HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #6361  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2009, 6:49 PM
Just-In-Cali's Avatar
Just-In-Cali Just-In-Cali is offline
Urbanite in Suburbia
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles Metro
Posts: 563
^^ Wow...even I was impressed by that rant. I agree totally with what edluva said. He even restrained from the insulting tone I have grown accustomed too. Very Nice.
The phrase "hundreds of neighborhoods in search of a center" is very true about Los Angeles. We dont have a "core"...we have a downtown. We have at least 4 downtowns actually. Once we link these by a round the clock comprehensive transist system, we will remain a splintered megalopolis. LA has much going for it, but does have several albatrosses around its neck too.
     
     
  #6362  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2009, 5:48 AM
citywatch citywatch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,732
^ We will remain a "splintered megalopolis?" That means you don't believe transit is the magic pill that will cure all of LA's urban weaknesses?

Sounds reasonable to me.

BTW, tonight I've just had to put up with the 210 fwy going east towards Ontario & the traffic was bumper to bumper. So no one needs to tell me how idiotic we all are for limiting options in transportation. Moreover, why do ppl (assuming they're sane) think a slow, long commute to the distant burbs is worth all the time & frustration? Are hoods like rancho cucamonga, or santa margarita, or god knows where, worth the ridiculous commute?

I shake my head in amazement.

Another thing: I cannot tell you the number of times I've been stuck on the various fwys that encircle DT, packed with cars, & then take an offramp into DT only to discover many of its streets are surprisingly quiet, sometimes even empty.

I guess all the ppl on those crowded fwys would rather put up with the congestion, & drive miles & miles past DT, instead of stopping off in DT &, better yet, maybe even eventually moving to or working in the hood?

Oh, and Century city & the hoods around Bev Hills & UCLA have attracted so many ppl & businesses cuz they're so much more accessible to ppl? Cuz they have so much more access to transit than DT?

Oh, yea, uh huh, whatever you say.

So it comes down to chicken or egg.

What came first?

Limited & lousy public transit in LA? Or hoods with lousy reputations that many ppl see as fugly, dangerous, depressing? Hoods they want to avoid or limit their time in, regardless of how accessible such areas are, by way of either fwys, buses, subways, trains, or all of the above.

I'll repeat: few hoods in all of LA & SoCa have as many transit connections as DTLA, even more so with the completion of the red line, blue line & gold lines. Also, few hoods in all of LA & soCa have as many fwys directly around it it as DTLA.

That's a big reason why I say that if ppl believe a better transit system in LA is the magic bullet that will transform DT into a fantastic place, booming with happy ppl & thriving businesses, then they're setting themselves up for disappointment.

Now don't get me wrong. We need better transit, cuz what we have now makes us a bigger version of a backwater town. But we need that mainly cuz not everyone should be forced into a car (or bus) & onto a fwy. More importantly, we need improved transit cuz traffic has gotten so bad that trips between one hood to another have become a huge chore to many ppl.

But for anyone to assume----&, again, it's the question of chicken or egg----that improving transit comes first & foremost to the goal of making DT less of a letdown, then not only are they setting themselves up for big disappointment, but they're denying some of the tough realities of LA, & its ppl & its history, for better or worse.

And that's assuming that finding enough $$, & having enough patience, & getting the MTA & other agencies to move fast enough on projs like the red line will allow their dream of an ideal----or much better----city to come true way before many of us are nearing retirement age.

As to the question of how to get rid of all the deadzones in hoods like DT? Well, I'll admit that due to legal & economic restrictions, that is one problem that will be tough to accomplish. That's mainly cuz property owners still have the ultimate sway & power in most of these matters. More importantly, that's cuz many devlprs can't make enough $$ on projs in DTLA as they can in other hoods or other cities, esp those similar to NYC or hong Kong, or even vancouver.

As for a drastic way to get rid of deadzones? Some may want to be sarcastic & say "pray for a selectively powerful, huge earthquake". But even that won't take care of all the flat & fugly parking lots throughout hoods like DT.

In spite of all this, cleaning up DT is no tougher a goal than extending the red line to SaMo. Or getting as many ppl to use the gold line between DT & Pasadena as the number that use the subways in NYC, washington DC, or chicago.

Another thing: no matter what college textbook theories or mind melding at a cocktail party may make ppl admire or believe, ultimately its the masses out there saying either "yah" or "nay" that will determine how things turn out.

So while it's OK to — about new devlpt that isn't very sophisticated----as might be heard at a snooty cocktail party where everyone loves to talk about their days studying college textbooks-----make sure to also — about things that are way, way, way worse. For example, complain about all the old roach motel apt bldgs throughout DT that are a major reason many ppl still see DTLA as a hood that only the desperate, poor & hard up end up in.

In light of that, bitching about things like the following is similar to someone bitching about subways cuz, in their minds, they're too $$, too dark, too socialized, too new Yorkish, too likely to take $$ aways from buses (or the argument of the Bus Riders Union):


Quote:
Despite the slumping economy and falling rental rates, his Brentwood-based company, G.H. Palmer Associates, expects to break ground on Piero II, a 335-unit apartment building at Sixth and Bixel streets, at the end of the month. The project abuts the original 225-unit Piero, which was completed in 2004.

On Friday, Jan. 23, Palmer's latest proposed Downtown project, the 670-unit Da Vinci, will have its first hearing before the city Planning Department, initiating a process that, barring any major hiccups, would allow for a 2011 groundbreaking, Palmer said via email.

A pioneer of the Downtown residential development scene, Palmer's company has built six of their signature buildings in the area, encompassing 2,214 completed units.

More important to the company's success Downtown than its sheer volume and pace is the high occupancy rate of its properties.

"I currently have less than six months of inventory available to lease in these current market conditions," Palmer said. "The market is absorbing new units at 25 per month. In six months I expect to be out of inventory of new available units."

With natural turnover, Palmer said his Downtown properties maintain an occupancy rate higher than 90%
.
     
     
  #6363  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2009, 8:24 AM
Just-In-Cali's Avatar
Just-In-Cali Just-In-Cali is offline
Urbanite in Suburbia
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles Metro
Posts: 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just-In-Cali View Post
^^ Wow...even I was impressed by that rant. I agree totally with what edluva said. He even restrained from the insulting tone I have grown accustomed too. Very Nice.
The phrase "hundreds of neighborhoods in search of a center" is very true about Los Angeles. We dont have a "core"...we have a downtown. We have at least 4 downtowns actually. Once we link these by a round the clock comprehensive transist system, we will remain a splintered megalopolis. LA has much going for it, but does have several albatrosses around its neck too.
To fix this quote so certain smarty pants in here dont try and run with it ..I meant to fix this to say..."Once we link these by a round the clock comprehensive transist system, we will NO LONGER remain a splintered megalopolis. LA has much going for it, but does have several albatrosses around its neck too.[/

I mispoke...so NO..city...I do believe that transportation is paramount in the current situation. Deadzones are also a big problem, but i would put that second or third.
     
     
  #6364  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2009, 9:51 PM
edkao's Avatar
edkao edkao is offline
Californication
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 110
L.A. Comes Alive

Hi All,

There is a show on Fox Sports West called L.A. Comes Alive.

It follows L.A Kings players and Laker Players exploring L.A. Live.

A little behind the scenes look at all L.A. Live has to offer.

Ed
     
     
  #6365  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2009, 11:43 PM
QuarterMileSidewalk's Avatar
QuarterMileSidewalk QuarterMileSidewalk is offline
Laissez-Faire Forever!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fontana, California
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by edluva View Post
remember, the main point of expanding mass transit is to enable regular folks to create an alternative way of life that is competitive with one centered around driving. once you accomplish that, the deadzones will build themselves out of existence. and they will be pretty too. but most importantly, LA will finally develop a clear picture of what it actually is.
Then again, what if the Southland is defined by its lack of a cultural and economic center? What other metropolis has so many attractions so far out in the suburbs? People may still avoid Downtown (leaving those deadzones) and other areas even with the transit networks in place... even now, more people commute and seek entertainment from suburb to suburb than to the central city. Will a fully realized mass transit network really do more than make the current patterns of movement cheaper? I'm definitely not saying that transit wouldn't be incredibly beneficial to the average person, though, like you said.

I would like to see downtown become a greater draw, but I would also like to see the smaller urban centers become more vibrant and relevant as well... perhaps these 18 million people don't need (or want) to be defined by a single center. Perhaps the future of this city is for everything to become a destination... Impossible for someone to ever see everything the city has to offer...

Just a thought.
     
     
  #6366  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2009, 12:49 AM
edluva edluva is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,118
^the destinations already exist within the core. la already has a cultural center. we're not starting from scratch here. a compact rail network will merely encourage that portion of the metro to continue along its already predetermined trajectory of being the largest single concentration of employment and culture in the southland.

the aim of a fully realized system isn't simply to make movement cheaper, it's to make movement possible. this goal isn't mutually exclusive with the multi-nodal metro you're suggesting. both scenarios can be true of the southland, and already is to a great degree, only they're reaching a critical limitation because of congestion. rail merely intensifies the centers that do exist.
     
     
  #6367  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2009, 2:10 AM
RAlossi RAlossi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,573
FYI, Angels Flight's new drive and brake system was being tested out yesterday. Great to see Sinai and Olivet climbing and descending Bunker Hill!

Looks like we may see it finally open within a month or two.

Video here:
http://angelenic.com/6656/
     
     
  #6368  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2009, 4:40 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,100
^ Thank god; we've been waiting years for that — to be finished.
     
     
  #6369  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2009, 8:14 AM
Kingofthehill's Avatar
Kingofthehill Kingofthehill is offline
International
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oslo
Posts: 4,046
here's a pic from this afternoon:

     
     
  #6370  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 1:01 AM
ladowntowner ladowntowner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: DTLA
Posts: 441
^ That's the exact angle I was speaking of when I said that the Ritz would appear to be taller than anything else downtown, due to the illusion of perspective... Thanks!
     
     
  #6371  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 3:41 PM
QuarterMileSidewalk's Avatar
QuarterMileSidewalk QuarterMileSidewalk is offline
Laissez-Faire Forever!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fontana, California
Posts: 340
^^ That's from the 10, right? Love seeing it from that angle... It makes Downtown seem so huge... looming ahead, as it were... Great shot!
     
     
  #6372  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 6:38 PM
StethJeff's Avatar
StethJeff StethJeff is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,066
Looks more like from the 110.
     
     
  #6373  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 9:23 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,100
Well, looking northeast, it's likely the 10.
     
     
  #6374  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 9:48 PM
leftopolis leftopolis is offline
Earthling
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San José
Posts: 1,360
In the pic a few posts up...There's a second crane adjacent to the (tall) ritz crane which appears to be part of the same project. There's a third crane to the right of that(at about the same hight), which is obviously an unconnected other project. Can anyone clarify for me , wrt cranes #2 and #3? Thanks in advance.
     
     
  #6375  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 10:49 PM
colemonkee's Avatar
colemonkee colemonkee is offline
Ridin' into the sunset
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 9,289
leftopolis, the 2nd crane (in the middle) is for the low-rise portion of the Ritz-Carlton tower. The shorter crane on the right is for Concerto.

And the rest of you, I would go as far as to bet 16.25 pieces of Bazooka Joe bubble gum that that shot was taken from 10 East right before passing over the 110. How do I know? Other than driving that route nearly every day for the last 3 years, you can tell by:

1) The height and position of the Ritz. It appears much taller on the 110 north due primarily to the 110 being lower than the 10, and until you get VERY close to the Ritz on the 110 (almost underneath it) the Ritz appears the left of the Ernst & Young tower.

2) In the picture, there are cars traveling in the same direction (east) on the other side of a separated and elevated median (note the lack of ground between the medians). The 10 east splits right before you cross over the 110, with the three north lanes giving access to the 110 North and through lanes, and the three south lanes as through lanes with the right lane exiting to Grand Ave. This picture is taken from the right most lane on that stretch of the 10, NOT counting the access road to the 110 South/Adams exit.

Booyakasha!
     
     
  #6376  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 1:03 AM
BrandonJXN's Avatar
BrandonJXN BrandonJXN is offline
Ascension
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 5,420
^ Yeah so I'm waiting for my Bazooka Joe. I haven't had Bazooka Joe in ages. But now that I think of it, those things are comparable to chewing bricks so you can keep it.
     
     
  #6377  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 1:15 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,100
^ Your making my mouth water....I could chew on that stuff for hours....
     
     
  #6378  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 1:23 AM
BrandonJXN's Avatar
BrandonJXN BrandonJXN is offline
Ascension
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riverside, California
Posts: 5,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
^ Your making my mouth water....I could chew on that stuff for hours....
My intentions were surely NOT to make your mouth water.

     
     
  #6379  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 5:03 AM
citywatch citywatch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,732
DT as viewed from around the SW looks the most impressive. I know there are some sightlines of DT as seen from around the baldwin hills area that can make a person (even a rather blase one) wanna sit up & think, "wow, something big is taking place over there!" Baldwin hills, btw, generally is that part of town located somewhat between 2 points that run from LAX to DT.

btw, just-in-cali, maybe your first statement about future trends was a freudian slip? I'm sure you'll wanna say otherwise, which is why I ask you to observe the way most ppl around you----your friends, SOs, spouses, coworkers, relatives, parents, neighbors, ppl in general----lead their daily lives.

Or I ask you to recall a study done last yr that showed even most ppl who live in DTLA or in supposedly new transit friendly devlpt don't use mass transit as much as planners thought they would or hoped for, & still rely on personal transportation, mainly cars, to get to work or wherever.

I don't say that happily or approvingly. I'm mentioning it cuz it's just simple reality.

That's why if anyone believes that transit is the magic bullet that will cure the ailments of LA, esp DT, they're setting themselves up for major disappointment.

However, I'd change my mind about that if $1 trillion----or, better yet, $ quadtrillion----suddenly became available for improving transit in LA over the next 5 to 10 yrs. And if we suddenly had as many, if not more, red line subways as we have fwys. Either that, or if all of us could be guaranteed to live until we're at least 100 to 120 yrs old.

But, sorry, that's not the real world.

Another thing: the most important thing that has occurred over the past several yrs in fixing up DT, & making it less of a big deadzone, has not been the improvement of LA's transit system per se, & esp the opening of the red line. No, it's been the devlpt of new housing in the hood.

Here's a hypothetical: suppose much easier & faster ways suddenly were created in LA to allow ppl living in DT to get to other parts of town. Might some of those ppl not start thinking: "why should I live in DT when it's no longer a big headache driving to SaMo or Venice, or the hoods around UCLA?!"

At that point, one could say that an improved mass transit system in LA actually was having the unintended consequences of making DT less competitive in the eyes of the various ppl who'd rather be living near the coast, or farther away from a lot of air pollution, or homeless ppl, & other problems associated with the inner city.

That's why I say that the devlpt of things like new (& nice) housing & efforts to get rid of all the deadzones throughout DT outweighs the importance of transit in turning around & improving the hood.
     
     
  #6380  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 6:34 AM
LosAngelesBeauty's Avatar
LosAngelesBeauty LosAngelesBeauty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,610
You have a point citywatch. If transit was far superior today in LA in the future, I do think many people would opt to live on the Westside than DT. You would start to see more high-rises sprouting up across the Westside. But remember, Hollywood, Silver Lake, and Echo Park, in addition to DTLA all have their own character, distinct from the Westide's areas. So people, with many different preferences, may still choose to live DTLA because, due to its historic nature as the birth place of LA, there is something about it you can't replicate on the Weside. A lot of people may want to live in a beautiful historic high-rise. And a lot of people may still want to live in Hollywood.

So I believe that if our subway system expanded further to a substantial size, that it would definitely help DTLA, as well as the entire region. Remember, there are qualitative and intangible benefits an extensive subway system would do for LA such as helping to ameliorate the current discomfort Angelenos have with being exposed to different people, even though they are completely surrounded by the most diverse metropolis in the country. Subways, will force people to intermix and see each other face to face, shoulder to shoulder.

The main thing about the need to improve LA's regional mobility shortcomings is not only to get people around easier, but changing the entire cultural dynamic of the way LA functions, where public space becomes as second nature to Angelenos as their long-infatuation with a private driveway and garage. It's about getting Angelenos to prioritize the public realm as high on the list, which is how you improve the aesthetics of the area: more parks, wider/nicer sidewalks, store displays that finally target pedestrians and not cars, etc. etc.

That's why Mass Transit will help people "respect" LA and think it "looks good."
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:52 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.