Tempe Development Thread

[plinko]

Originally Posted by combusean

^ jsm, when you're making an addition to a historic building, the preservationists prefer that which is built new contrasts to that which existed there already.

the idea is that the historic aspects aren't masked, but simply exist on their own so you can actually still see what is historic and what isn't.

Living in Santa Barbara now, I really wish the local 'preservationists' would read the standards that way. Unfortunately they don't and everything here ends up looking like a wedding cake in an architectural style that never existed. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get a frameless glass door in an existing stone arch here. Revisionist history knows no bounds.

Three cheers for a historical preservation project that might actually follow those standards.

As far as the mill goes, I have no issue with the new work as long as it integrates the silos into the project, rather than setting them aside as museum pieces. They've served their purpose, they need a new one.

[Jsmscaleros]

I get what you're saying - I would like to see something new as well. But I don't see how a glass box that is both larger and directly next to the silos compliments history. Rather than looking like an homage to the history of the site, it looks more like the developer would prefer to get rid of them, but can't because they're historic.

Something low-rise that still allows the silo to be the focal point of the site would be much more preferable as a testament to the significance the Mill had in Tempe's history - not some hodge-podge of boxes scattered around that completely dwarf the original structure. I'm completely in favor of a modern statement on the site, but there's "architecture" and there's architecture... I think the the importance of the site given its context deserves the later.

[SethAZ]

I heard from a business owner i know on Mill that the word on the street is Whole Foods is going into the Borders spot. He said it's just a rumor, but whatever. I'd still rather see a gym go in there.

[Jsmscaleros]

Originally Posted by SethAZ

I heard from a business owner i know on Mill that the word on the street is Whole Foods is going into the Borders spot. He said it's just a rumor, but whatever. I'd still rather see a gym go in there.

A Whole Foods would be great - both downtown Tempe and downtown Phoenix are missing critical essentials like this. Grocery first, gyms, bookstores, etc... later in my opinion.

[glynnjamin]

The whole damn LRT line is missing grocery stores. Super Target (limited grocery), two Fry's that are less than a mile from each other and never have anything, AJs (overpriced & limited grocery), a Food City (cheaper Mexican Basha's) and then there is nothing until you hit the Safeway in Mesa. How are there no Trader Joes, Fresh & Easys, or Whole Foods anywhere on the line. Those are the stores that basically cater to the yuppie LRT crowd. Grocery stores need to be close to the line because you can't haul your stuff a mile outside before you get on the train.

[ciweiss]

That would be cool. Although I'm not sure what the parking situation looks like for that Borders location. I remember some urban Fred Myer stores in Portland that worked well because they had huge parking garages underneath them. I don't think there would be a huge number of people taking a bunch of groceries on the lightrail. Especially if they are going 5-10 blocks in on the train and then that many blocks home. If it was right on the rail line maybe.

[ciweiss]

According to this blog there is another market/deli opening at Hayden Ferry Lakeside in Feb.

http://www.urbanrealtyaz.com/Blog/Downto...City_Market_and_Deli_Opening_at_HFL.html

If this is true there might be some options in the Dtown area... CVS, etc. That is good for the Downtowners whom don't like to drive all the way to the Safeway on Rural or the should be demolished Fred Myers (edit - sorry - I meant Fry's) on Mill. Getting through campus can be a biotch sometimes...

[Tempe_Duck]

Originally Posted by ciweiss

According to this blog there is another market/deli opening at Hayden Ferry Lakeside in Feb.

http://www.urbanrealtyaz.com/Blog/Downto...City_Market_and_Deli_Opening_at_HFL.html

If this is true there might be some options in the Dtown area... CVS, etc. That is good for the Downtowners whom don't like to drive all the way to the Safeway on Rural or the should be demolished Fred Myers on Mill. Getting through campus can be a biotch sometimes...

What Fred Myers are you talking about? Mill and what?

[nickkoto]

The Fry's on Mill and Southern used to be a Fred Meyer's. It's been a Fry's for at least 5 or 6 years now.

[Tempe_Duck]

Ah, ok. That place does look horrible from the street. They need to remodel at least the front of the place.

[ciweiss]

Sorry - I meant the Frys.

[NorthScottsdale]

i never knew we ever had fred meyers in phoenix

[Jsmscaleros]

Hypothetically speaking (and ignoring the current state of the economy and housing markets), what kind of developments do you think the Mill Ave. district should pursue for long-term success? This is meant to be a brainstorm... try to post ideas that might seem ridiculous.

My ideas (some of which I am aware are not original but I think are worth revisiting):
-Develop the heaps of vacant lots (N of University and W of Ash Ave.) with affordable rentals with ground-level retail... I can't think of any vibrant downtown in the country that doesn't have a good range of people with different incomes living in relatively close proximity.

-Bring back the movie theater! The loss of Centerpoint is still being felt by surrounding retailers...

-Extend LRT hours on weekends to 3am (last train from end-of-line stations at 2am).

-Moderately lower rents to woo back independent retailers and restaurants. In an area where only chain franchises can afford the rent, that is all we will continue to get.

-Spread the downtown to encompass Ash. Every time I drive through downtown Tempe, I'm amazed by the perpetual log-jam that is Mill Ave., while Ash is always completely dead. With no focal point to lure pedestrian traffic off Mill Ave., businesses that spring up east and west of the main strip never get anywhere close to the draw they'd like.

-"Bury" Mill Ave. to create an unobstructed pedestrian zone. The tunnel could divert traffic underneath Mill from University to Rio Salado.

-Rather than build a tunnel, make Mill Ave. pedestrian only and re-route traffic down Ash (since nobody uses it anyway).

-Host touring pop/rock bands at the new Tempe Center for the Arts to bring a large event crowd downtown (what goes on in there, anyway? Seems like they made a huge investment on a world-class theater and arts center that hangs off the downtown area like a dead arm).

[nickkoto]

Less condos, more apartments.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Jsmscaleros

-"Bury" Mill Ave. to create an unobstructed pedestrian zone. The tunnel could divert traffic underneath Mill from University to Rio Salado.

That sounds like a terrible idea IMHO. Mill is a major thoroughfare and part of what makes the environment is the cars going by, it would feel like Desert Ridge, Westgate, etc with out the street down the middle.

[Jsmscaleros]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

That sounds like a terrible idea IMHO. Mill is a major thoroughfare and part of what makes the environment is the cars going by, it would feel like Desert Ridge, Westgate, etc with out the street down the middle.

Interesting point - I see what you mean. I can think of a few differences, however, first and foremost being that Westgate/Desert Ridge/Tempe Marketplace are all suburban shopping malls and are not at a city center surrounded by major businesses, a university, and the most dense city core in terms of population per square mile Arizona (sad, but true). Because of its location, making Mill pedestrian only would take on a different and better dynamic, I believe.

Another reason why having a pedestrian only Mill Avenue could be a good thing for Tempe would be the ease of hosting cultural events downtown. Currently, traffic has to be re-routed to Ash. Ave anyway for any significant event downtown... the task (and cost) of barricading a street for several blocks no doubt stands in the way of several cultural events that could be planned much more easily if Mill was already blocked off and ready to rock for things like the Festival of Arts, the Tempe Music Festival, the New Year's Block Party, etc...

Also, permanently routing traffic along Ash Ave. might spark the same kind of urban developments we see on Mill Ave. today along a street that is largely plagued by vacant dirt lots. I would much rather have two streets of entertainment, shopping, nightlife, and businesses than just one.

I do understand the Desert Ridge argument (and that, frankly, is my personal hell) - but given Mill Avenue's context in the heart of the city, I can't see that happening should it be made pedestrian only.

[ciweiss]

-Develop the heaps of vacant lots (N of University and W of Ash Ave.) with affordable rentals with ground-level retail... I can't think of any vibrant downtown in the country that doesn't have a good range of people with different incomes living in relatively close proximity.

Agreed. Affordable but not to cheap. I would do a office condo/art gallery/retail mix.


-Bring back the movie theater! The loss of Centerpoint is still being felt by surrounding retailers...

Agreed. But let that theater serve beer and make the movies a bit cheaper.

-Extend LRT hours on weekends to 3am (last train from end-of-line stations at 2am).

Yes +any holidays or big events

-Moderately lower rents to woo back independent retailers and restaurants. In an area where only chain franchises can afford the rent, that is all we will continue to get.

Couldn't agree more. Work with mom and pops to fill the empty stores. I would put in a big indy/used bookstore to fill Borders.

-Spread the downtown to encompass Ash. Every time I drive through downtown Tempe, I'm amazed by the perpetual log-jam that is Mill Ave., while Ash is always completely dead. With no focal point to lure pedestrian traffic off Mill Ave., businesses that spring up east and west of the main strip never get anywhere close to the draw they'd like.

Yes - I would do a office condo/art gallery/commercial mix. Not just commercial. esp in this economy.

-"Bury" Mill Ave. to create an unobstructed pedestrian zone. The tunnel could divert traffic underneath Mill from University to Rio Salado.

Not sure about that one.

-Rather than build a tunnel, make Mill Ave. pedestrian only and re-route traffic down Ash (since nobody uses it anyway).

Yes - if nothing else close it at 3pm on Fridays till Sunday night.

-Host touring pop/rock bands at the new Tempe Center for the Arts to bring a large event crowd downtown (what goes on in there, anyway? Seems like they made a huge investment on a world-class theater and arts center that hangs off the downtown area like a dead arm).

Start having more bands playing in the bars like the olden days. I would do a first Fridays (or 2nd Fridays) for an Art walk and 3rd Saturdays for a free (or cheap) band night. The bands during new years were awesome

On top of this some art galleries. Live music (of all kinds). When Mill was named one of the top 10 streets take a look at the other 9 and see if we are missing anything else.

Great thoughts all!

[glynnjamin]

More performance space! A bunch of two or three story live/work spaces that border the street (like Roosevelt Row) OR put them in a horseshoe shape facing the street to create a piazza-type area where bands could play (like Hayden Square). Something like this, where the X are stores and the dashes are the street. The center space could be pre-wired for power and a PA system.

xxxxxxxxx
x x
x x
x x
x x
------------

Cheap rent should be a must (no more than $12/sqft)
Live/work space is a must to get the art community and up & coming entrepreneurs to utilize it.

[Jsmscaleros]

Tempe Photo Update:

December 17, 2008:

Downtown Phoenix from Hayden Butte:


Centerpoint Condos:


Center/Veteran's Way Sta. and Tempe Transportation Center:


Center/Veteran's Way Sta.:


LRT crossing Town Lake Bridge:


Tempe Town Lake and Downtown Phoenix:


January 20, 2009:

Hayden Ferry Lakeside:


Hayden Ferry Lakeside interior court:


Tempe Town Lake, Grigio and Aloft Hotel (left) and Hayden Ferry Lakeside (right):


Tempe Skyline:


Hayden Flour Mill:


Centerpoint Towers (UC - delayed):


Tempe Gateway Building (US Airways offices + retail):

[Vicelord John]

I came to the decision about a month ago that I would rather live just about anywhere within a mile of downtown Tempe rather than downtown Phoenix. Stop posting pictures and making me drool, or I just may do it.