YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Yume-sama]

It would be a rather amazing stat if it were true, but I just can't imagine YVR having more traffic than SFO.

[Hong Kongese]

There are more flights from Asia to Vancouver than Asia to San Francisco.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hong Kongese

There are more flights from Asia to Vancouver than Asia to San Francisco.

While that may be true, the word in question is INTERNATIONAL flights. That also includes Latin America, Europe, Oceania (Australia, New Zealand, etc) and even parts of Africa. (for example, Royal Air Maroc and Air Algérie flying from Montreal to their respective destinations). Being INTERNATiONAL is more than being ASIAN, even though this may be difficult for you to grasp.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Excuse me, but are you sure about that? It's well known that as one of the world's top ten airports, LAX has has a vast destination roster, both across the Pacific, to Europe, and Latin America.

However, San Francisco too has flight destinations Vancouver does not have, both Transpacific and Translatlantic, again, with a number of foreign airlines flying there that well outnumbers Vancouver. (After all, the Bay Area itself has over 7 milion people).

The claim is made by YVR itself: http://www.yvr.ca/authority/employment/index.asp

What you're forgetting is that US transborder traffic is also considered international, and this segment makes up 50% of YVR's international passengers. SFO may have many more international destinations, but it doesn't have anywhere near the transborder traffic that YVR gets. This is a function of relative population size as much as anything else -- the US has 10 times the population of Canada -- but also different traffic patterns. In contrast to Canadian airports, US airport figures are primarily driven by domestic passengers.

Let's use Toronto (YYZ) as an example. Check out the Airports Council International site (http://www.airports.org/cda/aci_common/d....jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5-212-1376-1379_666_2__) for August 2008 YTD international statistics. YYZ's international traffic is higher than much busier airports such as Los Angeles. In fact, New York JFK is the only US airport that has more international passengers than Toronto.

Note that SFO doesn't make the list.

[Rusty Gull]

^Are you sure about YVR even being on that list, never mind being ahead of SFO and LAX?

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

The claim is made by YVR itself: http://www.yvr.ca/authority/employment/index.asp

What you're forgetting is that US transborder traffic is also considered international, and this segment makes up 50% of YVR's international passengers. SFO may have many more international destinations, but it doesn't have anywhere near the transborder traffic that YVR gets. This is a function of relative population size as much as anything else -- the US has 10 times the population of Canada -- but also different traffic patterns. In contrast to Canadian airports, US airport figures are primarily driven by domestic passengers.

Still don't believe me? Check out the Airports Council International site (http://www.airports.org/cda/aci_common/d....jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5-212-1376-1379_666_2__) for August 2008 YTD international statistics. YYZ's international traffic is higher than much busier airports such as Los Angeles airports. In fact, New York JFK is the only US airport that has more international passengers than Toronto.

Note that SFO doesn't make the list.

yes that makes sense factoring all the US/Can traffic

[muzhav84]

that's exactly right, with the inclusion of 'transborder' on vancouver's international numbers, we have greater 'international' numbers than SFO

[Yume-sama]

Well, I had no idea.

Why do so many people want to go to America?

We'll definitely be needing those improvements, then, if we get some more Asian and European destinations!

[SpongeG]

um USA is Canada's biggest trading partner perhaps?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

um USA is Canada's biggest trading partner perhaps?

... yes ... I rather think that the USA being Canada's largest trading partner, the world's largest economy, and that many Canadians have relatives living in the USA would play a role in all this .......

[Yume-sama]

Surely you didn't think I was serious.

It was even indicated by the ""

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Surely you didn't think I was serious.

It was even indicated by the ""

It would be interesting to divvy up the "international" traffic out of YVR, and find out what per centage is going overseas, and what percentage is, in fact, going to the USA. I'll bet you a Denver-mint dollar that the percentage of USA - bound traffic is higher than you think - perhaps not MORE than overseas traffic, but not as far behind as we like to imagine. Remember, despite all its cosmopolitan pretensions, Vancouver still is a regional city. Not that that's an inherently bad thing, but all that "international gateway" hype, while largely true for Asia in the Canadian context, is just that: hype.
Flights to California, plus the major central US transfer ponts (Chicago, Denver, Dallas, etc) might comprise a larger chunk of the jets taking off from here than you think. (ooops. Let's not forget Seattle)

[Spork]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

It would be interesting to divvy up the "international" traffic out of YVR, and find out what per centage is going overseas, and what percentage is, in fact, going to the USA. I'll bet you a Denver-mint dollar that the percentage of USA - bound traffic is higher than you think - perhaps not MORE than overseas traffic, but not as far behind as we like to imagine. Remember, despite all its cosmopolitan pretensions, Vancouver still is a regional city. Not that that's an inherently bad thing, but all that "international gateway" hype, while largely true for Asia in the Canadian context, is just that: hype.
Flights to California, plus the major central US transfer ponts (Chicago, Denver, Dallas, etc) might comprise a larger chunk of the jets taking off from here than you think. (ooops. Let's not forget Seattle)

There is quite a large volume as seen here: http://yvr.ca/pdf/authority/statistics/December_2007_Pax.pdf

From the document (assuming that "trans-border" is to/from the U.S.A):
Domestic: 9,016,556 (51.5%)
U.S.A: 4,361,177 (24.9%)
Asia-Pacific: 2,453,518 (14.0%)
Europe: 1,289,366 (7.4%)
Misc: 374,432 (2.1%)
Total: 17,495,049

[Hot Rod]

Vancouver is the 2nd busiest airport in Canada and the 2nd busiest International Airport on the West Coast of North America.

Vancouver has more capacity to Asia than SF does, it is close but YVR is bigger and it out edges SFO's edge to Europe. Also, consider that there is no separation of Transborder from Inter-continental; if it is to another country, then it is International. In this, you can clearly see that YVR beats SFO. There are not many more flag carriers to SFO that aren't at YVR.

LAX is the busiest Airport on the West Coast no matter how you measure, in every category.

In total passengers, I believe it is LAX, then SFO, SEA, YVR, SLC, PDX, OAK, ... So in this ranking, Vanocuver would be 4th busiest on the West Coast.

[Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by Spork

There is quite a large volume as seen here: http://yvr.ca/pdf/authority/statistics/December_2007_Pax.pdf

From the document (assuming that "trans-border" is to/from the U.S.A):
Domestic: 9,016,556 (51.5%)
U.S.A: 4,361,177 (24.9%)
Asia-Pacific: 2,453,518 (14.0%)
Europe: 1,289,366 (7.4%)
Misc: 374,432 (2.1%)
Total: 17,495,049

Those stats are very telling, almost a 50% split between International and Domestic. That is amazing!

Also, you can see that YVR has a larger European presence than some on here have been leading to believe or realize. I assume the MISC represents Charters, which mostly would be Asia and Europe, probably 50-50 split.

Also interesting, take the Asia-Pacific numbers and that would equal 10 777/340's (350 capacity) in that route per day, Europe being half that. I think that is pretty realistic to what we see.

I think all of SFO's International numbers my only equate to Vancouver's USA Transborder.

You must consider that YVR is the busiest international destination from SEA and PDX (maybe SLC also).

[zivan56]

Does anyone know why one needs to pass through customs to continue one from YVR? i.e LHR->YVR->HKG
In Europe (both EU and non-EU) airports do not require passing through customs. However, here, you need a transit visa in order to just continue on. This which is a HUGE hassle...and I believe even affects some EU members.

[trofirhen]

[QUOTE=Hot Rod;4026338]Vancouver is the 2nd busiest airport in Canada and the 2nd busiest International Airport on the West Coast of North America.

Vancouver has more capacity to Asia than SF does, it is close but YVR is bigger and it out edges SFO's edge to Europe.
_________________________________________________________________
Excuse me, but when you say "YVR is bigger..." (than SFO), do you mean the traffic volume to Asia is bigger, or that YVR itself is bigger than SFO? On the first point, you could be right, but no way is YVR bigger than SFO, either in passengers per year, or in aircraft movements, (not to mention the number of slots and the terminal itself)

[Vancity]

Just a really quick question - how many gates does YVR have in total? According to the report of the YVR expansion (by 2020), the airport is supposed to get even larger. The airport may serve 33 million people a year? wow, that's almost the service size of Pearson International.

That would be impressive.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Just a really quick question - how many gates does YVR have in total? According to the report of the YVR expansion (by 2020), the airport is supposed to get even larger. The airport may serve 33 million people a year? wow, that's almost the service size of Pearson International.

That would be impressive.

Althought the gates are numbered up to 90, I believe the actual number is 60-something. Regading passenger volume,
33 million a year is impressive. TOO impressive. I just can't imagine it in Vancouver, which is still only a mid-sized city, at best.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Just a really quick question - how many gates does YVR have in total? According to the report of the YVR expansion (by 2020), the airport is supposed to get even larger. The airport may serve 33 million people a year? wow, that's almost the service size of Pearson International.

That would be impressive.

I think YVR has 56 airbridges right now. Not sure whether that includes the C-pier expansion or not -- don't think it does.

YVR is a significant Asian hub in its own right, but it does NOT have more capacity to Asia than SFO does -- especially not after the recent cutbacks by Air Canada and Cathay Pacific and the demise of Oasis. But as someone pointed out earlier, Metro Vancouver has less than 1/3 of the Bay Area's population, so it's not all that surprising.

YVR's total international figures, which Europe, Asia, Oceania and Latin America, generally run neck and neck with SFO's international figures. SFO's domestic traffic blows away YVR's domestic traffic figures.