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  #701  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 2:38 AM
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No sweat mrjauk, I think that most here are fairly sharp and on top of the current marketplace.
The future is pure speculation, although with an educated twist.
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  #702  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 10:26 PM
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Anyways interesting read in todays globe, but no mention in the Canwest papers. I can't imagine why.
The owners of Millenium speak out.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/s...SON20/TPStory/TPComment/BritishColumbia/

Heres a few of the interesting exerts.

Addressing a host of other issues, the developer said:

When looking at what the yet-to-be-sold condominiums (about 475 out of a total of 737) might sell for, you can't look at what they would fetch on the market today. "You have to look at maybe two, three years out. We haven't moved our waterfront properties yet. We will easily sell the remainder at a price that will allow us to break even in the worst possible scenario."

Addressing a host of other issues, the developer said:

When looking at what the yet-to-be-sold condominiums (about 475 out of a total of 737) might sell for, you can't look at what they would fetch on the market today. "You have to look at maybe two, three years out. We haven't moved our waterfront properties yet. We will easily sell the remainder at a price that will allow us to break even in the worst possible scenario."
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  #703  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 10:46 PM
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Thanks.
Hmmm, a fact based article?
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  #704  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 11:14 PM
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Nicely done Globe!





Millennium speaks, says the job will get done


GARY MASON

[email protected]
January 20, 2009

A tight construction timeline on top of Olympic obligations it assumed from the city of Vancouver put the builder of the controversial 2010 athletes village in a tough spot before a single nail was pounded, says the owner of Millennium Development Corp.

In the company's only interview since controversy around the Olympic village erupted anew two weeks ago, Shahram Malek outlined for The Globe and Mail the series of challenges he says his company faced while building a mammoth, politically sensitive development in the throes of what may be a once-in-a-lifetime recession.

One of the first snags Millennium faced concerned financing, which became difficult to secure because the city maintained title to the land.

"Because of the undertaking it made to VANOC [the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Games] the city put fairly onerous restrictions on the land," Mr. Malek said. "And because of those commitments it didn't want to turn over title. For a typical project it takes six to nine months to get bank approval for a loan. We talked to Canadian lenders and others and the first thing they said to us was: 'This title is not financeable.' "

There were banks still willing to work with Millennium, but they wanted to syndicate the loan - divide it among a number of institutions.

"They couldn't or wouldn't do the whole thing and that was a key issue," Mr. Malek said. "But we didn't have time for syndication because it would have taken nine months to a year that we didn't have. It may have been easier if we had title, but that was not something the city was prepared to give up because of its commitments to VANOC."

With the clock ticking on the project, Millennium was forced to turn to New York hedge funds, known for assuming riskier projects at higher interest rates. Well aware of the desperate situation that Millennium was in, Fortress Investment Group agreed to advance a loan of $750-million at a staggering 11-per-cent interest rate.

Did Fortress gouge Millennium, knowing it had few, if any, options available?

"That's one way of looking at it, but we've never seen it as people extracting something from us or having us over a barrel," Mr. Malek said. "If we had not had the timeline issue we would have had time to negotiate a better deal, prime plus 1 or 2 per cent.
We would have made each phase subject to presale, which is standard. You build one building, get the presale, then build the next.

"We didn't have that option here. We had to build all the buildings at once, regardless of presale, which is another thing that concerned the banks. So Fortress agreed to help us out."


Far from being the disaster for taxpayers that it's being portrayed, the city's agreement with Millennium was "brilliantly" negotiated by its staff "because every single obligation the city had [to VANOC] has been passed on to a private developer."

For instance, Mr. Malek said, there are "carrying costs" incurred during the six months the condominium units will be in the hands of the athletes and the International Olympic Association. Those costs include protecting assets, such as granite countertops and some of the other high-end finishings.

Millennium had to put in carpet, which it will have to rip out and replace with hardwood floors after the Games. To satisfy IOC security standards, extra elevators and stairwells had to be added to all the buildings in which the athletes are staying.

"We estimate that those carrying costs, including interest charges, add up to about $70-million," Mr. Malek said. "Those are Olympic-related costs we are assuming."


When you throw in the costs for soil remediation and site cleanup - about $25-million, which Millennium thought the city was paying for - and the price tag associated with the city-mandated edict that the complex be built to the top environmental standards in the world, Mr. Malek estimates Millennium has spent almost $130-million - on top of the nearly $200-million it paid for the land - on areas that technically should have been covered by the city.

"In total, that's almost $330-million the city is getting first before we get a cent," Mr. Malek said. "It's a sweetheart deal for the city."


Addressing a host of other issues, the developer said:

When looking at what the yet-to-be-sold condominiums (about 475 out of a total of 737) might sell for, you can't look at what they would fetch on the market today. "You have to look at maybe two, three years out. We haven't moved our waterfront properties yet. We will easily sell the remainder at a price that will allow us to break even in the worst possible scenario."

All of the funds built into the budget to cover interest charges may not be needed.


The city and taxpayers are well secured. "What we can assure taxpayers is that any money we've borrowed on this project is secured in terms of the value of our asset and other guarantees we have made. Taxpayers will not lose a cent, I guarantee you."

Millennium does not regard the $100-million loan the city advanced the developer in October as a bailout. "There has not been a bailout ... I think everyone recognizes no developer is a bank and the financial environment is very different than what it was two, three years ago. I was talking recently to one of the largest developers in North America who is having a hard time raising $50-million in a line of credit."

"We are still the developers on this project," Mr. Malek said. "We are convinced 110 per cent we will complete it and the value is going to be there. It will be a profitable situation. People need to believe in us."






And what did Canwest publish today???



City considers releasing Olympic Athletes Village information

VANCOUVER - Vancouver council will consider a request today to review and release all in-camera reports, minutes and motions relating to the Olympic Athletes Village.

Councillor Geoff Meggs told Mayor Gregor Robertson's office that he's already asked Frances Connell, the city's director of legal services, to review all of the documents relating to the development and determine whether they can now be made public.

Staff in Robertson's office said Meggs wants to stop the incessant leaks that have spilled out over confidential dealings around the city-backed development.

The request comes as the city's external auditors, KPMG, work to finish a review of all of the decisions and transactions behind the $1 billion development.

The auditors are expected to file their report to the city by the end of January.

Crucial reports have already been leaked relating to the last council's decision to give project lender Fortress Investment Group a "completion guarantee" and Millennium Developments a $100 million loan.

Those documents have already been posted to The Vancouver Sun's website at www.vancouversun.com/insidetheolympics. [email protected]
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun




Vancouver should directly finance Olympic Village project: city report

Vancouver Sun

Vancouver city staff are recommending that the city begin making plans to directly finance the Olympic Village project after current lender Fortress Investment Group has cut off funding.

A report authored by director of finance Kenneth Bayne outlining the city's financial options in the project is being put to council today.

It recommends that Bayne be authorized to start talking with potential lenders "to put in place a flexible, revolving bank facility with a term of up to four years." It also recommends the city fund construction costs due next month, as negotiations with lenders may not be in place on time.

The report explains that Fortress has said it won't lend beyond its current $317 million commitment under the current deal.

"The lender has indicated that going forward, their involvement will result in a higher interest costs and/or in a smaller loan facility," reads the report.

"As a result, the developer and/or the City will have to identify the balance of the project financing from alternative sources."

Comments from city manager Penny Ballem in the report note that directly financing the project is a "highly unusual role for the City," and adds that it could mean a lowered credit rating and higher borrowing costs for the city.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Last edited by mr.x; Jan 20, 2009 at 11:29 PM.
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  #705  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 3:16 AM
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Another story that sheds positive light on the village, Canwest has no mention of it on their site.

VANOC Chair Jack Poole on Athlete's Village: "There is no plan B"
VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)
Marcella Bernardo | Email news tips to Marcella
1/21/2009

Vancouver's Olympic Organizers are so confident the controversial Athletes Village will be completed on time, they say they have no contingency plans for accomodations.

VANOC Board Chair Jack Poole says there is no 'Plan B'.

"This has to be finished. This is the heart of the Olympics. It must be complete and it will be complete."

Poole is also a prominent real estate developer, and says vancouver taxpayers will end up making a profit from the billion-dollar development.

"This is the tenderloin of real estate left in this city. People from all over the world are already here looking and they're so interested in this development. As a taxpayer I'm not losing sleep over this."

Poole was speaking after VANOC officials announced their operating budget of about $1.6-billion.

The budget has been revised, but VANOC says it is still balanced.

Budget details are expected next week.
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  #706  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 3:33 AM
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^ I wonder if Canwest will even report everything alright with the Olympic Village one or two or three years down the road.
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  #707  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 4:19 AM
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is this project really only 737 units? even at a million a piece, how would they cover their initial loan?
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  #708  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 6:15 AM
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It's a 1100 units in total, the cost also includes a sizable retail component.
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  #709  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 8:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardo88 View Post
is this project really only 737 units? even at a million a piece, how would they cover their initial loan?
Many units are selling for several million.
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  #710  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 2:01 PM
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It's a 1100 units in total, the cost also includes a sizable retail component.
What type of retail is going into SEFC?
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  #711  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 2:37 PM
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Urban Fare & London Drugs are the majors IIRC, probably several smaller ones too.
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  #712  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 3:45 PM
eduardo88 eduardo88 is offline
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Many units are selling for several million.
Yes, but many units are going for under a million too, so probably the average is in under 1.5 million. Does anyone have any info on this?
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  #713  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 4:03 PM
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Well of the approx. 250 units they've sold, they are apparently the cheapest, least desirable units and their prices started at $449K but most seemed much closer to a $1M average.

If the 480ish units remaining are indeed all more prime than I wouldn't be surprised if their average was easily in the $1.5-2M range.
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  #714  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 4:33 PM
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1-2mil avg. for SEFC
bahahahhahaa

oh my
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  #715  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
1-2mil avg. for SEFC
bahahahhahaa

oh my
Well, consider that it is on prime waterfront real estate with the downtown skyline right in front of it....the quality of the development and the fact it's the Olympic Village, there's some sexiness about having the world's best athletes using up 100,000 condoms in 17-days in those buildings.



Anyhow, some good news:
BoC predicts recession will be painful, but short
Bank of Canada sees return to economic growth in late-2009

Updated Thu. Jan. 22 2009 11:58 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The Bank of Canada is predicting that the current recession, though harsh in nature, will be relatively short in duration.

The central bank said Thursday that it looks like Canada's economy will start seeing a recovery by the end of the year, after seeing some contraction during the first half.

In its most recent Monetary Policy Report, the Bank of Canada describes how the global economy has "deteriorated significantly" since the fall seeing "all major advanced economies" become tangled in recession.

In response, central banks started cutting their monetary policy rates and governments created stimulus packages to tackle the recessionary problems they faced. These "extraordinary measure taken by central banks and governments are starting to gain traction," the bank said.

As a result, the "Canadian economy is expected to recover in the second half of 2009 and to grow above potential in 2010, as policy actions begin to take hold, both in Canada and globally," the bank said.

It predicts that the Canadian economy will grow by almost four per cent in 2010.


Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney spoke to reporters in Ottawa on Thursday morning to discuss the outlook put forward in the Monetary Policy Report.

The bank governor said "it will take some time" for Canadians to see conditions return to normal in their economy.

"In Canada, our exports are down sharply and domestic demand is shrinking as a result of declines in real incomes, household wealth and confidence," he said.

"Canada's economy is projected to contract through mid-2009 with real GDP dropping by 1.2 per cent on an average annual basis."

In the second-half of 2009, Canadians should see their economy gradually returning "to potential," he said.

The bank governor said the bank expects this recession will not last as long as the recession seen in the 1990s for several reasons, including the fact that Canada is in better overall financial health than it was at that time.
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  #716  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 5:47 PM
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^hahahaha...

but i still laugh at how people perceive to have 'waterfront' property if they live in false creek. With 1-2mil i would be in kits, english bay, or coal.
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  #717  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 5:53 PM
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Really? SEFC would probably be one of my first choices, I just love the south side of false creek. Super close to downtown, super close to broadway, granville island and the restaurants of W 4th. and right on the seawall. I think I would go for somewhere more in the fairview slopes area, right by the market, but SEFC definetly has its merrits too and may win out for me in the end if the finished product is as good as it looks like it may be. I really like the idea of the densities being pushed down into smaller closer buildings with a more intimate feeling neighbourhood. It's all preference though, I do see the appeal of Coal Harbour or Kits (especially considering I live in Kits right now).
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  #718  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 5:55 PM
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Water is water, and space is space.

Coal Harbour is nice and all, but unless your near the top, it's very shady and feels cold most of the time.

SEFC may be priced high, but it's not that out of whack, especially considered everything it has going for it.
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  #719  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 6:10 PM
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^hahahaha...

but i still laugh at how people perceive to have 'waterfront' property if they live in false creek. With 1-2mil i would be in kits, english bay, or coal.
You don't know your Vancouver.
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  #720  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 6:17 PM
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I think one of the earlier reports put the average for all units in the $800-$850k range.
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