Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[zmaj101]

Anyone know if there are any plans to tear down the Plaza Hotel (with JB's Restaurant) right west of Temple Squaree?

I know the LDS (Urbanboy) Church owns the hotel and property and that part of it is used as a women's dorm for the BYU-SLC. I was hoping when they announced the construction work on the museums next door that they'd announce the Plaza was moving out. I would think that being right next to Temple Square, that land would be prime for another residential tower (in the future) or a upscale hotel like the Inn at Temple Square.

The Plaza has lived past it's heyday, and I don't think it has any historical value worth maintaining. Any opinions on the matter?

[urbanboy]

I am the LDS Church!

Thank you for being specific!

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I am the LDS Church!

Thank you for being specific!

No, based on the placement of your name in parenthesis, you are just LDS.

[TANGELD_SLC]

HAHA wow that's quite a big step for you, Urbanboy

What brought about your conversion?

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

This will be a petty correction, but fyi, "Anyways" is not plural. It's anyway.

Also, It's not uncool to be sustainable. If we "grew our own food and churned our own butter," than we would be one of the coolest cities out there. I personally think it's unfortunate that you can drive for 80 miles and never leave the city. This is because the smaller cities along the Wasatch Front have sprawled out and have collided with each other. Now, no one knows where Murray ends and Midvale begins or where Sandy ends and Draper begins. These places have gone from city to Suburb (a digression if you ask me). There's no identity. Most people in the valley just say they're from Salt Lake when they technically are not. They have little pride because there is little distinction between each suburb. Had each city placed urban growth boundaries within the borders of the city, each could have maintained a green belt of open space or permaculture around the city, keeping each city distinct from the others. if each city along the Wasatch Front had a green belt around them, our valley wouldn't get as smoggy because the green belts would act as a filter system and clean the air. The more we sprawl out, the more the "great outdoors" become less accessible to those who are centralized.

If we all grew all of our own food, we would have sprawled out much, much farther than we already have. You are missing my point completely.

Since you bring it up, I personaly don't mind the inter-connected urban strip because there are a wide range of vast, open landscapes just a short drive away. Yes, it is too bad that many suburbs don't have much distinction from each other, but that is changing. Sandy is developing a down town, West Valley is building more dense buildings where TRAX will soon be, Farmington has a TOD in the works, Hill Airforce Base is developing a massive retail/commercial/housing development, Cottonwood has a dense down town-like development in the works, Lehi will be getting a dense, urban development, Day Break is going to bring in walkable communities, etc.

As to eating away the "great outdoors", remember that the areas being developed are bound by natural barriers such as the Great Salt Lake, the Wasatch Range, the Salt Flats, etc. Salt Lake can only sprawl so far.

I think people say "Salt Lake" as where they're from for much the same reason I say I'm from San Francisco. Sure, I lived 25 miles east of there, but more people know where San Francisco is than Walnut Creek. Walnut Creek was a very unique city with a vibrant down town, but people out-of-state still don't really know much about it. I would tell Californians "Walnut Creek" but out-of-staters "San Francisco". I do the same here. I tell Utahns I'm from West Jordan, but I tell out-of-staters that I'm from Salt Lake.

Anyways, I will still use the word. Why would you correct that over all the other errors in other posts on this forum?

[Boiseguy]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

If we all grew all of our own food, we would have sprawled out much, much farther than we already have. You are missing my point completely.

Since you bring it up, I personaly don't mind the inter-connected urban strip because there are a wide range of vast, open landscapes just a short drive away. Yes, it is too bad that many suburbs don't have much distinction from each other, but that is changing. Sandy is developing a down town, West Valley is building more dense buildings where TRAX will soon be, Farmington has a TOD in the works, Hill Airforce Base is developing a massive retail/commercial/housing development, Cottonwood has a dense down town-like development in the works, Lehi will be getting a dense, urban development, Day Break is going to bring in walkable communities, etc.

As to eating away the "great outdoors", remember that the areas being developed are bound by natural barriers such as the Great Salt Lake, the Wasatch Range, the Salt Flats, etc. Salt Lake can only sprawl so far.

I think people say "Salt Lake" as where they're from for much the same reason I say I'm from San Francisco. Sure, I lived 25 miles east of there, but more people know where San Francisco is than Walnut Creek. Walnut Creek was a very unique city with a vibrant down town, but people out-of-state still don't really know much about it. I would tell Californians "Walnut Creek" but out-of-staters "San Francisco". I do the same here. I tell Utahns I'm from West Jordan, but I tell out-of-staters that I'm from Salt Lake.

Anyways, I will still use the word. Why would you correct that over all the other errors in other posts on this forum?

saying you live in san francisco when you live in walnut creek is fair to say..I suppose geographically..but Most people I know from that area just say they're from the bay area..when Not from san francisco... because in many respects east bay is worlds apart from san francisco...
Same thing with salt lake.. telling someone you're from salt lake, when you really live in south jordan or Lehi while not as drastic.. it is a bit of a stretch...
I think there is a more interesting way of looking at it all.. even if you don't buy into all the hippie shit... When suburbs sprawl.. and developement and industry are pushed out to suburbs... they become their own metro area... As Utah county and Ogden area grow and bring in large employers... fewer and fewer people are commuting for work to salt lake proper.. even salt lake county.. commuting patterns are what distinguish what is considered a metropolitian area... So essentially.. if salt lake wants to one day claim ogden/clearfield and even provo.. they need to promote the city proper better, and keep those cities as bedroom communities...I think that ogden/clearfield is much more tied to salt lake.. and it has the highest probability of being clumped into the metro statistical area.. Provo on the other hand.. I don't think will EVER be included.. just because of layout of the land... Anyway.. In the US that is almost impossible to get every outlaying area in the metro on the same page, because of the way cities seem to grab at land and developements to broaden their tax base. Also, historically... ogden and provo have been their own centers and independent cities... more so than say sandy or west valley.
I think commuter rail and light rail is the foundation for keeping downtown salt lake as the iconic center... Now the city and county need to ensure that it stays the focus...

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I hate that "Gherkin" building in London. UGLY.

[skierforlife17]

because of main streets lack of anything these days it is in a perfect situation to become a night scene center. I know the bar zoning laws in salt lake are set so this cant happen but if they were ever to change, or just on main street for that matter, it could become the coolest street in Utah. If you look at main street in park city, it is loaded with bars and restaurants. At night main street is bumping and fun to be on but not in salt lake, i feel like im in a ghost town after 7 in slc most nights. I just wish we could change the zoning for the economic sake of downtown. Christ I would open personally as many bars as I could on main street because of how lucrative the potential is. sadly sense and actuality dont go hand in hand in utah always...

[Boiseguy]

Originally Posted by skierforlife17

because of main streets lack of anything these days it is in a perfect situation to become a night scene center. I know the bar zoning laws in salt lake are set so this cant happen but if they were ever to change, or just on main street for that matter, it could become the coolest street in Utah. If you look at main street in park city, it is loaded with bars and restaurants. At night main street is bumping and fun to be on but not in salt lake, i feel like im in a ghost town after 7 in slc most nights. I just wish we could change the zoning for the economic sake of downtown. Christ I would open personally as many bars as I could on main street because of how lucrative the potential is. sadly sense and actuality dont go hand in hand in utah always...

I agree... I remember getting a drink downtown at a restaurant a couple years ago.. being ignorant of the laws.. and the waitress told us we had to order food.. not in a "can I get you something to eat" way.. but in a "you need to order food NOW" way....anyway, needless to say it caused a scene because I was with a friend from seattle who had gotten drunk on the way down already... so didn't bode well for our cause.. but nonetheless
If you think about it.. having a night scene district is a good thing.. because all the noise and riff raff are consolidated to one area... rather than having various bars and clubs scattered around the whole city...you will find as more and more residences locate downtown.. a big concern will be night time noise.. and if your night venues are blocks apart.. you've got a lot of problem spots...
Seems powerful members of government are more hell bent on stamping out alcohol all together in utah.. rather than accepting that it will exist.. and take something they consider personally negative.. and make something positive happen for the city... vibrancy.. and activity...not to mention $$$$
Salt lake could get those people up in park city and other resorts down into the city in a night scene... if they weren't being poured ONE shot of vodka in a 44oz glass of tonic...or having some cow waitress telling them to order food... or ELSE.. lol..
It really is crazy isn't it?

[delts145]

It is a bit stupid Boiseguy and I'm not even a drinker. While I wouldn't necessararily load Main Street up with bars and night clubs, I think a certain amount of classy clubs are definately necessary. What bothers me and I think most forumers, whether they're strict LDS or not, is the element which would restrict even your typical mainstream restarurant. Both the restaurant and residential scene on Main is in need of making some serious progress.

The Governor has tried very hard to make some much needed, moderate changes this session. I'm afraid there are those legislatures who are extreme in the same way there are certain forumers who are extreme and non-sensical. I'm not quite sure what causes a person to develop the 'take no prisoners mentality.'

Main Street needs to become a corridor that caters to the tourist industry, business community, and local residents in a big way. There should be a certain standard set that places a critical mass of residents on Main. Along with the residents, there should be a certain number of businesses that cater to the residents, such as pharmacies, dry cleaners, Grocery and deli, etc. I think the daytime office community is already on the right track, but there are definately not enough options for the typical tourist/conventioneer. Sure, when CCC is completed that will push Main forward quite a bit. But, I think as has been pointed out by many, that the middle to southern portion of Main is still going to be too empty. There should be every incentive explored at the state legislative level to help local business, residential developers, turn Main into a hub of activity 24/7, or at least 16/7. The State needs to press forward with incentives as strongly as they do when luring new business to the Wasatch Metro.

Perhaps, for the next ten years we'll have to be content with a vibrant Main at the northern sector. That, along with a step by step progression of the middle to southern portion of Main. Probably something that will take a more lengthy period of time to accomplish. I'm sure that over on the West side surrounding the Gateway and Depot districts, there will continue to develop more of a sense of the 'centralized vibrant urbanism', and that it will continue to develop at a quicker pace. When you think about it really, downtown is not that compact, as some would like to believe. As has been pointed out, it's just a matter of continuing to connect the dots. To me, the emerging downtown is everything from Trolley Square to I-15. Taking into account the size of the SLC blocks, thats hardly a small distance of walking.

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by delts145

The Governor has tried very hard to make some much needed, moderate changes this session. I'm afraid there are those legislatures who are extreme in the same way there are certain forumers who are extreme and non-sensical. I'm not quite sure what causes a person to develop the 'take no prisoners mentality.'

They're not extreme, just old-school, like some people on this forum. Come on people! Lets see a little more love on this forum!

[urbanboy]

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by Boiseguy

saying you live in san francisco when you live in walnut creek is fair to say..I suppose geographically..but Most people I know from that area just say they're from the bay area..when Not from san francisco... because in many respects east bay is worlds apart from san francisco...
Same thing with salt lake.. telling someone you're from salt lake, when you really live in south jordan or Lehi while not as drastic.. it is a bit of a stretch...
I think there is a more interesting way of looking at it all.. even if you don't buy into all the hippie shit... When suburbs sprawl.. and developement and industry are pushed out to suburbs... they become their own metro area... As Utah county and Ogden area grow and bring in large employers... fewer and fewer people are commuting for work to salt lake proper.. even salt lake county.. commuting patterns are what distinguish what is considered a metropolitian area... So essentially.. if salt lake wants to one day claim ogden/clearfield and even provo.. they need to promote the city proper better, and keep those cities as bedroom communities...I think that ogden/clearfield is much more tied to salt lake.. and it has the highest probability of being clumped into the metro statistical area.. Provo on the other hand.. I don't think will EVER be included.. just because of layout of the land... Anyway.. In the US that is almost impossible to get every outlaying area in the metro on the same page, because of the way cities seem to grab at land and developements to broaden their tax base. Also, historically... ogden and provo have been their own centers and independent cities... more so than say sandy or west valley.
I think commuter rail and light rail is the foundation for keeping downtown salt lake as the iconic center... Now the city and county need to ensure that it stays the focus...

Believe it or not, I do occasionaly run into the less-informed who don't know much about California at all. When I say "Bay Area", they, for some reason, often think So Cal. Another problem I come accross is people often don't know which 'Bay Area' I'm talking about. One person thought I meant Tampa Bay. So then I have to specify the state, and then the conversation has gone further than I wanted it to. Everyone knows where San Franciso is. I don't have to say the state it's in, I don't have to tell which part of the state it's in, and I don't have to specify which 'San Francisco' it is because there is only one. The same goes for Utah. If I tell peope "Salt Lake", everyone knows where that is. I can go to any part of the country and everyone knows where Salt Lake is. If I were to say "the Wasatch Front" I seriously doubt I would find many people who would have even heard of it in many parts of the country. If I said "West Jordan", hardly anyone will recognize that either. So, as I said before, I just tell locals the specific city, then I tell out-of-staters the general urban/cultural center.

I see what you mean about Salt Lake, but I guess I used the wrong word. I meant "megapolitan area" not "metropolitan area". Salt Lake County is a pretty cohesive metro area. Provo-Orem is as well. As is the same with Ogden-Clearfield. But all together, they form what the Brookings Institute has established as a "megapolitan area".

http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2008/~/..._intermountain_west_sarzynski/chp_II.pdf

Here's an excerpt from the report:

"The Intermountain West—once the Great Empty—is where it's at this fall. The states, especially in the region's southern half —Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah—suddenly lie smack in the middle of the nation's most radical and consequential demographic, land-use and economic transformations. The region is growing up, flexing its muscles and distancing itself from California, which has historically had an outsized impact on the West's development.

In fact, thanks to such maturation, the southern Intermountain West is well on its way to emerging as what might be called the New American Heartland as its economy, people and politics become more central to the nation.

Politically, the region—blessed already by nationally significant senators and governors—could be home to several swing states in the 2008 election and in time play the storied "kingmaking” role the Midwest does now.

Most notably, the region is home to five emerging "megapolitan” areas—vast, newly recognized "super regions” that often combine two or more metropolitan areas into a single huge economic, social and urban system.

In the 1960s, Dallas and Fort Worth were clearly colliding, as were Washington, D.C. and Baltimore by the 1980s. Now regions with more far-flung urban cores such as Phoenix and Tucson are exhibiting the same pattern, as are the urban spaces extending around Denver, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Albuquerque. In short, a region that was once a peripheral rural "flyover” zone and "empty quarter” has moved in a very real sense to the center of American urban invention."

Here's the detailed report on the Wasatch Front Megapolitan Area:

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2008/~...mountain_west_sarzynski/wasatch_font.pdf

[TANGELD_SLC]

Hey urbanboy, I want five of those farm needles

I know this is sorta off-topic, but does anybody actually believe humans are overpopulating the Earth? I don't. I just think we mismanage it. We could fit double our planet's current population on have currently developed land if we just built UP rather than OUT.

[WASDEN]

In response to your off topic question - I would be fine with more humans, as long as there was some kind of global effort for habitat preservation. But the way things are going, the whole planet will be remodified to be human habitat. How lame is that? Nature strives to be diverse, and I think its in our best interest to preserve that diversity. Too much of the same thing and extinction easily follows when disaster strikes.

I guess your 'up rather than out' philosophy fits in with mine, as it preserves more natural spaces.

One of my favorites:
The Humans are Dead, flight of the concords

[nickfreakingrules]

Originally Posted by TANGELD_SLC

Hey urbanboy, I want five of those farm needles

I know this is sorta off-topic, but does anybody actually believe humans are overpopulating the Earth? I don't. I just think we mismanage it. We could fit double our planet's current population on have currently developed land if we just built UP rather than OUT.

I think our planet is very over populated. The ecosystem was absorbing our impact quite well until about the time of the industrial revolution. Which not only increased our impact on the ecosystem by the pollution it produced, but then that was exacerbated by our population exploding at the same time.

Its not just a question of how much space we take up, but how much we use.

[delts145]

Will SLC toast neighborhood bars? - Zoning debate » Capital ponders allowing private clubs outside downtown; neighbors split.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11424417


The interior of Jam 751 N. 300 West Friday, January 9, 2009. The bar is pushing to become a private club, allowing them to serve beer, wine and liquor. City Council may vote on the issue next month. If zoning is changed to allow private clubs, bars still would need to get proper permit from the state. Chris Detrick/The Salt Lake Tribune (Chris Detrick)
.

[blazefirelight]

Originally Posted by zmaj101

Anyone know if there are any plans to tear down the Plaza Hotel (with JB's Restaurant) right west of Temple Squaree?

I know the LDS (Urbanboy) Church owns the hotel and property and that part of it is used as a women's dorm for the BYU-SLC. I was hoping when they announced the construction work on the museums next door that they'd announce the Plaza was moving out. I would think that being right next to Temple Square, that land would be prime for another residential tower (in the future) or a upscale hotel like the Inn at Temple Square.

The Plaza has lived past it's heyday, and I don't think it has any historical value worth maintaining. Any opinions on the matter?

I thought about this the other day. I think they should tear it down and build a ritzy hotel in its place. I really NICE plaza hotel instead of the nasty old space filled it is now.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I hate that "Gherkin" building in London. UGLY.

What, you don't like Godzilla's dildo?

[Future Mayor]

While I along with the rest of you am concerned about the vibrancy of Main Street, it is gradually getting better, along with the surrounding streets. For instance I was driving around downtown today for just a minute and I noticed that a jewler (maybe Fortier) had moved into the US Bank Building on 200 S and Main, and there is also the new restaurant/club opening just north of there in the old Daynes building. Those additions plus the recent addition of Keys on Main, and the Hukah place just south of Keys is really starting to shape the street and begin to bring some vibrancy to the area. With these pieces already in place, once CCC opens I can see a pretty smooth transition of the S Temple to at least 350 S (down to Market Street) corridor along Main St.

While it is has only daytime hours, it's nice to see America First join the ranks of the downtown financial institutions. For those that aren't aware they opened a branch in the Brooks Arcade Building on the State St side. I think the first floor of that building is pretty much leased if I'm not mistaken.

As residences begin to pop up in the CBD those necessary retailers will continue to pop up because there will be a demand for them.