CLEVELAND | Project Rundown

[riverlover]

I hope that while downtown emerges into a full time neighborhood with all the essentials---that it will also maintain it's own sense of local/independent identity keeping the number of national chains to a minimum, hence not becoming a 'suburb in disguise'

I noticed one person suggested a Trader Joes. I think there are a lot of grocery/farm markets down there already that serve the needs. One more could be good, but as long as it does not put something else out of business. For example, a TJ's could undermine the already great Food Co-Op we have near University Circle. There is also talk about opening up one on the near west side. People want to 'shop green' but here is why choosing to support a TJ may not be as 'green' as you think.

First, by closing locally owned businesses, like a food co op, we lose such an establishment that was originally and still is, as committed as can be to supporting local farms, local products, and thus reducing the need for shipping which demands more use of fuel.

Second, by supporting the local businesses, the co op helps to stimulate their business and keeps things locally owned---instead of creating more ownership by a board of business people who could really care less about the local community---In other words, there are more stakeholders in involved with supporting the local co op, than the big box entities.

Third, you will get more knowledgeable service, gain a better connection with who actually produces your foods. Many farmers in Ohio, are, for all practical purposes 'organic' but due to the process of certification being so expensive, they opt to not gain it. Still, supporting the local farms first is actually the better alternative than supporting the mega organic farms all the way out in California.


The bottom line is that more energy is consumed in supporting the big chains of food producers, than your local grocers.


You can Google 'benefits of food co ops' to become better informed as to all the benefits of supporting such versus the other big stuff that looks great, but actually offers little in the 'going green effort other than turning the whole effort into a fad, which it was never intended to be. And for good reason.

I have a small local business..and also grew up in a small family farming area, so I don't expect others to totally understand what I am saying here...but I would hope that you read about what I am saying about the co ops to make better choices as consumers that will lead to greater sustainability.


If you want to keep Cleveland a ‘one of a kind’ type place that will lure the interested visitor and resident looking for something really different…then let’s keep it real…and try to maintain as much as possible it’s local flavor by letting the talents of the local merchants be showcased..the food growers, artists, and many other merchants. No one will want to move into a city center because they lacked a Wal-Mart where they lived…or a host of other national clone zone establishments that are found anywhere.

The attraction will be the truly unique--something Cleveland has that nobody else has. We need to play on that ideal. Heinins, for example, is superior to just another Giant Eagle--and does not undermine the other local stores. Travelers who may come here will want to see something different. Is Starbucks, Wal-Mart, and Taco Bell something you’d go out of your way to see?

Would you save your hard earned money to take a to a place that basically is the same as where you left, only arranged differently? I know I have not presented my opinions very eloquently, but maybe someone out there who gets it…and will chose to strengthen these ideas by elaborating on why it is essential Cleveland maintain one of a kind identity.

Think about it carefully.

[riverlover]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I just don't get it. Why is it that people feel that allowing Casinos in Ohio will be the saving grace of the economy. It will simply make the poor even worse off. It doesn't seem to have helped Detroit out much has it?

A Casino in downtown Cleveland is a really bad idea.

I agree totally...and only those with average suburbanite complacent mentalities, who think world travel is riding the "It's A Small World" ride at Disney or going to Vegas....are those who think they (casinos)are the panacea to all economic problems and even curing cancer. I see it as a total lack of creativity and individuality---and just following the band wagon. It's just sooo "Wal-Mart" and soooo average. Read my posts.

[MayDay]

riverlover, welcome to the forum - please try to use the "edit" button to modify your posts rather than have three related posts in a row - helps to keep things tidy Also folks, discussion of casinos/gambling should take place in a 'City Discussions' thread, not here (unless gambling is approved and then construction is approved).

Getting back on topic, I did some housecleaning, and added a few updates (new photos for Avenue District, Cleveland Museum of Art, Cleveland State Student Center; new entries for Cleveland State Education Building, University Hospitals Ireland Cancer Center, etc.).

[Xeelee]

Links?

[MayDay]

If you mean the updates, go to the first page of the thread.

[MayDay]

Did a little more cleanup and added the Stephanie Tubbs-Jones Eastside Transit Center, and an updated photo of 668 Euclid.

[riverlover]

Thanks for the updates May...

Speaking of which, I have an inquiry about Terminal Tower and perhaps you, or someone can answer it here. My question is whether or not the whole exterior of the building and flanking ones is going to be cleaned. It seems that On a side note...since the upper floors are being re-pointed, cleaned, etc....that it only makes sense if the stone on the entire complex is cleaned---because, look how clean the top looks now, compared to the rest of the structure---especially one side where the stone is turning blackish.

Also, it would be great to bring back our observation deck. This city needs this attraction back. We have 3 structures over 500 feet offering a great vista of the city and beyond, yet there is no place for visitors to do such activity.

I wrote to Forest City about all this and they are very slow to downright poor with returning information. Can anyone here help answer these questions?

It would be nice to send several letters to Forest City to bring back the observation deck---and perhaps the outdoor one a few floors higher.. I was told once that the outdoor observation deck did exist but it was closed. If it can be used, along with the indoor one, we should write to Forest City to encourage it's comeback.

I remember when it was a fun thing to do when the inside one was open...the upper one would be great!

I am tired of hearing 9-11 or security as excuses at a time when many other cities have their observation decks open.

Lastly, I cannot see the reasoning Jacobs never considered sparing one section of one floor in the Key Tower for one!

[MayDay]

You're welcome - I'll try to get more photo updates but with inclement weather it's not always easy.

Regarding the Terminal Tower, remember that they're just slightly past the half-way point of a FIVE year restoration. And if you get the chance, take a look at the area in the photo below - note the lightness of some areas vs. others. The lighter areas have obviously seen work, whereas the darker sections are next up:


Regarding the observation deck, first - Cleveland has four buildings over 500 feet (Key Tower, Terminal Tower, 200 Public Square, and Tower at Erieview). Second, from what I've heard - there are plans to reopen the observation deck eventually. I seriously doubt they would ever open the outdoor deck - as if insurance isn't high enough for an interior deck.

"Lastly, I cannot see the reasoning Jacobs never considered sparing one section of one floor in the Key Tower for one!"

I'm $ure if you ever $aw a rent check that any of the upper floor tenant$ pay for an addre$$ at 127 Public $quare, you'd have your an$wer.

[riverlover]

Ok, Thanks for clearing , May...it looks as though the lighter areas are being cleaned, so I assume the plan is to clean all the stone. On a second note, I notice that for years the Huron Road side of the Landmark Office Buildings has had a dark stain on part of the building never seemingly cleaned even when renovations were taking place on the building in recent years. Does this mean the stains are impossible to remove?

[MayDay]

^That's a good question - I'm presuming you mean the areas visible in the following photo:


I'm not sure why that hasn't been addressed - for what it's worth, Landmark Office Towers is the only part of the Tower City Center complex that isn't managed by Forest City Enterprises. In fact, I believe that Sherwin-Williams owns/manages Landmark so it would be interesting to know why they've neglected the Huron Road side of their building.

[Austinlee]

This building looks great:



Nice photo, Mayday.

[riverlover]

May, yes, I am referring to the stains you show in the photo. I wrote to the management about that. No reply. The buildings are otherwise well maintained, but the Huron road side is not. Someone else on the forum try and write to them and see if they can get a reply.

Regarding the clinic building. It is a nice one. Off topic a bit though, I notice a lawn style that is not conducive to the Cleveland going green" movement. It is high maintenance and mono-culture. I also find it odd that a hospital, an institution of health, will most likely allow the use of commercial inorganic lawn chemicals on it, which all have many chemicals in them linking to cancer---in addition to the fertilizers which are not conducive to a healthy lake Erie.

With the well known and documented health hazards of these, I think it is a shame that institutions that are in a position to set better examples, follow the lead of the blind masses and the cookie cutter sales pitches of companies like Chem-lawn, who have people thinking the worse of bio-diversity, and actually create a yard ever more so vulnerable to problems.Several cities in the USA and abroad have banned such chemicals because of the known health risks---and you cannot use these chemicals for mere cosmetic reasons.

Alternatively, the implementation of some native grasses and wildflowers would not only look brilliant, as how it was done on the Mall, but would set a great example of a city doing small obvious things that lead to better sustainiblilty and a healthier environment.

Better landscaping in the cities...less energy dependent is a growing trend and the benefits are many. If anyone would like to have some information on this subject, send me a note...


Anyway, if anyone knows why those stains have been on the Landmark Buildings for decades while other parts of the building have seemingly better care, let me know. I think those stains undermine what is a generally handsome facade on the Huron side.

[MayDay]

^If you look at the Cleveland Clinic's other practices, you'll see they do a sh!tty job when it comes to environmental concerns. Exhibit A - their new parking garage is the largest in the state of Ohio; Exhibit B - they were one of the most vocal lobbyists for the new interchange at I-90 and Lear Road in Avon; Exhibit C - their planned health campus for Twinsburg is to be sited on an area of sensitive wetlands. They're not alone in exacerbating sprawl, of course - University Hospitals new facilities at Chagrin Highlands are embarrassingly being marketed as a "green" facility.

[riverlover]

May, I know... It is a pathetic example of health. Somewhere in college they must have slept through environmental sciences. My heading about sums it up for UH Twinsburg. Clear 60 acres to tell us you're green. Ohio simply cannot sustain this type of sprawl no matter how it is justified. The more it happens, the way it has happened in this state... the more the inner core cities will struggle...the more visually cluttered the state will look...which in turn, will not be very attractive. When that happens it will not be a very appealing place to live. The outdated planning takes root in an archaic mentality that a piece of land left alone is worthless...and that resources are limitless. Clinic once had McDonald's in the establishment...I see use of lawn chemicals. Yet, we tout what great health facilities they are---and they cannot even set a simple basic example of a healthier environment. 'Going green' never meant keeping a lawn green all year 'round.

[MayDay]

From cleveland.com:
Cleveland medical mart, convention center site will be on downtown mall

The Cleveland Convention Center will be replaced by a new complex that will include a medical mart.

CLEVELAND -- Cuyahoga County commissioners abruptly announced late Thursday that Cleveland's downtown mall will be the site for a new convention center and a medical mart -- a $425 million project billed as vital to the region's economy.

The announcement came after hours of secretive talks about the mall and a competing spot behind Tower City, and one day after Merchandise Mart Properties Inc., the county's private sector partner, told The Plain Dealer it would reconsider a third site in the Flats.

Fred Nance, the lawyer negotiating for the county, said Thursday MMPI executives promised to meet with Flats developer Scott Wolstein because they did not know that commissioners would be picking a site at the meeting.

More at http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009...for_medic.html

[cyclovert]

i haven't heard anything about 'college town' in a while. it was pretty low-key. is this still happening? anyone have pictures?!? i anyways saw a barnes and noble a while ago but it seemed like the project was really ambitious.

[cyclovert]

^and that's really interesting about the med mart. i liked this location but it sounds like its getting mixed reviews.

[riverlover]

I like the mall site because it utilizes existing space intended for such purposes. I think it is the 'greener' thing to do. I liked the TC site as well---but I also think if placed there, cannibalizes the current convention center site. Other projects can focus on TC. For me, the Mall site edged the TC site by a slim margin. I do not believe the Mall site will have any historic attributes under-minded either---or the spectacular view to the lake and horizon. I don't want to start a rumor yet--but something 'might' happen at the Galleria that could make the Mall site even better.I do not know of structural concerns at the Mall site--but I am confident smart engineering and planning can tackle those issues. Or not?

[Rookie23]

Hello, I am new to this site.

I live in a small little city called Columbiana (south of Youngstown), and I am interested in Cleveland development more than any other city. In fact, I am currently trying to get into Cleveland State's urban studies program. My dream is to be an urban planner.

I have a few questions:

1. I know with the economy, Flats East Bank is currently on hold, but is this site going to be affected by the new convention center?

2. Any new renderings of the new convention center?

3. When is the restoration of Terminal Tower going to be finished?

Thanks for any info. And glad to be a part of this site. Cleveland is by far my favorite city, and is has so many amazing neighborhoods, and a rocking downtown. I visited Cleveland State back in November and while I was standing next to the construction of the new student center, all I found myself doing was looking at Cleveland's beautiful skyline. lol

[MayDay]

Welcome to the skyscraperpage.com forum! I'm actually a native of Salem, Ohio - just a few minutes west of Columbiana

Regarding the Cleveland State program, I *highly* recommend that you pay a visit to the forum at urbanohio.com. It's an Ohio-wide site, but there are a lot of Clevelanders including both alumni and current students of the CSU Urban Planning program.

As for your questions:

1. Not likely. The developers (MMPI) have stated very clearly that the Medical Mart/Convention Center will go into a redeveloped Mall B site. If you mean "will the convention center help the Flats East Bank project", it's possible via spin-off but that would also have to include improvement in the overall economy so that Wolstein (Flats East Bank developers) can get the funding they need to continue.

2. There haven't been any official renderings of the convention center other than the conceptual images on the first page of this thread.

3. Probably sometime in the two to three years. As you may have seen in some of my photos, the work on the upper portion of the tower has accelerated quite a bit - but of course with such a large and intricate building, these things take time. Here's an update on the progress: