Canada Line | Completed

[Metro-One]

Didn't think of that at all, great point. Unfortunately, they had to be cheap with the paint job.

When the advertisement boards are on the side of the trains they will be much less of an open canvas. Also, if something is an open canvas that is still no excuse for vandalism.

Also phesto, as "punishment" i am talking about community services. Not fines or jail, but getting some work out of vandals. Of course if they refuse to do such work, then the punishments become harder.

Also i stated it is the communities job to keep an area clean as i displayed with the Kingsway example. But to force some property and business owners fines would have to forced against them if they do not remove vandalism in a timely manner.

[crazyjoeda]

Originally Posted by ckkelley

Yeah, you're right. Graffiti vandalism is a total pisser.

Does anyone think graffiti is a major problem in Vancouver? Because we have way less than many other cities I have been to.

[phesto]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Also phesto, as "punishment" i am talking about community services. Not fines or jail, but getting some work out of vandals. Of course if they refuse to do such work, then the punishments become harder.

Again, while I don't neccesarily disagree with strict punishments for vandalism, in these types of cases it is very difficult to catch the culprit in the act.

When guys bomb a highly visible spot like this they will have likely already scoped access and security to the point where assuming they're good at what they do, can be there and gone in a few minutes; even less if they've got help. This is why you will rarely, if ever, view one of these guys in the act (aside from idiots tagging the inside of buses and skytrain with markers).

Freight trains are clearly the medium of choice now for train writers - they're more accessible, stationary for longer periods, rarely cleaned off, generally less risky and offer the possibility to get seen around North America. Of course the downside risk is if the train barely moves, few people will see it, except for other graffiti artists ('writers'). Of course, this is an illegitimate sub-culture all its own, and they're often only seeking recognition from their peers.

Anyway, not to derail this thread (no pun intended), but I highly recommend checking out http://www.at149st.com/index.html which details the history of the New York subway writers movement. Here's an excerpt detailing the Clean Train movement that essentially killed subway graffiti in NY for good:

THE CLEAN TRAIN MOVEMENT 1989- present
On May 12, 1989 the MTA declared a victory over graffiti. The MTA set in effect a policy of removing all marked subway cars from service. The objective being no graffiti will run. This was the birth of what is known as the Clean Train movement. There are many writers who believe subway painting is the defining act in being a writer. Walls, freights, scraps, and canvas are for fake writers. These writers refuse to give up the battle against the MTA. Even though works do not run or only run for one trip many people still write.

Note: I doubt on the Canada Line they would immediately remove a marked car from service, but would probably seek to clean it asap (ie. overnight), this would be a sufficient deterrent.

Also, if you've never seen it, definitely worth checking out the 1983 documentary Style Wars - chronicling New York subway graffiti. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5065949310221269915 I know some of you Canada line fanboys will probably cringe at the sight of a subway car being 'defaced', but it is a really interesting insight into what is essentially now an extinct New York sub-culture. I would even argue that back then it was a kind of art form.

[ckkelley]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

Does anyone think graffiti is a major problem in Vancouver? Because we have way less than many other cities I have been to.

I would agree that it isn't a major problem in Vancouver.

[nova9]

Originally Posted by ckkelley

I would agree that it isn't a major problem in Vancouver.

I sorta disagree. I would say graffitti might not be a problem but overall vandalism and destruction/damage of public property is.

In HK, you can have wonderful flatscreens and other amenities without problem but I doubt you could have any such things in Vancouver because, like the seawall by athlete's village, like the olympic clock, like the canada line train, yahoos in this city have a culture of disrespecting things that we ALL own.

Sigh. Stuff like this seemingly is a small issue but it reflects a major disconnect in our society. It's flat out annoying.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by nova9

I sorta disagree. I would say graffitti might not be a problem but overall vandalism and destruction/damage of public property is.

In HK, you can have wonderful flatscreens and other amenities without problem but I doubt you could have any such things in Vancouver because, like the seawall by athlete's village, like the olympic clock, like the canada line train, yahoos in this city have a culture of disrespecting things that we ALL own.

Sigh. Stuff like this seemingly is a small issue but it reflects a major disconnect in our society. It's flat out annoying.

The culture in HK is definitely different, and one that seems to respect property. Not to mention that everyone seems to be so busy, no time for such shenanigans and all with those massive crowds (or simply a presence of people wherever you go) in the streets and subway are quite a huge deterrent for people to do anything stupid.


It would be nice if the city came up with a better graffitti removal program that removes things asap. There's this one bus stop on King Edward, about three blocks west of Quebec Street, that is ridiculously painted with graffiti....I've never seen so much graffiti on a single bus stop, and it still hasn't been cleaned up.

[ravman]

Originally Posted by nova9

Sigh. Stuff like this seemingly is a small issue but it reflects a major disconnect in our society. It's flat out annoying.

um this is more "recent" problem... i mean back in the expo days, things were lot "cleaner" but now we have thieves stealing plants from parks ( Queen E) ?

[Metro-One]

There has been a recent surge of graffiti in metro-town, and many of the businesses on the north side of the street are not cleaning it up, i want to start posting posters on their front doors saying "clean your graffiti. Some of the graffiti is also on surfaces i know that are easy to clean, all you need is nail polish remover! Do they not understand it makes their business look low brow and dirty?

BC hydro and the newspaper companies also should clean the graffiti off their street furniture. A good solution to part of the problem i have seen in Burnaby is some of the utility boxes have photos of leafs and shrubbery painted on them (not graffiti, but real pictures of greenery) And they almost never get targeted because tagging would be almost camouflaged among the foliage.

People who think we dont have a problem, wake up, we do, it is a slippery slope. Not just graffiti, but also people throwing garbage wherever they please and the etching and smashing of windows just to name a few. We need to send more of our criminals and mistermeaners to work cleaning up the communities. Also we need to teach more community respect in school.

I love seeing all these new proposals for street re-designs and nice new park benches and street furniture, but all of them (along with public art/gardens and even the new pedestrian overpasses) all i can think is "hmm, how long until this is tagged, smashed or broken?"

Because people here do have it too easy, they feel they can do everything and everything is their right and they have no responsibility, well it is time we handed them a small reality check that one can be who they want to be, but they should also respect the public at large. Hence why painting train cars with graffiti is a horrible idea, we want the system to be comfortable, inviting and safe to all patrons, from the elderly to children to conservatives to liberals. Hence why such public areas are much better kept clean and somewhat neutral.

It is the selfish attitude where people think everything should be designed around them (such as graffiti). If i had my way all of the trains would be covered in pictures of naked asian girls (would make going to school and work a joy, not a chore), but i know that some people (almost everybody else) may not find that enjoyable, so you know what, they look good simply silver!

[upp norf]

They really messed up by adding that metal railing that spans the length of the Canada line. How ugly Would of looked much better if it was a clean looking cement track.

[agrant]

Safety over aesthetics is the rule.

[officedweller]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_southdelta/richmondreview/news/37026949.html

Richmond Review
Sun Tech City development may be shelved

By Matthew Hoekstra - Richmond Review

Published: January 02, 2009 5:00 PM
Updated: January 02, 2009 6:22 PM

Touted as a “monumental” landmark development, a master-planned community known as Sun Tech City appears to be sinking.

Years after a development plan for the decaying north Richmond neighbourhood collapsed, a group led by Pinnacle International revived the radical dream.

Crews would raze the few buildings and houses left of the area bounded by No. 3 Road, Sea Island Way, Sexsmith Road and Capstan Way, and build an entirely new mixed-use neighbourhood with 16 high-rises, a series of mid-rise buildings with a total of 2,136 homes.

The seven-hectare (17.2-acre) community would be linked to a new Canada Line station at Capstan Way, thanks to the developer’s willingness to ante up $15 million, and include a daycare for 25 children, 100 units of affordable subsidized rental housing, $250,000 worth of public art and live-work units.

Coun. Harold Steves called it “monumental,” and on May 22, 2007, city council gave the project third reading after a public hearing.

The plans were so bankable that city staff included the concept inside the revamped City Centre Area Plan last summer.

Peter Webb, vice-president of development for Concord Pacific, told The Richmond Review groundbreaking could be early 2008. It wasn’t.

Now city planners say the plans will be run through the shredder.

As with all developments, conditions must be met before the city grants fourth and final reading, a stage which allows developers to begin building. In this case, the developers have done little to satisfy the conditions.

In her report, senior planner Suzanne Carter-Huffman notes staff have offered help and flexibility, including relaxing the one-year requirement to meet fourth-reading conditions.

But she noted the developers are no longer prepared to produce the $15 million agreed upon for the Capstan Way station up front. Instead, the group is offering just $500,000—and the rest when half the towers are finished.

“The developers are unwilling to fund the Capstan Station as originally agreed, and have proposed terms that are unacceptable to TransLink and city staff,” she wrote.

In addition, Carter-Huffman says there’s been no response to the childcare and affordable housing requirements and the group has lowered its offering price for needed city land by $1.6 million.

Significantly changing rezoning conditions would make the public hearing invalid.

Pinnacle’s delay has halted projects elsewhere in the area, and letting the application sit on the books could be “a significant hardship” to property owners in the area who are waiting for the green light to develop, Carter-Huffman noted.

Two-thirds of the site is owned by Pinnacle International. The rest is owned by Concord Pacific.

Richmond’s chief administrative officer, George Duncan, pointed to “several issues of fundamental disagreement” between the two.

In a May 29, 2008 letter to Terry Hui of Concord and Michael De Cotiis of Pinnacle, Duncan suggested the pair go to arbitration and hire a single project manager.

Another major hurdle for the project is the current economic downturn.

In a Nov. 27, 2008 letter, Pinnacle development manager Ian Kent said his firm appealed for an extension and a reduction of up-front costs due to “current market conditions.”

City council will consider the report at its Jan. 6 general purposes committee meeting.

[mr.x]

Depressing....first Aberdeen, then River Rock, and now this. And all because American banks couldn't control their lending?

[rather_draconian]

I'm betting the infighting between the two developers probably is more to blame than the economic crisis. But yes, I think we should blame the Americans anyway because it's fun, and they really were the only ones who screwed up the economy.

[officedweller]

Came across this powerpoint presentation to what must be a UK Airports conference - a bit dated, but it has:
- a nice transit map all the way to WCE in Mission,
- a pie chart showing public and private funding,
- interior shots of the vehicles with wheelchairs and a bike in place,
- renderings of Templeton, Sea Island Centre and YVR stations
- map of YVR area including future north-south taxiway right-of-way.

http://www.air-rail.co.uk/resources/09-Mehr+-+Vancouver+Air+Rail.pdf

[mr.x]

^ great link!

[deasine]

Thanks officedweller. I haven't seen that Templeton Station rendering until now, which looks like what we have other than the fact that it's now white steel instead of wood [=(].

Aside from that, I'm not surprised about the Capstain Way development. With the current economy in this state, I don't think the original visions of expanding developments around the Canada Line will happen until at least another seven years after the Canada Line opens.

[officedweller]

Hard to tell from Tafryn's pics, but there seems to be a wood element on the Templeton beams (at least on the ends). The construction shots definitely show a core of steel for the beams though. They could be steel core and then clad in wood (like the Olympic Oval beams and the Convention Centre expansion).

[CLC]

As "future station" Capstan Station is not going to build for long time, I don't think it is a big omission to Canada line, on the bright side most riders can save at least 1 minute of travel each way.

Exactly what distance between Aberdeen and proposed Capstan station? from map it looks like 550m maximum. It is simply too close together I guess, even in Asian cities rarely metro with so closely-distanced stations are built, usually an extended skywalk (footbridge) is fine.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The MLine stations were well designed and will age well.

Brentwood is beautiful to look at, but suffers from poorly designed passenger flow under moderate load conditions with a pinch point at the top of the escalator on the e/b platform. This could be corrected by converting the emergency stairwells to revenue service, a la Stadium.

[red-paladin]

Not to beat a dead horse on this issue, but I have a question.
I understand the rational about why the platforms are 40m, and that has been talked to death.

What I do not understand is why they are deliberately making it almost impossible to extend the platforms to 80m. They may be right and 40 or the planned 50 will be enough for a long time, fine.... But why would they design the stations so that there is no room for 80m platforms if they are needed? Why wouldn't they leave room? It makes no sense to me to deliberately box everything in so that they can't be expanded.