Huntsville updates

[BlessedMobile]

Huntsville will get its share of government money in the next administration. We will likely spend more on defense and less on offense. It's the suitcase bomb and rogue missile we should be worried about. Maybe we'll build fewer 50 million dollar jets to blow up those pesky jeeps riding down the desert roads.

[Jugernagt]

Originally Posted by neilson

With that kind of talk, you could be referring to NASA too. There are a lot of contractors and subcontractors out there working hard while the Civil Servants get a bum rap sometimes.

I remember when I worked out at Marshall we had one civil service employee that we were not supposed to knock on his door after 1:00 for about an hour because this was the time he always took his afternoon nap. This was, of course, after he had already taken his lunch break.

[neilson]

Originally Posted by Jugernagt

I remember when I worked out at Marshall we had one civil service employee that we were not supposed to knock on his door after 1:00 for about an hour because this was the time he always took his afternoon nap. This was, of course, after he had already taken his lunch break.

This beckons the question: Which civil servants have a reputation(deserved or not) for being lazier then contractors/subcontractors? NASA or the Army?

[gkcooper]

Originally Posted by neilson

This beckons the question: Which civil servants have a reputation(deserved or not) for being lazier then contractors/subcontractors? NASA or the Army?

In my personal experiences, NASA looks to be, far and away, the laziest place to be.

[Jugernagt]

Originally Posted by gkcooper

In my personal experiences, NASA looks to be, far and away, the laziest place to be.

Or should we be comparing laziness to incompetence? I have been to many Army departments that most all of the personnel are totally incompetent. Most of the personnel in the department didn't know how to do their job.

I've seen many NASA employees that work so efficiently that they get their tasks done quickly so it's more of not having enough to do rather than know how to do it.

What gets me the most is the freedom the government has to give employees at the risk of being charged with discrimination or some other charge. For example one of the buildings at the new Sparkman center has a "security" person, who sits at the desk where they check badges and issues temporary visitor badges, and has all these stupid tiny toys stuck all over her computer monitor. If it were me it shouldn't be allowed because it presents a non-professional appearance especially since it is the first thing you see when you walk into the building.

[marvingardns]

For all you chaps who are quite vocal about installing a light rail system in Huntsville... I read in the paper that it cost the city of Pheonix $1.4 billion to install a line of 20 miles.

That is $1,400,000,000. Now compare that to our overbudget jail (IIRC) of $60,000,000 and how much we groan at that pricetag.

Phoenix may have some right of way issues and amenity requirements that made it quite costly, but that gives you an idea of the economic challenges in developing a light rail system. That amounts to $13,250 per foot of rail.

Probably a more fair cost comparison (in the loosest sense) would be to look at Little Rock's light rail system of 3.5 miles. It was installed at $8 million per track mile, or $1,515 per foot. It used routes that accomodated the vintage right of way for older trolleys, used existing bridges over the Arkansas River and used vintage rolling stock from Little Rock's transit authority.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by marvingardns

For all you chaps who are quite vocal about installing a light rail system in Huntsville... I read in the paper that it cost the city of Pheonix $1.4 billion to install a line of 20 miles.

That is $1,400,000,000. Now compare that to our overbudget jail (IIRC) of $60,000,000 and how much we groan at that pricetag.

Phoenix may have some right of way issues and amenity requirements that made it quite costly, but that gives you an idea of the economic challenges in developing a light rail system. That amounts to $13,250 per foot of rail.

Probably a more fair cost comparison (in the loosest sense) would be to look at Little Rock's light rail system of 3.5 miles. It was installed at $8 million per track mile, or $1,515 per foot. It used routes that accomodated the vintage right of way for older trolleys, used existing bridges over the Arkansas River and used vintage rolling stock from Little Rock's transit authority.

that's insane, you wonder if we have priced ourselves out of realistic solutions. There needs to be a massive transportation overhaul in this country. A lot of the money wasted in foreign countries needs to be invested in a transportation infrastructure upgrade program(highways, light rail, airports) similar to the Eisenhower interstate plan. It would create thousands of jobs and skills, might even see a simple overpass on Memorial Parkway completed in 10 years or less.

[jmanhsv]

Originally Posted by marvingardns

For all you chaps who are quite vocal about installing a light rail system in Huntsville... I read in the paper that it cost the city of Pheonix $1.4 billion to install a line of 20 miles.

That is $1,400,000,000. Now compare that to our overbudget jail (IIRC) of $60,000,000 and how much we groan at that pricetag.

Phoenix may have some right of way issues and amenity requirements that made it quite costly, but that gives you an idea of the economic challenges in developing a light rail system. That amounts to $13,250 per foot of rail.

Phoenix's light rail system, from what I've seen in pictures, runs mostly in the middle of city streets, which involved a lot of road reconstruction. That probably ran up the cost quite a bit. Plus, did you see those stations!? Talk about architectural overkill. A theoretical Huntsville LRT line would use mostly the existing rail right-of-way that is already owned by the government, and have a uniform station design with only slight modifications for space issues, continuity, etc. But it would still cost somewhere in the $500M-$1B range. It's better than $1.4 Billion, but still way too high for most people.

[Jugernagt]

Originally Posted by marvingardns

For all you chaps who are quite vocal about installing a light rail system in Huntsville... I read in the paper that it cost the city of Pheonix $1.4 billion to install a line of 20 miles.

That is $1,400,000,000. Now compare that to our overbudget jail (IIRC) of $60,000,000 and how much we groan at that pricetag.

if you read about the Pheonix rail system, Maricopa County started collecting an additional tax in 1985 to pay for the rail system. And only until this month (Dec 2008), 23 years later, the system started accepting passengers. And the system is only 20 miles long.

You also have to consider Pheonix is the 5th largest city in the US in terms of population (according to Wikipedia) with a 2007 estimated population of 1,552,259 and the thirteenth largest MSA in the United States, with an estimated population of 4,579,427 in 2008. This is huge in comparison to Huntsville or Madison County. Our population count is about 10% of that. It would take us over a 100 years to collect the money to pay for something like this.

(FYI: Huntsville's city population in 2007 was 171,327 and an estimated MSA population of 386,632)

[HSVTiger]

Let's hope 2009 brings major activity and development, cause right now
everything is on hold or delay mode. Seems everyone is waiting until after the new President takes office.
Happy New Year everyone!

[Shawn35816]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

Let's hope 2009 brings major activity and development, cause right now
everything is on hold or delay mode. Seems everyone is waiting until after the new President takes office.
Happy New Year everyone!

Yes, I hope everyone is having a happy holidays. Happy New Year to everyone! Things should pick up pretty soon here.

[HSVTiger]

Some retail tidbits about 2009 from the Huntsville Times

Scott McLain, who's developing the Constellation mixed-use project at South Memorial Parkway and Clinton Avenue, reported signs of progress.

"Two governmental permits or approvals that we have sought for over a year have come through," he said, "and we can now proceed with marketing three outparcels along Memorial Parkway. Our targeted users are restaurants new to Alabama or at least to Huntsville."

There have been visits from retailers for other parts of the project, said McLain, adding that he has held talks with a number of possible office tenants.

"I spend time on (the Constellation project) every day because there's activity on it every day," he said.

More growth is in store for Bridge Street in 2009, said Niki Hogan, director of marketing for the mixed-use development.

The Station, a 28,000-square-foot entertainment complex, is scheduled to open this summer, she said. It will be on the second floor above Coldwater Creek and Chico's. The Sports Authority, the anchor and first announced tenant of phase two, is expected to open in the fall.

Other Bridge Street tenants scheduled to open in the first quarter are Stymies, a barbershop; The Melting Pot fondue restaurant; Frock Candy, a clothing store; and Vintage Wine & Cigars.

So far, "we have felt little delay" because of economic conditions. "The delays we have suffered thus far have been permit-related, and those issues are about complete now. We are ready to receive commitments and to start construction as soon as possible. This is a front-burner, full-speed project for us."

Already announced for Constellation is a six-story, 153-room SpringHill Suites.

Cole Walker, developer for the planned Harris Hill mixed-use project at Interstate 565 and Moores Mill Road in northeast Huntsville, said the project's retail side has "slipped into low gear." He said the economy will determine how fast it gets back on track.


"Everybody has said the economy is going to be the driving factor," he said.

Apart from retail, "we've had interest in an office product," Walker said, "and we'll probably pursue that (this) year."

A Birmingham-based developer who has worked on projects in the Huntsville area is looking to do more in this market.

Fairway Investments, Thompson Tractor's real estate arm, is building a 39,000-square-foot Thompson Tractor facility near Governors Drive's intersection with I-565. It's set to open early this year. The company also developed Heritage Shopping Center at U.S. 72 and Lawsons Ridge Road. That shopping center, anchored by TJ Maxx, is about 85 percent leased.

"We hope we can do more retail development in the area," said Paul Darden, a project manager with the company. Despite economic troubles facing the country, "we feel Huntsville is still strong and has some good opportunities."

While noting some of the vacant retail space in the area, Beck of The Shopping Center Group said those empty buildings could create "an enormous amount of opportunity."

"The quality of many locations that are available is very good," he said. "When economic conditions improve, the availability of quality retail space will be a positive to the area.

[neilson]

Goody's is liquidating, so there go 2 locations in Huntsville.

Madison Square Mall is looking dire right now. CBL needs to have something up their sleeves just to get the mall through 2009. It's all well and good to hope for new retailers and adjustments to the mall in 2010-2011, but first you gotta actually survive to get there.

Discuss.

[mp7123]

wonder what happened to the other announced tenants for the office building. CSC locating at Bridge Street is a good thing. It will probably speed up the construction of the second office building (maybe a bank since there isn't one at B.S. suprisingly) since CSC will occupy the entire 6 floors.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Do the Goodies closings include the one in Decatur?

[neilson]

Originally Posted by Alabadrock

Do the Goodies closings include the one in Decatur?

ALL Goody's are liquidating.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by mp7123

wonder what happened to the other announced tenants for the office building. CSC locating at Bridge Street is a good thing. It will probably speed up the construction of the second office building (maybe a bank since there isn't one at B.S. suprisingly) since CSC will occupy the entire 6 floors.

Yeah this is a good thing, the other office building may be located just west of DSW shoes or across the street in the under construction strip center.

Doug Badia of Bridge Street developer O&S Holdings in Beverly Hills, Calif., also noted the likely boon for Bridge Street retailers and restaurants with 300 built-in customers on weekdays.

With this building now fully leased - O&S started construction on it in 2006 as a speculative (no signed tenants) building that could accommodate many firms - the developer is already planning a second office building for the 100-acre project.

Badia, executive VP of operations, said O&S will begin marketing and preleasing the second building, similar in size to the first, in the next few months.

[HSVTiger]

Some downtown renovations; oh and the Sam and Gregs restaurant mentioned is very good.

By MARIAN ACCARDI
Times Business Writer [email protected]
Owner gives 2 buildings a facelift with a nod to styles from the past

The two buildings in the middle of Courthouse Square's north side have gone through some dramatic changes over more than a century.

When a longtime tenant, The Jewel Shop, moved out of 117 North Side Square last summer, the buildings' owner decided to transform the space once more.

Margaret Anne Goldsmith renovated 117 North Side Square, leaving behind its original brick walls, hardwood floors and bead-board ceiling to give it a look similar to the space next door - 119 North Side Square - which was renovated four years ago. That building is now leased to Sam and Greg Hathorn for Sam & Greg's restaurant.

Goldsmith also had the covering on the exterior of both buildings removed to expose the 1950s brick facade. Architectural details were added and the buildings were painted - one green and other red - so each would have its own distinctive look.

"I wanted a more traditional look for the buildings," said Goldsmith, who has owned them since 2000. "It was time for them to join the other buildings around the square" in being restored.

117 North Side Square is now available for lease.

[Jugernagt]

Originally Posted by Alabadrock

Do the Goodies closings include the one in Decatur?

Goody's is closing the store in Muscle Shoals but not Huntsville and Decatur.

[Jugernagt]

Originally Posted by neilson

Madison Square Mall is looking dire right now. CBL needs to have something up their sleeves just to get the mall through 2009. Discuss.

CBL & Madison Square needs to raise and enforce their standards. They need to stop renting to no-name companies that don't do any build-out and use cheap-ass fixtures and signage. It makes the whole mall look like a flea market. I'm sure the big name tenants hate the look of those units.