Olympic Village & Southeast False Creek Updates Discussion - Page 38

sacrifice333 · #**741** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 5:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlousa

The brew club will be run by the markjames group. Sound be pretty good.

MJG is the most over-rated restaurant group in Vancouver.

Delirium · #**742** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 1:30 PM**

Vancouver's Wall Financial Corp. scraps False Creek condo project to build rentals
By Derrick Penner, Vancouver SunJanuary 22, 2009

In the face of sales that have ground to a halt, Wall Financial Corp. has decided to scrap its 414-unit Wall Centre False Creek condominium project in favour of building rental apartments on the site, company principal Peter Wall said in an interview.

In its last quarterly financial results, Wall Financial said it had sold almost 30 per cent of the Wall Centre Creek's units, 120 in all, but that sales had come “to almost a complete stop” during the quarter.

Wall said those 120 buyers who signed up for the False Creek project, adjacent to the Olympic Athletes Village site, will get their deposits back while the company redesigns the project as rentals.

And the company said it won’t contemplate starting pre-sales for any new projects over the next three quarters, according to the management’s discussion and analysis statement to its third-quarter financial report.

“We were a bit spoiled,” Wall said of Vancouver's condominium market. “[Condominiums] were just going out the door before.”

“Now I think the market for condos has been satisfied, for the present anyway, but the demand for rentals is very strong. So we thought we'd just switch to rentals.”

Wall said it wouldn’t take long to make the adjustment, but because of security restrictions for the Olympics the firm would not be able to start construction until after the Games in early 2010.

In the management discussion an analysis of its last quarter's financial results, Wall Financial said the slowdown in apartment sales caused it to halt sales on another project, its redevelopment of the building at 1212 Howe St.

Wall Financial is currently building the Wall Centre Richmond and the Capitol Residences building in downtown Vancouver. It also operates two hotels, including the Sheraton Wall Centre, as well as holding a number of rental apartments.

Among its other developments, Wall Financial sold 109 of 150 units in the strata-titled 1212 Howe St. building, but said it would retain ownership of the remaining 41 units until the market improves.

Wall Financial said its debt facilities and construction loans for its existing projects “are in good standing” and it doesn’t expect any obstacles in renewing them.

However, arranging financing for new projects “will be challenging in terms of loan amount, rates and fees which may impact our ability to make acquisitions or start new development projects.”

Hed Kandi · #**743** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 2:01 PM**

More great news for the rental market!

sacrifice333 · #**744** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 2:24 PM**

Unfortunate news for those that bought there and the Vancouver Playhouse especially.

Wall Centre False Creek, although less substantial in size than Millennium Water, was the most significant non-athletes village project being attempted down there.

I hope that by 2010, when they're able to recommence constructions, marketing, etc. of their project that they can put together something more similar to their original project, but maybe change one of the buildings to rental housing, or something.

eduardo88 · #**745** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 5:13 PM**

where there any rendering out for the wall centre?

LeftCoaster · #**746** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 5:26 PM**

yeah there were quite a few, no idea where they have gone now though... and far too lazy to search for them.

WarrenC12 · #**747** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 5:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delirium

Wall said those 120 buyers who signed up for the False Creek project, adjacent to the Olympic Athletes Village site, will get their deposits back while the company redesigns the project as rentals.

Wow, lesson learned about pre-sales in the latest bubble:

1. Commit to buy above market value in a falling market? You'll forfeit your deposit or get sued by the developer.

2. Developer changes their mind? Too bad, so sad.

I don't know the history of pre-sales in the early 80s bubble, but I wonder if they will ever come back after this one.

mr.x · #**748** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 5:54 PM**

Hmmm....so would that mean there would be a different design for Wall?

LeftCoaster · #**749** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 5:55 PM**

Likely just slight interior changes, although with a rental building they might be tempted to cheapen out the quality of the design a bit.

Delirium · #**750** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eduardo88

where there any rendering out for the wall centre?

here you go. it's too bad about the Playhouse theater but i am certainly not upset that these buildings won't get built. they're so damn boring.
hopefully Wall will come back with something more original in a years time.

phesto · #**751** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 7:08 PM**

The Sun article doesn't mention it, but I imagine Wall would still stratify the building to retain the option to sell them as condos when the market recovers? If that was the case, you could expect a higher quality product like The RISE, or South Granville Lofts, (both stratified; the latter already sold as condos) as opposed to something cheaper looking like Wall's Metropolian Towers rental buildings on Seymour.

jlousa · #**752** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 7:11 PM**

I beleive that is the case, they will be rentals until the market improves and then sold off.

mr.x · #**753** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 7:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Likely just slight interior changes, although with a rental building they might be tempted to cheapen out the quality of the design a bit.

Good to know.....will the Playhouse still go ahead?

LeftCoaster · #**754** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 7:28 PM**

unless the density decreases significantly, which it wont, I would be quite confident the Playhouse will still go ahead.

officedweller · #**755** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 8:28 PM**

I would also assume that the Playhouse component would still proceed, unless Wall Financial also has no need for the additional density they received in exchange for the Playhouse elements and downsizes the project - but there's no indication of that, just that the project is delayed (which impacts the theatre's operations).

johnjimbc · #**756** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 8:40 PM**

On the other hand, shifts of projects like the Wall project will assist sales at Millennium Water since it essentially eliminates some competition for those new units.

I know folks may grow tired of my comparisons and observations about DC, but I again see parallels to what occurred within DC as the market first changed there back in 2005 & 2006. Some buildings under construction there at the time shifted to rentals, which kept inventory of re-sales and remaining new sales at reasonable levels. Some projects on the drawing board just remained in planning and didn't move forward to construction (though some did). But the subtle and sometimes substantial shifts in planned projects have allowed the market to stay relatively healthy there. Prices have leveled off in DC, but they have not fallen much at all in the city itself (whose population is almost identical to Vancouver (city) - just under 800,000 (the metro area of DC is larger however - 2.5 million by some estimates, over 4 million if including Baltimore Md). Rental rates fell somewhat, which was a benefit. But the rental market has stayed relatively healthy there as well.

So as much as I don't like seeing things such as cultural or public space benefits getting scaled back with projects like this, these moves reassure me the market is adapting as it should to changing times.

sacrifice333 · #**757** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 10:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjimbc

On the other hand, shifts of projects like the Wall project will assist sales at Millennium Water since it essentially eliminates some competition for those new units.

Yeah... maybe of those 120 sales... 30-60 still want to buy in the neighbourhood.... only 450 units left to sell....

johnjimbc · #**758** Posted **Jan 23, 2009, 10:28 PM**

yeah, that was my basic point. I'm glad it's not in dispute.

eduardo88 · #**759** Posted **Jan 24, 2009, 1:44 AM**

What I don't get is: why doesn't wall go ahead with the 120 condos already sold and make the other building rentals? It says that they've already sold 30%, couldn't they make one of the towers condos and the rest rentals? I'd think that the project would be more profitable with at least a portion of the units being sold instead of making the money back over 25 or so years of rent...

sacrifice333 · #**760** Posted **Jan 24, 2009, 1:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eduardo88

What I don't get is: why doesn't wall go ahead with the 120 condos already sold and make the other building rentals? It says that they've already sold 30%, couldn't they make one of the towers condos and the rest rentals? I'd think that the project would be more profitable with at least a portion of the units being sold instead of making the money back over 25 or so years of rent...

I believe under the Real Estate Marketing Act (or whatever it's called) a project can only be marketed without a permit for 6-9 months and then there's some rules about getting the permit and/or commencing construction or they have to re-file the disclosure statement and IIRC every time the disclosure statement is re-filed the purchases have a 7-day right of rescission.

And since it sounds like Wall can't really start construction before 2010, given there delay so far, most people would likely back-out at some point anyways.