DENVER | Transportation Thread

[ski82]

I'm not even talking about all the economic changes/uncertainties. The very nature of this project is complex, far more so then anything RTD has done before. Everything from feasability, evirnomental studies, land aquisition, design, GC selection, cost analysis, testing, and eventually delivery. Each one of these are complex processes that need to be managed. I'm just afraid RTD might be in over their head. Things can get out of hand pretty quickly.

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

It doesn't matter who has the keys to this project. Sales taxes remained strong with steady growth for 15 years straight, then crash. Materials skyrocket to historical highs, then crash. New data coming in now shows that commodities climbed to historical highs, despite the fact that demand was already trending downward and production was increasing at the same time. The only market force driving up prices in these materials and commodities were big investment firms such as "Merrill Lynch," whom were actually pushing investors to treat hedge investment funds as actually worthy of investing in as if they were stocks or Mutual funds. The demand for hedge Funds grew so huge, so rapidly from these investment firms, that it fueled the global cost increase. These are the same companies behind the mortgage crises. The same companies receiving hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer's funds with little or no oversight.

Just how much are these companies really worthy of being saved from bankruptcy? To me, it sounds like perhaps it was time for some of their smaller competitors to takeover their market share. One thing is for certain, they received this tax money, so that they would start issuing out the loans again and they are not doing this. What a surprise, these are the people that created the mortgage crises and threatened countless industries and construction projects around the country and world by pushing high risk investments in hedge funds.

How is RTD or anyone supposed to predict this crap? It's not going to happen. The only hope is that everything will stabilize in a few years and that the Denver area's population growth outpaces projection, resulting in sales taxes growing more rapidly than hopped--thus bring FasTracks relief down the road. That and/or any Federal assistance RTD qualifies for under some future Obama backed bill.

As for now, not only do I expect Design-Build, but I expect to see many corridors done with Design-Build-Operate contracts. Perhaps multiple corridors can be awarded to the same team at a discounted rate, even. Awarding the Gold and East Line to the same Design-Build-Operate entity may yield slightly reduced costs. Awarding the North and NW/US-36 projects to a single Design-Build-Operate entity, may again yield a discounted total cost.

[bcp]

could be...but they have some of the best consultants in the world on their payroll (parsons binkerhoff etc.)

[bunt_q]

Why is this different from the last two corridors? the way rtd has staffed this thing, broken into corridor teams, it is in practice just like SW and TREX. There are multiple corridors at once, yes, but I think each individual corridor probably has the same manpower and talent directed at it (if not more) than the first two

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by ski82

I'm not even talking about all the economic changes/uncertainties. The very nature of this project is complex, far more so then anything RTD has done before. Everything from feasability, evirnomental studies, land aquisition, design, GC selection, cost analysis, testing, and eventually delivery. Each one of these are complex processes that need to be managed. I'm just afraid RTD might be in over their head. Things can get out of hand pretty quickly.

And exactly what agency in CO has undertaken such a project? I don't think that even CDOT's record would match up.

Has any agency in CO ever undertaken the construction of six new transit corridors nearly simultaneously?

[SnyderBock]

Only RTD has any experience at it at all in Colorado and they have an exemplary record. All of the data and reports I have read, indicates RTD is developing each corridor as logically and rationally as can be done. Every problem they have faced, RTD has found solutions to so far and I expect that to continue. I expect that to continue, because they use the Environmental Impact Studies as they were meant to be used. RTD's West Corridor EIS recently was recently rewarded by the Feds--the first time this award has been awarded to any agency--for executing the EIS flawlessly, just as they had envisioned the process to unfold. Apparently, the feds are used to half-ass reports and RTD really impressed them.

[Octavian]

The house appropriations committee draft for the stimulus bill has $10 billion for "transit and rail to reduce traffic congestion and gas consumption." Doesn't sound like enough to solve RTD's problems.

[Octavian]

MODERNIZE ROADS, BRIDGES, TRANSIT AND WATERWAYS
To build a 21st century economy, we must engage contractors across the nation to create jobs - rebuilding our crumbling roads and bridges, modernizing public buildings, and putting people to work cleaning our air, water, and land.

Highway Infrastructure: $30 billion for highway and bridge construction projects. It is estimated that states have over 5,100 projects totaling over $64 billion that could be awarded within 180 days. These projects create jobs in the short term while saving commuters time and money in the long term. In 2006, the Department of Transportation estimated $8.5 billion was needed to maintain current systems and $61.4 billion was needed to improve highways and bridges.

Transit: Public transportation saves Americans time and money, saving as much as 4.2 billion gallons of gasoline and reducing carbon emissions by 37 million metric tons each year.

· New Construction: $1 billion for Capital Investment Grants for new commuter rail or other light rail systems to increase public use of mass transit and to speed projects already in construction. The Federal Transit Administration has $2.4 billion in pre-approved projects.

· Upgrades and Repair: $2 billion to modernize existing transit systems, including renovations to stations, security systems, computers, equipment, structures, signals, and communications. Funds will be distributed through the existing formula. The repair backlog is nearly $50 billion.

· Transit Capital Assistance: $6 billion to purchase buses and equipment needed to increase public transportation and improve intermodal and transit facilities. The Department of Transportation estimates a $3.2 billion maintenance backlog and $9.2 billion in needed improvements. The American Public Transportation Association identified 787 ready-to-go transit projects totaling $15.5 billion. Funds will be distributed through the existing formulas.

· Amtrak and Intercity Passenger Rail Construction Grants: $1.1 billion to improve the speed and capacity of intercity passenger rail service. The Department of Transportation's Inspector General estimates the North East Corridor alone has a backlog of over $10 billion.

[bcp]

$9.1BB for transit

$30.0BB for roads

[Istanbul5280]

Originally Posted by bcp

$9.1BB for transit

$30.0BB for roads

Transit=25% of the allocation...I'll take that anyday.

[EngiNerd]

We knew this was coming, but now its official.

FasTracks gets $308.6 million grant

DENVER (AP) - The Regional Transportation District has won a $308.6 million grant to help fund part of its Denver-area bus and rail service expansion project.

Acting Federal Transit Administration Administrator Sherry Little signed an agreement Friday committing federal funds toward the first part of the multibillion-dollar FasTracks project.

The grant would go toward building the West Corridor, a 12.1-mile light rail line between Union Station in downtown Denver and the Jefferson County Government Center in Golden. The line is scheduled to open in 2013.

Overall, FasTracks includes plans for new rail lines, enhanced bus service and new transit stations across eight counties, with completion scheduled for 2017.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=107882&catid=188

[FrancoRey]

Thank God. Now give us more; MORE I SAY!!! Only another billion and a half to go and we're not over budget anymore.

[wong21fr]

This will be a stupid question, but wasn't the funding already factored in and wouldn't do anything for the cost overruns?

I did read that RTD received $18 million more than originally requested, which will help a little bit.

[SnyderBock]

It means the West Corridor Light Rail Line is now fully funded. Will it help the other corridors? No, it won't. Now RTD can focus on getting the next corridor fully funded.

[agassiz904]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Well, RTD pre-ordered a lot of steel for teh West Corridor, before it went up anymore. Then it actually goes down. But fo r the other corridors, it will help a lot. Copper is even more important. Massive amounts of copper are needed for the electrical system and copper costs many times that of steel, per ton. I believe copper is down as well, though I doubt it is anywhere near the 50% steel is down.

Too bad RTD hasn't heard of the NYMEX. Futures would be a much better way of managing price fluxuations with commodities.

As for how much the price changes will help, it will depend on how much of their cost is a part of the project. RTD hasn't been too quick to point out in their press releases, at least the ones I've ran across, if they're 10, 30, 50% of their construction costs.

As for questions about the cost of the overhead wires for electrification, the general rule of thumb I've ran across is they account for about 10% of the cost of building a line. A decent chunk especially when you're running a few billion over budget.

As for running DMU's, COlorado Railcar has bit the dust. Not sure exactly how this could affect plans for using them on any Fastracks lines.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/jan/03/fort-lupton-railcar-company-reaches-end-of-line/

[SnyderBock]

???

[electricron]

Originally Posted by bcp

$9.1BB for transit
$30.0BB for roads

That's not that much more than last year's FY 2009 Budget.
$10.1 Billion for transit
$33.8 Billion for highways

Actually, it's less. I'm not sure what FY 2009 Highways and Transit Appropriations were.

[PlanIt]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

It means the West Corridor Light Rail Line is now fully funded. Will it help the other corridors? No, it won't. Now RTD can focus on getting the next corridor fully funded.

So does this mean they are going back to double tracking the 6th avenue portion of the line?

[denverryan]

Can someone help me with the exact route the Downtown Circulator bus is supposed to travel on? I know it's 18th & 19th, broadway and lincoln, but I'm a little confused how it all works down on the broadway and lincoln end. I remember reading something a long time ago about the route pulling into 12th and acoma to turn around and give better access to the Art Museum, but now I can't remember.

I've got a little project in the works to show you SSP folks, but I want it to be accurate first. Thanks for your help!

[Octavian]

I've seen the map before, but i couldn't find it.

Yeah, why doesn't RTD use futures markets? I was thinking this the other day too.

[wong21fr]

^Eventually you have to lock in your prices when ordering steel for delivery. When RTD ordered steel in 2007 that price was going to be locked no matter what happened.

Unless they wanted to break their contract with the vendor. Of course, then you have to shop around for more steel delaying the project.

I do wonder if RTD does material acquisition in phases for the various corridors so they could benefit from changing prices. Or be punished.