Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Metro-One]

Hmm, that starts to become a little trivial for a transit system, "these doors open...sometimes" does not really make the best sense here. I feel only the Expo line needs to be extended to accommodate 6 car trains. But if their future plan is to extend M-Line as well then they should build the evergreen and UBC extension at the 110m, but just run 4 car trains until the entire length of the system is 110 m.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by AKA-007

^ Also, couldn't you run the 6-car Mark II's over the entire millenium/evergreen route and just not open the doors to the final car until you reach the start of the longer stations. In theory, that should work so long as people recognise at the previous stations that the final segment of the train is closed until VCC/Main area.

Third world transit system.

[twoNeurons]

They would likely build the stations with the ability to be expanded, just like the current M-Line is able to be expanded.

As for the doors being closed for the half the line... that wouldn't work well. If one car was only "open" for part of the line, then any passengers would be stuck if they didn't get off that car.

If anything, there would need to be cars that have doors that extend past the platform, but there is still access to the car through one or two sets of doors on shorter platforms. This is done in some metros. There is an announcement saying the rear doors won't open at the next station, or something.

[deasine]

I just think that shows how cheap a system is. As much as I know that method will work, I don't want it here.

Here's a great rendering of dleung's concept for the Millennium Line. Of course, there's a few things he could change here and there... but the plan is quite amazing:

Originally Posted by dleung

This is my hoped for (and expected) configuration for the UBC extension of the M-line:



I really should have put a North arrow, but bear with me on this little tour... starting with the last stops on the existing intersection of the Expo and existing Millenium line:


Prince Edward Street station would probably be built long after the line is complete as there is nothing there right now, but will soon become part of a high-density technology zone in the False creek flats. I didn't draw columns, but from VCC-clark it continues as elevated guideway and drops to grade just before Prince Edward station and cuts into the hillside as cut-and-cover tunnel.


Kingsway Station will have entrances off of 3 arteries: Main, Kingsway and Broadway. The tunnel will arrive at the station in a stacked configuration underneath 10th Ave.


The expected interchange with the Canada Line:


The stacked cut-and-cover configuration continues under 10th all the way to Alma, before switching to bored tunnel to handle the typography and to save the commercial strip around Sasamat.


Right after Blanca, the tunnel switches to side by side configuration and opens up to a trench down the middle of University Blvd.


The track becomes elevated once more, giving the most scenic views from any urban mass transit system in the world. Part of the rationalle is to allow for some chance of restoring a continuity between ecosystems north and south of University blvd... but I don't know about how sound pollution factors into it.


Before reaching the point grey campus and neighbourhood the track drops into a trench and runs down the median of University blvd, with stations just before westbrook mall and just after main mall.

Hope you enjoyed the ride =)

[mr.x]

Not much I can really say there.....it was perfect, simply orgasmic. Well actually, there's one thing I'm not too sure of: trenches west of Blanca.

Well done!!!


edit: probably not enough space for a stacked station at Cambie, the Canada Line tunnel is still shallow there.

[raggedy13]

Very nice vision by dleung. There is little there to argue with aside from the things mr.x2 just mentioned. Having a trench through the middle of campus seems a little less than ideal. Considering how much ridership share the UBC section will have it seems justifiable to do a proper tunnel, especially if the University was willing to pitch a little extra money in (made from residential development in the Endowment Lands perhaps).

I wasn't so sure about two stations on campus at first (it isn't entirely necessary) but having one by the Village and one in a more central location would be pretty ideal. It's a big campus with many areas blocked off to cars and no real cross-campus bus service so your only options for getting around are by foot or by bike which can take awhile. One by the Village makes sense because it is the primary commercial node on campus and is reasonably close to both student and private housing near that end of campus. A station near Main Mall and University Blvd also works nicely since it is more central to classrooms than the Village, closer to the Vanier, Marine Drive, and Totem student residences, and provides quicker access to Wreck Beach, Nitobe Gardens, Thunderbird Stadium, and the Museum of Anthropology than a Village station. Also, looking at Google Maps, the distance between two such stations would be only slightly closer together than the Arbutus and Granville stations for example.

[Vancity]

Wow. That plan from dleung is quite incredible! if that vision is realized, we'd have a pretty good transit system in our city, moving people to and fro. How much of that diagram from dleung is actually realized today? The canada line is coming along, but a lot of those stations aren't realized - just yet. I hope this comes to fruition, wouldn't that be amazing, transit wise for Vancouver. What an amazing vision. If Vancouver's city council only had that type of vision, and dream, we'd be a great(er) city.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Street cars, trams and light rail are good, and there should be some built in Vancouver, there is no doubt about that, there is no doubt that they as better than having buses. But they are good as upgrades to bus lines, not a rapid transit. a street car network in downtown vancouver would be great, hell one day they'll probably have skytrain lines and street cars serving the same corridors. But proposing on-street LRT that is like a streetcar is ridiculous. If we had no skytrain, and lots of LRT lines already, then it would make sense to make more LRT. But it makes no sense to build one a two as a cheapout to building a skytrain

What advantage does a streetcar really have over something like an articulated trolley bus? Isn't it just a matter or priority lanes and signaling, if anything? I like the idea of a streetcar, but I also like the idea of leveraging what we have.

[DKaz]

Wowwww... I thought I died and went to rapid transit heaven. *drool*

[geoff's two cents]

I particularly like the thought of the track being elevated through UBC - It would make for an enjoyable transit experience indeed. At its best, the splendid views are what makes a lengthy Skytrain commute more bearable than, say, a TTC subway ride from end to end. We should exploit them as much as possible. . .

[Kodii]

I think I just fell in love.

I don't think I've ever heard a proposal of having the end station at Main Mall and University Boulevard, but when thought about, it is an excellent idea! Especially since it doesn't involve the flattening of a certain knoll that "we" all know and "love".

[mr.x]

Bulldoze the knoll....like seriously, 🞵🞵🞵??? These students are just looking for things to complain about; they just love 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 off the administration and gov'ts.

[igeneer]

Hey everyone, I've been checking out this thread (and the Canad Line one) for the past month and really enjoy seeing your photos and commentary.

Just like to say that I agree with [geoff's two cents] about having skytrain at UBC elevated. I', spending a year over in England and whenever I take the Piccadilly Line to Heathrow, the underground seems is very tedious and somewhat boring. It's much nicer to see the scenery around you!

I'm curious to hear about what you guys do (especially mr. x2, DKaz, etc), as it seems you seem to really know what's going on with these projects. I am about to start a masters thesis, hopefully focusing on reducing car dependence in the Vancouver area. Any ideas??

Look forward to seeing more photos of the station interiors!
And to maybe post a bit more in the coming days

[igeneer]

sorry, I was referring to photos of Canada Line stations...

[djh]

Originally Posted by deasine

Here's a great rendering of dleung's concept for the Millennium Line. Of course, there's a few things he could change here and there... but the plan is quite amazing:

Hey deasine, can you post a link to the original thread in which dleung posted his incredible vision? Thanks :-)

[racc]

There is really no chance that cut and cover would be used. There is really no advantage on this line and residents and businesses along the line would not be very happy at all. Boring is really no more expensive. The only reason they used cut and cover for the Canada Line is to ensure they would finish by the Olympic imposed deadline. If you fall behind schedule with cut and cover, you simply open up another front.

Stacked cut and cover might be even more expensive than boring. You need to dig deeper. This would be an issue at Cambie to get under the Canada Line Guideway. Notice they only stacked where they absolutely had to along Cambie. The transitions between stacked and side-by-side are complicated and expensive to build as well.

There is also the VGH emergency entrance on 10h as well as the Firehall at Granvillle. Access would need to be maintained.

Assuming we have no big event coming to town creating a deadline for this, just stick the boring machine into the ground and it finishes when it finishes.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

Bulldoze the knoll....like seriously, 🞵🞵🞵??? These students are just looking for things to complain about; they just love 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 off the administration and gov'ts.

3 years at ubc and i've been on it twice. Its going to come down sooner or later. I don't agree with an underground bus-loop though, thats just screaming for failure down the road.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by racc

There is really no chance that cut and cover would be used. There is really no advantage on this line and residents and businesses along the line would not be very happy at all. Boring is really no more expensive. The only reason they used cut and cover for the Canada Line is to ensure they would finish by the Olympic imposed deadline. If you fall behind schedule with cut and cover, you simply open up another front.

Stacked cut and cover might be even more expensive than boring. You need to dig deeper. This would be an issue at Cambie to get under the Canada Line Guideway. Notice they only stacked where they absolutely had to along Cambie. The transitions between stacked and side-by-side are complicated and expensive to build as well.

There is also the VGH emergency entrance on 10h as well as the Firehall at Granvillle. Access would need to be maintained.

Assuming we have no big event coming to town creating a deadline for this, just stick the boring machine into the ground and it finishes when it finishes.

Cut and cover should cheaper than boring, but yea I do generally agree with you.

As for the decision to go with cut and cover rather than boring with the Canada Line, it had a lot to do with cost as well besides just the Olympic deadline. And I'm sure geology/volcanic rock was given consideration.

The main benefit of cut and cover would be shallow stations....no long tunnel passages to get to the station platform; ease in accessibility.

But given what happened on Cambie, I'm quite sure politics will come into play to have it bored.....mentioning cut and cover again might be political suicide.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

3 years at ubc and i've been on it twice. Its going to come down sooner or later. I don't agree with an underground bus-loop though, thats just screaming for failure down the road.

The underground bus loop concept works.....the only problem I have with it is that it's far too small, way too small. And the design gives bus drivers very little clearance.....obviously, the people who made the initial designs have never seen how bus drivers drive - especially at the UBC loop (onto curbs, hitting signs, etc.). As well, the trolleys won't be going underground but will remain above.

[wrenegade]

dleung's plan is absolutely stunning. As with what other's have said, I wouldn't go for a trench down University Blvd. Cut and cover would suffice for sure. Bringing the line up to an elevated guideway just before the start the the residential area is interesting, especially for the views, but I think the change from underground to elevated would be a little too expensive for it to be worthwhile. Two stations at UBC is an interesting idea as well, but the way the campus is set up a single station at E Mall/old bus loop would probably suffice. An extra 5-10 mins of walking isn't that big of a deal, considering how the campus is set up pretty well for walking now. It would also save likely millions of dollars for a new station.