Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by shakman

I was waiting for someone to ask...

For a number of years, I have had an interest with SLC. My interest actually started when the Bulls and Jazz played in the NBA Finals. I was pulling for the Jazz since I was tired of the Bulls winning the title back in the years. (I guess I can thank John Stockton and the "Mailman" for my interest to continue).

I am a City Planning major with a background in Construction Management. I like to read about how various city's across the US are structured and operate as well what is being developed where. I started to look into the area's character and was really impressed with its charm and family friendly environment. I have always thought of SLC as that "hidden jem" of the US.


More recently, my interest has grown exponentially for three main reasons:

1. I recently have had a lot of exposure to Mormons in the DC and Richmond areas. They are by far the most kind and sincere people I have met - this is coming from a Muslim (me). The way Mormons's moral conduct is the way Muslims should act as well. The family structure is identical. It all starts with the family. The Quran teaches us Muslims this same concept, including the respect towards a husband's wife which is to treat with utmost respect. The garbage you hear on the media is due to ancient cultures mixing with what Islam teaches about women being equal to men. During these interesting times, without Mormons, kindness may very well be at loss - I thank the Mormons for striving to keep it alive.

2. I love stats. Recently I have been seeing and hearing SLC rank nationally in various positive catagories. Though still I am scratching my head on its crime rate rankings (69), I think SLC should overcome this and improve since its economy is still quite healthy relative to the rest of the US.

3. City Creek Center... What an amazing project!!! It is currently my most favorite project under construction. I wish Richmond, VA would have something similar in its Downtown, rather than in the suburbs. However there is a massive proposal in an area called Shockoe Bottom which across I-95 from Downtown, but I find CCC more interesting.

I can think of many more reasons, but overall SLC ranks as a favorite.

Thanks for sharing. I hope someday you will get to come and visit us. We would be glad to have you!

[shakman]

Originally Posted by scottharding

Shakman's latest post is a good example of how there are two sides to every coin. Yeah, a lot of people think of Salt Lake as being a 20 years behind, a place of inbreds, whatever. But then there are those who, like Shakman, think just the opposite. And based on Shakman's post, and the email sent from whomever that started this whole topic, it seems those who take the negative view are morons, and those who are educated, intelligent, informed, and open-minded see Salt Lake as the great place that it is.
Yeah, I know I'm generalizing by called those people morons, but I'm sticking with it.
We've hosted the Olympics, and at the time, were the largest city to host the winter games. We claim one of the three largest and most popular film festivals in the world. We are the home of America's largest home-grown religion, which also happens to be one of the world's greatest contributors to relief aid. We are the capitol city of what is now the fastest growing state in the country. We have one of the better public transit systems in the country, a fairly stable and healthy economy in this time of economic disaster, and as far as access to outdoor recreation, few places in the world can compare to what Salt Lake City offers. The list could go on. Salt Lake kicks ass. Maybe our greatest asset is that morons tend to keep away from it.

AMEN... Hence why I have started to frequent SLC sub-threads quite often. It is quite exciting to read about all the happenings.

Don't forget, Salt Lake City is the smallest city in the US to have an airport as a major hub. I am sure there are good reasons why SLC is a major hub to now the largest airline in the world. Also jetBlue has a decent size operations center in Holladay. I am also sure there are good reasons for this as well.



wrendog -

Greatly appreciate the invite. I someday in the near future look forward to visit.

[Boiseguy]

Originally Posted by DMTower

I think all of that will come naturally when Salt Lake has a larger downtown residential population. The government certainly isn't going to promote "sleaze appeal" downtown, but the people living in neighborhoods are the ones who develop the vibe of a community. Part of the reason Salt Lake is so sterile is that it becomes a ghost town certain hours of the day. I think in 3-5 years we will start to see a whole new vibe downtown as the residential population in the central business district doubles with all of the projects already underway.

agreed

[skyguy414]

I wasn't going to say anything about all the previous negativity recently, but I am giving in.

While there is no way to actually call any one city the best city in the world, for me, Salt Lake City is just that. Of course that is just my opinion, and others will claim other cities to be the best. But again, on what criteria do you judge a city to be better than the rest? It reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where Jerry’s dad wears a t-shirt that says “# 1 Dad” which lead to an acquaintance of his to wear a shirt that says “World’s Greatest Dad” and the rivalry that ensued.

My point is every person has his or her own ideals, needs, and desires. What one city lacks in may not affect his or her lifestyle as much as it would to someone else. Or, a lack of something may be made up for in what that city boasts over other cities. Some people feel like they don’t or wouldn’t fit in a particular city. There is not one city in this world that could possibly offer everything to everyone. For me, Salt Lake City offers everything I need and more. I think that is the consensus of most people who already live here and prospective new residents who continue to move here.

People who choose to put down a city for whatever reason do so because maybe that city doesn’t offer what they want, or perhaps they do it out of jealousy. I see these comments as tactless, and quite frankly, juvenile. And generally they come from people who judge a book by its cover. It is their ignorance and narrow-mindedness that has them believe stereotypes and other ridiculous idle talk. For those who let their jealousy or bitterness get the better of them, they often resort to name calling and belittling to make them feel better. Words are just words, they don’t change anything.

The Salt Lake area is constantly changing and growing, there is no doubt about that. As time goes on, the city will continue to appeal to more and more people. For other people, it could also do the opposite. In some regards, when a city makes certain changes to appeal to one demographic, you risk the disaffection from another. Salt Lake City has challenges some other cities don’t have, it has to appeal to a wide variety of people. For the most part, I think the city does this well.

The bottom line is, nobody is going to change my opinion of any city whether I live there or not. I will choose for myself, thank you very much.

[shakman]

Very well said skyguy.

So... with that said, let us ALL get back to discussing SLC developments.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

I think it is interesting how people equate the demise of family structure to certain things such as alcohol. I don't disagree that alcohol has many negative effects however people need to remember to be personally responsible while drinking. I think that more clubs downtown could lead to a more vibrant area to live however, we would also need more local clothing stores on par with Pibs Exchange in sugarhouse. If you ask me the right way to bring back SLC is to recreate Sugarhouse in its core. I believe that if we brought the local appeal of sugarhouse with the "classy" appeal of CCC and threw in some coffee shops and one or two more clubs on main/state street we would have a really cool down town.
We need to remember that family structure is the corner stone for the present Utah culture but that alcohol, homosexuality and places to dance at night are not the end to such a structure. RIght now how it stands I would say people are imposing family structure on night life just because in SLC, even in the core, there are things to do with your family but nothing to do when it comes to dancing/partying I.E. CCC the, arts district and the Davinci, hopefully, vs virtually nothing entertainment based.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by shakman

Very well said skyguy.

So... with that said, let us ALL get back to discussing SLC developments.

What new development shall we talk about, lol.
I think I've said this before, just to start conversation I think that CCC is successfully evading the flaw Gateway set its self up for when it comes to its own success. The gateway has fallen prey to its self in the since its desinged to box people in and not really expand beyond its own Stuco walls. when it comes to expanding the Gateway seems to be doing a less then gracefull job at it due to its design I.E. the new bridal store on its south western end seems to be in a very austere location If they would have build the gateway to be more able to expand to the west or east they could purchase the parking lots just outside of the gateway and develop those. I see the CCC being more then capable of expanding beyond its own borders even if its not under the title CCC it could be an affiliate of the MC or another company/organization that is developing and working symbiotically with its success such as Becker's proposed arts district, what I can't wait to see is what people do with the parking lots between the hotel and the LDS business college, what do you guys think?

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by skyguy414

I wasn't going to say anything about all the previous negativity recently, but I am giving in.

While there is no way to actually call any one city the best city in the world, for me, Salt Lake City is just that. Of course that is just my opinion, and others will claim other cities to be the best. But again, on what criteria do you judge a city to be better than the rest? It reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where Jerry’s dad wears a t-shirt that says “# 1 Dad” which lead to an acquaintance of his to wear a shirt that says “World’s Greatest Dad” and the rivalry that ensued.

My point is every person has his or her own ideals, needs, and desires. What one city lacks in may not affect his or her lifestyle as much as it would to someone else. Or, a lack of something may be made up for in what that city boasts over other cities. Some people feel like they don’t or wouldn’t fit in a particular city. There is not one city in this world that could possibly offer everything to everyone. For me, Salt Lake City offers everything I need and more. I think that is the consensus of most people who already live here and prospective new residents who continue to move here.

People who choose to put down a city for whatever reason do so because maybe that city doesn’t offer what they want, or perhaps they do it out of jealousy. I see these comments as tactless, and quite frankly, juvenile. And generally they come from people who judge a book by its cover. It is their ignorance and narrow-mindedness that has them believe stereotypes and other ridiculous idle talk. For those who let their jealousy or bitterness get the better of them, they often resort to name calling and belittling to make them feel better. Words are just words, they don’t change anything.

The Salt Lake area is constantly changing and growing, there is no doubt about that. As time goes on, the city will continue to appeal to more and more people. For other people, it could also do the opposite. In some regards, when a city makes certain changes to appeal to one demographic, you risk the disaffection from another. Salt Lake City has challenges some other cities don’t have, it has to appeal to a wide variety of people. For the most part, I think the city does this well.

The bottom line is, nobody is going to change my opinion of any city whether I live there or not. I will choose for myself, thank you very much.

How about lower unemployment during this recession then the rest of the country before the recession, a burgeoning downtown , we will word it that way, that we will all get to be a part of, we have a progressive yet diplomatic mayor and a population known for being friendly I.E. Projects not emailing that guy back with a rude email rather starting up a conversation in this forum about why people think the way the person who wrote the letter think. just to objectively list a few reasons SLC's not that bad
However we, like all places, need improvement. I for one would like to see a larger portion of society receiving a college education.
I think if I remember right reading that 28% of people over 25 in Utah have a BA but 54% in Seattle over 25 have a BA, I will check on that though.
I feel this would help out our institutions such as the U and WM develop our city . Also a larger college population could lead to a larger downtown population with people wanting to live closer to the core of downtown so they wouldn't have to travel far during their daily routine. It could encourage more companies to move to Utah because we would have more professionals to work for them.

[shakman]

Someone had mentioned Sugarhouse. What is latest and greatest?

(I hope to hear some great news to negate my $400 repair work done to my car earlier in the evening... Thanks in part to my driving skills.)

[delts145]

Brrrr... That northerly breeze is cold out there this morning. Well, T-Mac is going to be cold, but at least there's plenty of bright sunshine this morning for his pics. I'm looking forward to them T-Mac!!!

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by delts145

Brrrr... That northerly breeze is cold out there this morning. Well, T-Mac is going to be cold, but at least there's plenty of bright sunshine this morning for his pics. I'm looking forward to them T-Mac!!!

Not to mention that storm last night cleared out the air so the sky and mountains look amazing!

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

However we, like all places, need improvement. I for one would like to see a larger portion of society receiving a college education.
I think if I remember right reading that 28% of people over 25 in Utah have a BA but 54% in Seattle over 25 have a BA, I will check on that though.
I feel this would help out our institutions such as the U and WM develop our city . Also a larger college population could lead to a larger downtown population with people wanting to live closer to the core of downtown so they wouldn't have to travel far during their daily routine. It could encourage more companies to move to Utah because we would have more professionals to work for them.

I think this education statistic that is a bit misleading because of our unique culture... let me explain.

Remember that a good portion of LDS males leave on a mission at 19 and may only get a semester, possibly a year under their belt before they leave. When they get back at 21-22 they are really like freshmen (I only had a semester finished before starting back up.) College takes about 5 years now a days which would place the graduation age for a lot of these males around 26-27

I would like to see a statistic of people holding a bachelors by say 27 or 28 here and see if it stands up vs the rest of the nation. My dad graduated at 27, my bro in law graduated at 26 and has an MBA and a bunch of my friends have masters or are in pharmacy school or grad school and all received their bachelors at 26+...

As a corollary to my point that our residents value education (at least at the time when I graduated HS in the mid-late 90's) ...Utah was always near the top 3 in high school graduation percentage at 88-92% if I remember correctly.
I'm not sure if these numbers still hold up, I will have to research a bit, but I am sure they are still strong.
(EDIT: I just found this article placing Utah at 90% and number 2 nationally
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_23_20/ai_112409383)

A similar stat about Utah that I feel is misleading is the one stating that we are among the bottom states in per capita income numbers nationally. This stat could quickly lead a lot of people to make the assumption that we have a low standard of living (which those of us who live know know is not correct) but instead it is because we have on average, larger families by 30-40% (3+ vs 2.5 kids nationally)

...however household incomes are comparable on a national scale (UT $48K vs $44K nationally in 2004) we also have a much lower poverty rate.

Anyway, just my two cents on the matter

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Wasatch_One

I think this education statistic that is a bit misleading because of our unique culture... let me explain.

Remember that a good portion of LDS males leave on a mission at 19 and may only get a semester, possibly a year under their belt before they leave. When they get back at 21-22 they are really like freshmen (I only had a semester finished before starting back up.) College takes about 5 years now a days which would place the graduation age for a lot of these males around 26-27

I would like to see a statistic of people holding a bachelors by say 27 or 28 here and see if it stands up vs the rest of the nation. My dad graduated at 27, my bro in law graduated at 26 and has an MBA and a bunch of my friends have masters or are in pharmacy school or grad school and all received their bachelors at 26+...

Anyway, just my two cents on the matter

What I remember reading was over twenty five not by twenty five and I was wondering about that my self.
here's an interesting article http://www.neweconomyindex.org/metro/part1_page2.html.

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by shakman

AMEN... Hence why I have started to frequent SLC sub-threads quite often. It is quite exciting to read about all the happenings.

Don't forget, Salt Lake City is the smallest city in the US to have an airport as a major hub. I am sure there are good reasons why SLC is a major hub to now the largest airline in the world. Also jetBlue has a decent size operations center in Holladay. I am also sure there are good reasons for this as well.

Hey Shakman, we appreciate all of your input here on the forum. I think that all of us that live here know we have a diamond in the rough... and anyone, like yourself, that is willing to actually research and move beyond the stereotypes and see it for what it really is, we would love to have visit...

A bit about jetBlue... the CEO, David Neeleman is from Utah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Neeleman

he was involved in an airline similar to jetBlue out here in Utah in the mid 80's to early 90's called Morris Air

[shakman]

Originally Posted by Wasatch_One

Hey Shakman, we appreciate all of your input here on the forum. I think that all of us that live here know we have a diamond in the rough... and anyone, like yourself, that is willing to actually research and move beyond the stereotypes and see it for what it really is, we would love to have visit...

A bit about jetBlue... the CEO, David Neeleman is from Utah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Neeleman

he was involved in an airline similar to jetBlue out here in Utah in the mid 80's to early 90's called Morris Air

I appreciate the kind comments.

Stereotyping does nothing but uneducated the populous. Those who stereotype are lazy people who do not know how to solve problems nor do they care how to solve problems.

Those who look beyond are the ones who are successful. Therefore for those who care about SLC, keep looking up as your City continues to rise 20 years ahead. For those who stereotype, keep looking down for you are the ones who will remain "20 years behind".

(Please note my intention is not to jab at anyone in particular, just to make a generalized comment that I find to make sense.)

Two smarts from SLC was TRAX and CCC. These will be catalyst for much better things to come for Downtown and the surrounding region. I like the pro-active approach the region is pursuing. Perhaps these developments and actions will someday in the near future present a new tallest.

Speaking of which, what are the height restrictions in Downtown?

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by shakman

I appreciate the kind comments.



Two smarts from SLC was TRAX and CCC. These will be catalyst for much better things to come for Downtown and the surrounding region. I like the pro-active approach the region is pursuing. Perhaps these developments and actions will someday in the near future present a new tallest.

If city creek center is successful there will be a boom in downtown development both from city creek center its self and other companies building of its success. I think a lot of developers are probably already noticing the potential to connect CCC to gateway and CCC to the Galivan center, like Beckers arts district.
and I'm not sure about the height restriction. I wonder if there is a city planer we could ask

[scottharding]

In regards to recreating the sugarhouse mystique in downtown, if you stroll by the little stores on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd south just East of State street, you'll see that others share that sentiment, and it may be happening.

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

What I remember reading was over twenty five not by twenty five and I was wondering about that my self.
here's an interesting article http://www.neweconomyindex.org/metro/part1_page2.html.

haha... oops, I misread your post. I had just woken up when I typed that, ha.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Wasatch_One

haha... oops, I misread your post. I had just woken up when I typed that, ha.

Ha no worries, plus I am trying to find that exact article but its kinda hard SLC I swear is never counted in any major survey but I did find similar articles saying the same thing.

[urbanboy]

I bet T-Mac will post pictures in the next post. Thanks T-Mac!