit would complete the plan's vision by reaching east to Orléans and west to Kanata.

The tunnel's eastern portal would be near the University of Ottawa Transitway station along the Rideau Canal. The tunnel's western portal would be in LeBreton Flats at the foot of the daunting 20-metre high-rock escarpment that forms the western plateau of Ottawa's downtown core. The tunnel would be drilled through Ottawa's 450-million-year-old paleozoic bedrock (Ottawa Formation Limestone) for a length of approximately three kilometres. Four subway stations would be constructed under the downtown core. A "downtown west" station would serve the Bank-Lyon high-density population precinct. A "downtown east" station would serve the O'Connor-Metcalfe-Parliament Hill area. A "Rideau" station (possibly at the former Union Train Station) would serve the Rideau Centre, Congress Centre, and the ByWard Market. The fourth "Campus" subway station would serve the University of Ottawa.

Light-rail trains would speed riders seamlessly under the core of the capital -- no fighting with surface traffic or weather. Although optional tunnel routes to connect these stations are still being studied as part of an environmental assessment, each option is consistent with the innovative grand vision that makes eminent urban transit sense for a capital city of a million.

So, if a DOTT is such a simple and elegant solution, why did it only just emerge as a viable idea in the last year? Why did we not think of it before?

Well, we did. It was in 1915. When our population was just 100,000. The big question is: why did it take us 93 years to reinvent it?

In 1913, the newly elected Conservative prime minister, Robert Borden, appointed a Federal Plan Commission to "draw up and perfect a comprehensive scheme or plan looking to the future growth and development of the City of Ottawa and the City of Hull."

Borden appointed Herbert Samuel Holt as chairman of this commission. Holt, one of the richest men in Canada, was a confidant of Borden. Holt was a major investor in the Canadian Pacific Railway, chair of the Royal Bank of Canada, a member of the Conservative party, and a civil engineer. Not bad qualifications.

The Holt Commission selected one of the most respected architect-city planners of the era to lead the professional consulting team. He was Edward H. Bennett, an American. Bennett had collaborated with the legendary architect and city planner, Daniel H. Burnham ("make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood") on the visionary 1909 Master Plan for Chicago. Bennett was a leading advocate for the City Beautiful movement. His achievements included plans for Washington's Federal Triangle, and comprehensive plans for a dozen U.S. cities. Bennett was also a profoundly practical person.

One of the fundamental objectives of the Holt Commission's 1915 General Plan for the Cities of Ottawa and Hull was to reorganize and expand the existing urban-rapid-transit system. After all in 1913, Ottawa-Hull already had a population of approximately 100,000. Bennett conservatively estimated the capital would grow to 250,000 by 1950 (he was right).

One of the bold features of the plan was a DOTT. In fact, two tunnels were envisaged. One for electric street cars. One for steam trains.

The west portals of the two tunnels would be in LeBreton Flats at the foot of the rock escarpment that forms the edge of downtown Ottawa (does this sound familiar?).

The rail tunnel would be drilled under Wellington Street permitting the frequent trains on the CPR and Grand Trunk train system from Toronto to arrive uninhibited at Ottawa's newly constructed Union Station (1912) opposite the Château Laurier. Trains from Union Station would leave the tunnel and steam south along the Rideau Canal and east to Montreal along the existing rail lines, or north to Quebec across the recently constructed Alexandra Bridge (1900).

The separate electric street car tunnel would be located under Sparks and Wellington streets. It would emerge at Union Station to allow convenient passenger transfers at this major rapid-transit hub. Four subway stations would be constructed under the downtown core (does this sound familiar?). The four would be a "downtown west" station at Sparks and Lyon, a "downtown centre" at Wellington and Bank, a "downtown Parliament" on Wellington, and finally Union Station.

The benefit of the Holt-Bennett downtown tunnel plan was that it would permit public transit to be reliable, safe, and rapid, unencumbered by surface traffic and the congestion typified in 1913 by Ottawa's once popular and crowded Sparks Street.

If the Holt-Bennett plan for a downtown transit tunnel was so visionary and pragmatic, why was it not implemented? Ottawa, today, would have inherited a rapid transit framework.

Tunnel engineering and cost were clearly not constraints. In 1860, nearby Brockville (population 5,000) had constructed a downtown train tunnel right under the Brockville City Hall to its waterfront (Canada's first railway tunnel). The Connaught tunnel under Roger's Pass (North America's longest railway tunnel) had just been completed in 1916. What was the big deal?

Professor of urban planning and historian David L. A. Gordon has speculated that the grand 1915 plan disappeared from sight for several reasons. For example, it was tabled in the middle of the First World War. Canada was heavily preoccupied with this costly war. Meanwhile, the bitter debate about conscription divided the country along party lines. In addition, the Holt-Bennett plan was generally attacked by critics of the City Beautiful movement. Many argued that the Holt-Bennett plan contained too much emphasis on the esthetic objectives for a "beautiful" national capital.

Perhaps more significantly, the Holt Commission proposals were doomed by the recommendation that Ottawa-Hull had to become a federal district like Washington to execute the planning vision. The Holt-Bennett team argued that total control of the city must be placed in the hands of a "body of expert federal commissioners" (imagine the National Capital Commission). It appears that neither Ottawa, Hull, nor the legislatures of Ontario and Quebec were prepared to entertain this erosion of provincial and local authority.

Borden, the major patron of the Holt Commission, retired in 1920. To make matters worse, the Conservatives lost the federal election in 1921. The Holt-Bennett's plans were destined for oblivion.

A new prime minister, William Lyon Mackenzie King, took power with a minority Liberal government. King had his own ideas about the capital that were ultimately codified in the Jacques Gréber Plan of 1950. The Gréber Plan erased any notion of a downtown rapid-transit tunnel, or a vision of a downtown rapid-transit system. Gréber recommended banning railroads from the core of Ottawa.

Will the Holt-Bennett tunnel finally be built by 2015, a century later?

Bennett once quoted his mentor Daniel Burnham, the planner of the 1893 Chicago World's Fair, who said: "a noble, logical diagram once recorded will never die, but long after we are gone, will be a living thing asserting itself with ever-growing insistency."

Was Bennett prophetic? There is reason to hope.

Barry Padolsky is an Ottawa architect and urban critic.
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

So it seems the tunnel is a hundred year project....

I have a map from 1924 showing the proposed Wellington Street rail tunnel

[AuxTown]

I think any hope for a new transit system is in serious jeopardy. Our council will bicker every single step of the way, making it impossible to get anything accomplished. Throw the NCC and thousands of NIMBYs into the mix and you have one stalled project after another. Another reality will become apparent when OC Transpo loses 20-30% of its ridership as a direct impact of the transit strike. How can we justify building this when our current system will no longer be at capacity. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I can't see how they won't lose a significant portion of their ridership. All of LRT's opponents (including those on this forum) will be ready to use any drop in ridership to prove their point and boosters (like myself) won't have much to say as many of their points will be valid.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have a map from 1924 showing the proposed Wellington Street rail tunnel

Do share!

[WZ1]

Ottawa is still bickering over this project ... LOL... i left Ottawa 6 years ago for this very reason... sick of the BS.. nothing EVER gets done in Ottawa. Mississauga will have an LRT and subway service before Ottawa gets LRT..

[Rathgrith]

^Lucky you aren't here to deal with the strike.

[WZ1]

Originally Posted by Rathgrith

^Lucky you aren't here to deal with the strike.

Its gross, I am born and raised in Ottawa.. but sometimes the stupidity of the 4-levels of government amazes me. I guess one thing this transit strike has proven is that Ottawa has such a inefficient transit system that it could almost just go without.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by WZ1

Ottawa is still bickering over this project ... LOL... i left Ottawa 6 years ago for this very reason... sick of the BS.. nothing EVER gets done in Ottawa. Mississauga will have an LRT and subway service before Ottawa gets LRT..

I still need to come to Ottawa frequently because of my job, until April 1st. So I still need to walk around town, and no transit sucks. It's the worst city I lived in for sure. It's a loser town.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

I still need to come to Ottawa frequently because of my job, until April 1st. So I still need to walk around town, and no transit sucks. It's the worst city I lived in for sure. It's a loser town.

I don't know if Ottawa is a loser town but it certainly is grossly underachieving when one considers the tremendous assets it has going for it.

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

I still need to come to Ottawa frequently because of my job, until April 1st. So I still need to walk around town, and no transit sucks. It's the worst city I lived in for sure. It's a loser town.

You're the loser for spewing off such infantile venom. You're not wanted here, get another job. Go back to self-satisfy yourself wherever you're happy.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

You're the loser for spewing off such infantile venom. You're not wanted here, get another job. Go back to self-satisfy yourself wherever you're happy.

And that's exactly what I did! The truth hurts, no? Continue to tell that to people who want change, and the city will keep it's attitude.

[Acajack]

D Jeffrey:

I think what irks someone like Mille Sabords is that not too long ago you were on here as the biggest Ottawa-booster, Montreal was the worst of the worst. Now of all sudden Ottawa is loser city. Are you “high” on Montreal as your new flavour of the month now?

Anyway, it seems a bit odd to be so engrossed with a place (and I can remember you saying you hated Montreal at the time) and then souring on it so quickly afterwards. Ottawa is not that different today that it was when you were lauding it as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Larry O'Brien was mayor then, LRT was still having trouble getting out of the station, etc.

Sure, Ottawa has significant governance and leadership problems at the municipal level. No one here disputes that. In fact, the Ottawans who post here are the city’s most vocal critics. That’s because they want things to improve. But not to the point of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sure, Ottawa has significant governance and leadership problems at the municipal level. No one here disputes that. In fact, the Ottawans who post here are the city’s most vocal critics. That’s because they want things to improve. But not to the point of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I just tried to convince myself that I liked Ottawa, but having stayed here for 5 years, I just had enough. I still rent an appt. here and in MTL in the meantime, until April 1st. I absolutely love Toronto and enjoyed Sherbrooke when I lived there. It's sad that I can't afford TO for now.

It's an issue with most government town, where the process takes precedence on the result. Governance is indeed a big issue. The bus strike is just the cherry on top, after all the admistrative process one has go through, just to live. Sure MTL is not perfect, but at least it didn't take me 18 months to get a letter of offer, and at least there's essential subway service when there's a strike.

The thing is I want to see results, Montréal is getting a tramway in 2013, and that was decided two years ago. They now are building the theater sector, using their own money because the other governements sectors were too slow. The Federal governemnt still was holding the money, same thing for the Spadina Subway extension in Toronto. The constitution is a mess and must be change for the sake of this country.

What new project there is for Ottawa that isn't blasted for years on end? The bridge? LRT? If only the Airport and Congress Centre managers would take over the city, maybe it wouldn't be that bad.

I told many times that LRT Friend is so cynical, but after trying to be positive, I can see where he was coming from.

I was producing shows here in Hull, and I was told that the clientel in Ottawa wasn't appropriate, so I had to change it for Montréal, and Ottawa. It's just overwhelming and I just had enough. After putting so much energy into projects, just to have them destroy by the conservative and cheap populace, I said bye.

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

I just tried to convince myself that I liked Ottawa, but having stayed here for 5 years, I just had enough. I still rent an appt. here and in MTL in the meantime, until April 1st. I absolutely love Toronto and enjoyed Sherbrooke when I lived there.

Nobody is forcing you to like Ottawa. In fact, cities that matter are often despised and criticized, so I'm secure in the fact that Ottawa is a thriving city that matters, just seeingn how it gets under so many people's skins and leaves no one indifferent. Stomp your feet on the floor like a kid and call us a loser town if you want - the fact is you needed to be here, and the city is forever part of your history. I hope it makes you a better person.

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

It's an issue with most government town, where the process takes precedence on the result. Governance is indeed a big issue. The bus strike is just the cherry on top, after all the admistrative process one has go through, just to live. Sure MTL is not perfect, but at least it didn't take me 18 months to get a letter of offer, and at least there's essential subway service when there's a strike.

And here we go again with the tired clichés about government towns. You know what the real problem is? We get a lot of imports here, like you, who refuse to believe that this can be a good place because, hey, your own home region is numbah one! That's how it is in this country. The myth of Ottawa-the-Loser-Town must be upheld at all costs, because otherwise, it would weaken the regions! How would it look if a Montrealer actually enjoyed himself here? Worse even, enjoyed herself? I don't buy the myth. Those of us who are of this place will give it its own identity despite what others say. And the more naysaying the better - it builds resolve and character.

Besides... you don't have strikes in Montreal? Your cols-bleus are notorious pains in the ass, remember the fire stations covered in graffiti? And the cops? And the vandalized garbage trucks? Great, you have a subway, we're working on one. Montreal inspires us, we're not so insecure as to call Montreal a loser town for all its blue-collar strikes.

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

I was producing shows here in Hull, and I was told that the clientel in Ottawa wasn't appropriate, so I had to change it for Montréal, and Ottawa. It's just overwhelming and I just had enough. After putting so much energy into projects, just to have them destroy by the conservative and cheap populace, I said bye.

That, my friend, is between you and your employer. You choose a "safe" job with "safe" wages and "safe" benefits, you get that. You'll get it anywhere. You think TVA or Radio-Québec are any different? On the other hand, you check out some of the better stuff being done here - pick up Upfront Magazine, for one - it's not "safe", it's not "conservative", but it's totally Ottawa, and I read it instead of listening to whatever your bosses are doing.

Good luck to you.