The future of Hamilton's public transit

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by mic67

For some reason Mac, just doesnt seem to be part of Ham. but and enclave, unlike say the way UofT and Ryerson is to Toronto.

-the AGH havent been there yet, though it has a good location but never appears to be busy and maybe over looked
-HECFI - Ham. only gets what it gets because it is close to TO. no NHL, NBA, madonna..lol
-Arts culture seems to exist by I have had no experience with it yet, in TO you can not help but experience it
-I have been to all the hoods you list, ok I am still a torontoite, but honestly when I did my walking tours I was left disappointed
-Ticats - I havent been to a game yet but I have been down in the area when there has been a game on, anyone know what the cheapest seats cost and where they are?
-the Royal is a nice place and I havent been there since I was a youngin - but once you have seen it how many times do you go back??
-Munro - I think he was a great guy, but how much has that designation of international actually done for Ham? Do people still go to Buff. for flights?

The speculators and developers I have had discussions with do believe in Ham. potential but not just yet, maybe another decade or 2.

I have done some research and the entertainment scene is way limited in Ham., where do the Cougars hang out :} LOL

mic67

Whoa, hold your horses. Here's your quote.

Hamilton is a big city without any of the benefits of one.

You said that Hamilton is a big city without the benefits of one, period. And I gave you a list of big city items which you summarily dismissed.

McMaster - Just because you feel it's an enclave doesn't take away from the fact that it's located in Hamilton. Big cities have multiple institutions of higher learning and ones held in high regard, Hamilton - Checkmark.
AGH - Because you've never been there (btw, it's free the first Friday of each month), and doesn't appear busy doesn't diminish the fact that it is the 3rd largest public art gallery in Ontario. And any gallery that has multiple Lawren Harris in it's collection is A1 to me. Big cities have large public Art Galleries, Hamilton - Checkmark.
HECFI - Doesn't matter that Hamilton is close to Toronto, it's got the facilities to pull off the the shows no matter the size (NIN, Springsteen, The Who, etc.....) What matters is that a big city attracts artists of that drawing power. Big cities get big shows, Hamilton - Checkmark.
[b]Art Culture - Again, just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hamilton has a vibrant community of artists, and musicians, which is a necessity to define a place as a 'big city'. And again comparing it to Toronto a city 6 times as large and provincial and financial capital is unfair. Hamilton has an Art Culture http://www.jamesstreetnorth.ca/, Hamilton - Checkmark.
Distinctive Neighbourhoods - Perhaps you are still a torontoite, but so am I having spent 30 years of my life living in Toronto. But again, you are comparing Hamilton neighbourhoods (500K pop), to Toronto (3.0M pop). It doesn't meam Hamilton is lacking in neighbourhoods (significant to the definition of a big city), it means they are smaller in size in relation to larger. Try comparing Toronto to NYC and then tell me how big you think Toronto is...... Big cities have distinctive/unique neighbourhoods, Hamilton - Checkmark.
Ticats - I think any 'big city' needs to have a national sports team. Hamilton -Checkmark.
RBG - Ties back to culture, Hamilton - Checkmark.
Munro - I know people from Toronto who travel to Buffalo for flights. I'm going to bet that people from Buffalo travel to Hamilton and Toronto for flights. What's your point? Big cities have International Airports, Hamilton gets another checkmark.

Again, I agree with much of what you say, but I think you are off base on this one.

[mic67]

FairHamilton :
Why are you in Ham. and if you could, would you be or want to be in Toronto?

Hamilton as a big city has the distances to make it one.

I have been to New York and TO can compare in so many ways except in volume of people, and every American big city I have been to.

Your reply of check marks of what make Ham. a big city was like saying 'ya we are because we got one of those too'. No 24hour public transit, shopping...humm some metro's 24? I watch chch for goings on in Ham., niagara express...for what is happening in the city and there aint much.

I guess I have to get over some of the disappointments of Ham. relative to how I remembered it - I think that if it werent for all the tagging and garbage, which would be the most significant improvement of Ham., as one said its "perception". I dont dislike Ham.. The people who live here are the ones doing the tagging and responsible for the garbage. The north end is sort of like Parkdale or cabbage town some 40 years ago - so there is potential in Hamilton, and there are those who want and seek to achieve it.

It doesnt help to have music blasting inconsiderate neighbours, or another one who thinks it is ok to have their dog bark 24/7, this dog is huge, the neighbour has piled boards against the fence as the dog has popped many of them. It aint fun to walk beside your house and have the head of this huge dog rising above this 5 ft wooden fence. The fact that their backyard is covered in dog droppings and then they let the dog in the house is gross. The 3 other direct neighbours have well kept houses and appear reasonably considerate. I remember what one business owner said to me about the North of Ham. that the condition of an area can drastically vary from street to street and even house to house.

I wont get into some of the living conditions I have seen in Hamilton, worst than some 3rd world countries I have been to.
But on Victoria st a speculator was telling me of how a guy lived in a house and slept on a door that was on top of a pile of dirt in a house with no water or sewage and buckets full...he bought it for less than half price. Actually Flar took an image of a house near there that I was interested in, and when I did a walking tour this summer, that house I was considering that Flar imaged, had transformed and doubled in price, as the speculator said - one house at a time. It just aint perception....

mic67 Hamiltonian

[omro]

Originally Posted by mic67

FairHamilton :
Why are you in Ham. and if you could, would you be or want to be in Toronto?

Hamilton as a big city has the distances to make it one.

I have been to New York and TO can compare in so many ways except in volume of people, and every American big city I have been to.

Your reply of check marks of what make Ham. a big city was like saying 'ya we are because we got one of those too'. No 24hour public transit, shopping...humm some metro's 24? I watch chch for goings on in Ham., niagara express...for what is happening in the city and there aint much.

I guess I have to get over some of the disappointments of Ham. relative to how I remembered it - I think that if it werent for all the tagging and garbage, which would be the most significant improvement of Ham., as one said its "perception". I dont dislike Ham.. The people who live here are the ones doing the tagging and responsible for the garbage. The north end is sort of like Parkdale or cabbage town some 40 years ago - so there is potential in Hamilton, and there are those who want and seek to achieve it.

It doesnt help to have music blasting inconsiderate neighbours, or another one who thinks it is ok to have their dog bark 24/7, this dog is huge, the neighbour has piled boards against the fence as the dog has popped many of them. It aint fun to walk beside your house and have the head of this huge dog rising above this 5 ft wooden fence. The fact that their backyard is covered in dog droppings and then they let the dog in the house is gross. The 3 other direct neighbours have well kept houses and appear reasonably considerate. I remember what one business owner said to me about the North of Ham. that the condition of an area can drastically vary from street to street and even house to house.

I wont get into some of the living conditions I have seen in Hamilton, worst than some 3rd world countries I have been to.
But on Victoria st a speculator was telling me of how a guy lived in a house and slept on a door that was on top of a pile of dirt in a house with no water or sewage and buckets full...he bought it for less than half price. Actually Flar took an image of a house near there that I was interested in, and when I did a walking tour this summer, that house I was considering that Flar imaged, had transformed and doubled in price, as the speculator said - one house at a time. It just aint perception....

mic67 Hamiltonian

I'm very sorry, and I mean no disrespect, but this entire post made me laugh.

I'm forced to ask the question.

If this is your opinion, why don't you choose to live elsewhere?

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by mic67

FairHamilton :
Why are you in Ham. and if you could, would you be or want to be in Toronto?

Why am I in Hamilton, because I choose to be.

Would I choose to live in Toronto, no. In November 2007 I made the decision that I was going to live in Hamilton. After selling my wife (a Hamilton native) on the idea for 2 or 3 months, she was on board and we bought a house here in February 2008 (closed March 28th 2008).

Hamilton as a big city has the distances to make it one.

Sorry, I don't understand that one.

I have been to New York and TO can compare in so many ways except in volume of people, and every American big city I have been to.

I found NYC to 10 times the scale of scope of Toronto, much as you inferred Hamilton neighbourhoods paled in the scope and scale to Toronto‘s.

0Your reply of check marks of what make Ham. a big city was like saying 'ya we are because we got one of those too'. No 24hour public transit, shopping...humm some metro's 24? I watch chch for goings on in Ham., niagara express...for what is happening in the city and there aint much.

Toronto doesn't have 24hr transit, they have limited 24hr service, and there is a difference (a big difference). The subway, the backbone of the TTC, only runs 6am - 1:30am Monday to Saturday and only starts at 9am on Sundays. 9am on Sundays, now that is pretty provincial.

I guess I have to get over some of the disappointments of Ham. relative to how I remembered it - I think that if it werent for all the tagging and garbage, which would be the most significant improvement of Ham., as one said its "perception". I dont dislike Ham.. The people who live here are the ones doing the tagging and responsible for the garbage. The north end is sort of like Parkdale or cabbage town some 40 years ago - so there is potential in Hamilton, and there are those who want and seek to achieve it.

You had mentioned a lack of tagging along Queen Street in Toronto vis-a-vie tagging in Hamilton. I disagree, I walk Queen Street West, Spadina to Niagara, pretty much every weekday on my lunch, and will take some pictures to prove it exists in greater amounts than you think (remember).

It doesnt help to have music blasting inconsiderate neighbours, or another one who thinks it is ok to have their dog bark 24/7, this dog is huge, the neighbour has piled boards against the fence as the dog has popped many of them. It aint fun to walk beside your house and have the head of this huge dog rising above this 5 ft wooden fence. The fact that their backyard is covered in dog droppings and then they let the dog in the house is gross. The 3 other direct neighbours have well kept houses and appear reasonably considerate. I remember what one business owner said to me about the North of Ham. that the condition of an area can drastically vary from street to street and even house to house.

Sounds like you have a bad neighbour and I truly emphasize but that can, and does happen everywhere. In the Riverdale area of Toronto there was a couple of properties owned by a guy who was more than a little off and he got into a fight with neighbour and painted slogans and and hung stuff all over his property (and another) for years until he died.

My wife had one demand, an address south of King Street. I agreed and upped our budget by $25K, to fulfill her demand. We still have some troubles, but I am sure not as many as would exist north of King.

I wont get into some of the living conditions I have seen in Hamilton, worst than some 3rd world countries I have been to.
But on Victoria st a speculator was telling me of how a guy lived in a house and slept on a door that was on top of a pile of dirt in a house with no water or sewage and buckets full...he bought it for less than half price. Actually Flar took an image of a house near there that I was interested in, and when I did a walking tour this summer, that house I was considering that Flar imaged, had transformed and doubled in price, as the speculator said - one house at a time. It just aint perception....

mic67 Hamiltonian

I see you have never been to Almirante, Panama. Now that is poverty.

Unfortunately, there is poverty and sub-standard housing all over Canada, including Toronto. The speculator can play that game until the housing market becomes more difficult. I have seen a few homes on the market for a longer time with price reductions. The days of easy money are over.

[SteelTown]

With the addition of new buses the B-Line is suppose to go 24hrs. Dunno if that will happen this year or 2010.

[mic67]

Omro:
We shall see how much you will laugh went you live in Hamilton, if you choose to be truthful or realistic.

Very simply I did not want to afford to continue to live in a $900.000 house in Toronto, which is exactly what the house I lived in Toronto is listed for right now.

Omro I have read your posts and the reason why you have choosen Ham. is that it is affordable and appears to be the reason why your brother choose Ham. over Van.. And clearly not for any other reasons, reread your posts.

If you did read my posts you certainly did not understand them, they arent funny and werent ment to be.

I think that I am in the 2nd best location that there is in Hamilton that is affordable.

There is a difference from what Hamilton was to what Ham. is and what Ham could/can become.

Gesh.....People dont always choose where they like to live, per say. I can think of plently of places around the world both that I have visited and havent that I would like to live, are they practical or realistic? The alternative cities to hamilton were, chatham, cornwall and thunder bay. But I lived in Ham. previously. My opinon of ham. is much better than many who have lived here all their lives, I know, I grew up with them. I have engaged in conversation with many since returning to Ham. , I am just being realistic and practical. Those that choose to live and think in Disneyland is their choice.

Take a clue, how many on-air personalities at CHCH actually live in Ham.? One maybe, Hayes is on the mountain? And even business owners for that matter, or at least if their business is in the centrum, they choose to live far from it. Before I moved back to Ham. I contacted people I knew and they clued me in from my 27 year absence, their opinion was not that great and they still live here, why?

I dont expect Ham. to be TO.

mic67

[mic67]

Limited 24 hour transit is enough, full transit would not be justified nor make sense in TO, particularly the service of the subway.

Ham. NADA.

Queen to Niagara is close to the graffiti lane of kensington market. You think there is more tagging than King St. ?(Ham)

The amount of tagging can change in an instance, one way or another.

Ok... you choose to live in Hamilton and you commute to TO everyday?
Why choose Ham. over TO with the commute to boot? Particularly if you could afford to live in TO is just insane.
My Hamiltonian friends told me that you dont want to live in Ham. and have to commute to TO everyday. I agree. Unless you live a short walking distance to the station, at best, and the same could be said of your place of work in TO.

mic67

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by mic67

Take a clue, how many on-air personalities at CHCH actually live in Ham.?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Peter Mansbridge lives in Stratford. What did I just prove apart from many people live far from where they work.

[mic67]

He does not commute to TO everyday.

Some live far from work because they have to, many others choose to do so for other reasons.

mic67

[flar]

Mic67: When I first moved to Hamilton, it took me a while to adjust. Now I like living here. The worst thing about Hamilton are people's attitudes. I absolutely hate how everyone cuts down the city and grumbles, which you seem to have caught on with. I lived in London, Ontario for 7 years before I moved here, and without a doubt Hamilton is much more interesting and there is much, much more to do.

The Hamilton media (CHCH and the Spec) feed into the self hatred. If you want to know what's happening in Hamilton don't turn to them. It's been said to me by more than one person that Hamilton has more music venues per capita than NY city. There might be something to that, there is a great music scene here. Maybe you're not into that, or maybe you're not into the monthly Art Crawls on James North. There are also several studio tours throughout the year. How many cities would love to have a Hess Village? Augusta Street is more my cup of tea these days. There are quite a few festivals throughout the summer and fall, though you would barely know it if you look in the Spectator. Have you been to the Mardi Gras carnival? or the Cactus Festival in Dundas? or Port Days? Or the yearly festivals put on by the BIAs in Westdale, Concession St, Locke St. or Ottawa St.? Ottawa Street is the largest fabric and textile district in Canada and attracts people from all over.

Do you like museums? You can choose from the Warplane Heritage Museum, Dundurn Castle, Battlefield House, Whitehern, Erland Lee Museum, Dundas Museum, Griffin House, Westfield Heritage Village, Canadian Football Hall of Fame, Parks Canada Marine Discovery Centre, Hamilton Military Museum, Royal Botanical Gardens, Fieldcote Park and Museum, Hamilton Children's Museum, Workers Arts and Heritage Centre, McMaster Museum of Art, Canadian Museum of Steam and Technology, HMCS Haida or Art Gallery of Hamilton.

You couldn't enjoy better natural scenery anywhere in southern Ontario, dozens of waterfalls, kilometers of hiking trails, all kinds of parks and conservation areas. You can go to the Beach here too. Just outside the city you have wine country, pick your own fresh fruit and vegetables or the African Lion Safari. Easy access to Niagara Falls, Toronto and the USA.

You could even go on a sunset dinner cruise in Hamilton Harbour if you choose. Did you know Hamilton Place is one of the top theatres in Canada? Or that Copps Coliseum has regained its status as one of the top grossing arenas in the country? There is a decent symphony orchestra here too, and the Brott Music Festival. If you wish, you can gamble at Flamboro Downs.

I believe that Hamiltonians take what they have for granted. I think the main reasons are 1. that the city has suffered from industrial decline and so is not as great as it once was, and 2. that Toronto (which might or might not be a world class city) is usually the point of comparison. If you have ever lived in other cities (ie: not Toronto), and you give Hamilton a chance and attempt to get to know her, you would have little to complain about. For all of Hamilton's problems (which are many), it has come through in decent shape compared to a lot of rustbelt cities. I don't think Hamilton's problems are insurmountable. But all the negativity hurts the city more than any industrial decline. I hope to see the day where Hamiltonians once again take pride in the city.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by mic67

Limited 24 hour transit is enough, full transit would not be justified nor make sense in TO, particularly the service of the subway.

Enough, until you are waiting 35 minutes at -20 for a bus. Or the limited service does not service your neighbourhood.

Ham. NADA.

Hamilton is condensed enough for economical cab rides outside of regular hours.

Queen to Niagara is close to the graffiti lane of kensington market.

Than what mile of Queen West were you walking along, and saw limited tags?

You think there is more tagging than King St. ?(Ham)

I do not think it is significantly different (plus or minus), but I do agree there has been a problem in Hamilton. And I am doing something to solve it, and others need to do something as well.

Ok... you choose to live in Hamilton and you commute to TO everyday?
Why choose Ham. over TO with the commute to boot? Particularly if you could afford to live in TO is just insane.

We could afford, and did, live in Toronto for many years. Could my wife and I afford to live in the same stock of house in Toronto as we do here with a $70K mortgage? No.

So we made some tough decisions and some sacrifices for what was important to us, a nicer home, on a nice looking street with some nice neighbours, limited debt, etc. and dealt with the minuses of commuting. That is life.

But one of the big pluses is the quality of people in Hamilton, that you just do not find in Toronto (at least we never did). I can not remember a single person getting off the bus at the rear doors in Toronto and thanking the driver (happens here all the time). One of the first things we noticed was when we first moved here was the politeness of people we never found in Toronto. Before our washer was delivered a young boy, 11 or 12, at the laundromat got up out of his chair to open to door for us as we walked up to it, and he said hello. Wow, that left an impression. In Toronto, you would not get a second look, or a door opened with your arms full of laundry.

I would go so far to say that I have met more people in Hamilton in 10 months than I met in Toronto in my last 10 years of living there. Apart from the people I knew growing up and a few people from work we did not really socialize with any others in Toronto. Here I meet new people all the time and feel a closer connection to them than anyone I met in Toronto (outside of old friends).

My Hamiltonian friends told me that you dont want to live in Ham. and have to commute to TO everyday. I agree. Unless you live a short walking distance to the station, at best, and the same could be said of your place of work in TO.

We live 3km (not short walking distance) from the Hamilton GO Centre, and take the HSR. In the morning 13 - 14 minutes front door to train seat. Is it easy, no. But would I trade it for a $400K mortgage in Toronto and neighbours I do not really know, absolutely not.

[adam]

Originally Posted by mic67

FLAR

http://www.tourismhamilton.com/pagedetail.cfm?id=48

"Top Ten Employers

Hamilton’s Top Ten Employers by Number of Employees

Hamilton Health Sciences
City of Hamilton
Stelco Inc.
Dofasco Inc.
McMaster University
Government of Canada
National Steel Car Ltd.
St Josephs Healthcare Hamilton, St Josephs Hospital
Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology
Orlick Industries Ltd."

Thank you for showing this list Mic. There are many companies in Hamilton that would benefit from LRT. Also many, many smaller companies would also benefit.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by mic67

He does not commute to TO everyday.

Some live far from work because they have to, many others choose to do so for other reasons.

mic67

Huh, he is on The National every night, or are you saying it is broadcast from Stratford? Or do they film the entire weeks worth of news on Mondays and air it later?

OK, Kevin Frankish on Breakfast TV commutes from Barrie. And I think Lloyd lives outside of the 416.

Again what is the point on where people live?

[mic67]

I can say that having seen your photo tours of Hamilton is a significant contribution to the city itself. Although I do have some problems with them. I constantly recommend this site with regard to Ham. and in particular your images. Hamilton has become my city for better or worse, but since I see and know of it potential, I also see and know how much better it can be. Like one painter said to me, its amazing what a coat of paint can do - perception.

The places that I have travelled to in the world, there are places that I would like to return to again and there are places that werent even worth the first visit.

I created the HSR new rider appreciation pgm. (still in effect) for a reason, and then extended that to and for other areas, but for the same reason. It is a small gesture from me that helps make my day but is a huge gesture to others.

mic67

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by flar

The Hamilton media (CHCH and the Spec) feed into the self hatred. If you want to know what's happening in Hamilton don't turn to them. It's been said to me by more than one person that Hamilton has more music venues per capita than NY city. There might be something to that, there is a great music scene here. Maybe you're not into that, or maybe you're not into the monthly Art Crawls on James North. There are also several studio tours throughout the year. How many cities would love to have a Hess Village? Augusta Street is more my cup of tea these days. There are quite a few festivals throughout the summer and fall, though you would barely know it if you look in the Spectator. Have you been to the Mardi Gras carnival? or the Cactus Festival in Dundas? or Port Days? Or the yearly festivals put on by the BIAs in Westdale, Concession St, Locke St. or Ottawa St.? Ottawa Street is the largest fabric and textile district in Canada and attracts people from all over.

Do you like museums? You can choose from the Warplane Heritage Museum, Dundurn Castle, Battlefield House, Whitehern, Erland Lee Museum, Dundas Museum, Griffin House, Westfield Heritage Village, Canadian Football Hall of Fame, Parks Canada Marine Discovery Centre, Hamilton Military Museum, Royal Botanical Gardens, Fieldcote Park and Museum, Hamilton Children's Museum, Workers Arts and Heritage Centre, McMaster Museum of Art, Canadian Museum of Steam and Technology, HMCS Haida or Art Gallery of Hamilton.

You couldn't enjoy better natural scenery anywhere in southern Ontario, dozens of waterfalls, kilometers of hiking trails, all kinds of parks and conservation areas. You can go to the Beach here too. Just outside the city you have wine country, pick your own fresh fruit and vegetables or the African Lion Safari. Easy access to Niagara Falls, Toronto and the USA.

You could even go on a sunset dinner cruise in Hamilton Harbour if you choose. Did you know Hamilton Place is one of the top theatres in Canada? Or that Copps Coliseum has regained its status as one of the top grossing arenas in the country? There is a decent symphony orchestra here too, and the Brott Music Festival. If you wish, you can gamble at Flamboro Downs.

All big city things, by my measure.

[mic67]

That mile was at dusk along Queen west in Parkdale on the south side.

Are you saying Peter live in Strat. and commutes to TO everyday for the news? I dont believe it. He has a place in TO. I have worked with his wife and sister-in-law Jennifer.

Lets see if I got this right:
"We could afford, and did, live in Toronto for many years. Could my wife and I afford to live in the same stock of house in Toronto as we do here with a $70K mortgage? No."

So if you could afford it, would you live in TO in the same stock of house. In other simpler words if the money wasnt an issue and you could live where you wanted in the house that you can in Ham. but in TO. Would you be in TO. or Ham.?

A relative said to me "why would anyone live in hamilton if they could afford to live in TO."

In hamilton there are extremes of inconsiderate (music blasters and yappy dog owners but ther are bylaws for that or what ought to be common sense - is not so common I guess) and old school decent people.

mic67

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by mic67

That mile was at dusk along Queen west in Parkdale on the south side.

Sorry can't make it to that area at lunch, it's too far.

Are you saying Peter live in Strat. and commutes to TO everyday for the news? I dont believe it. He has a place in TO. I have worked with his wife and sister-in-law Jennifer.

No idea, but other Toronto personalities live outside the 416. What was your original point, commuting or choice of real estate?

So if you could afford it, would you live in TO in the same stock of house. In other simpler words if the money wasnt an issue and you could live where you wanted in the house that you can in Ham. but in TO. Would you be in TO. or Ham.?

I try not to live in a world of 'if's', as it does me no benefit. But, doesn't this answer that question; "I would go so far to say that I have met more people in Hamilton in 10 months than I met in Toronto in my last 10 years of living there."

A relative said to me "why would anyone live in hamilton if they could afford to live in TO."

And what did you say?

In hamilton there are extremes of inconsiderate (music blasters and yappy dog owners but ther are bylaws for that or what ought to be common sense - is not so common I guess) and old school decent people.

Am I off base in thinking you have neighbour issues?

[mic67]

Well these phony tv personalities want you to think that they contribute to the community in which they work...yet they choose to live elsewhere. Pretty phony. Yes it very much seems to be an issue of both the reason for commuting vs the choice of real estate. I would not want to live in Ham. and work in TO. Between when you leave and return to home that could make it a 12hour day.

How much to you spend to commute?
GO +
HSR+
TTC

per month?

Both you and your partner commute to TO?

No it does not answer my question - because what you are saying is that you rather live in Ham. because you have met more (quality) people.

My reply is that people dont always get to live where they want.

The music blasters and yappy the dog are issues, for sure and after of year of tolerance - there is now zero tolerance. But I would say that the issue with Ham. is not specific to noise, thats not specific to Ham. and could exist in TO, but the depressing ghetto like preception of all the garbage and tagging, the empty retail and poor building maintanence is more tolerable than the former - it just depressing. So little does so much to harm this city. I walk through a school yard and the staff put out rubbish bins and yet the place is filled with litter - regularly. It never happened in my day. A decent principle would have the students out there not only cleaning up the school yard but the neighbourhood too!

mic67

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by mic67

Well these phony tv personalities want you to think that they contribute to the community in which they work...yet they choose to live elsewhere. Pretty phony. Yes it very much seems to be an issue of both the reason for commuting vs the choice of real estate. I would not want to live in Ham. and work in TO. Between when you leave and return to home that could make it a 12hour day.

Actually, 13 hours. But that's OK.

How much to you spend to commute?
GO +
HSR+
TTC
per month?

$305/month. Only GO & HSR we walk to work on the Toronto end.

Both you and your partner commute to TO?

Yes, so double the $305. Funny, that plus our monthly mortgage is still less than we paid in Toronto.

No it does not answer my question - because what you are saying is that you rather live in Ham. because you have met more (quality) people.

So what was your question? I think it's pretty clear we prefer Hamilton.

My reply is that people dont always get to live where they want.

The music blasters and yappy the dog are issues, for sure and after of year of tolerance - there is now zero tolerance. But I would say that the issue with Ham. is not specific to noise, thats not specific to Ham. and could exist in TO, but the depressing ghetto like preception of all the garbage and tagging, the empty retail and poor building maintanence is more tolerable than the former - it just depressing. So little does so much to harm this city. I walk through a school yard and the staff put out rubbish bins and yet the place is filled with litter - regularly. It never happened in my day. A decent principle would have the students out there not only cleaning up the school yard but the neighbourhood too!

So your problem is that times have changed (it never happened in my day).

[mic67]

Ok you are left with 11 hours per day to sleep and eat dinner and breakfast, at best.

Commuting costs = wow, = about what it cost me to live in my house in Hamilton per month.

If you used TTC that would add about another $100 per month per person.

Did you rent in TO or own a house?

Ok, so even if you could have what you want you still would now live in Ham.=WOW

No, not the way you are implying that times have changed. Every Tues. I do hood rubbish cleanup, weather permitting and I have a pretty clear idea who and why it is generated. If the student cleaned their own rubbish they would not be generating it. Like Flar said "attitude".

mic67