The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Wait, are you implying that the street that used to house Greasy Bill's Used Goods isn't skid row?

I think the utility poles should be buried too, but to me it isn't a top priority, especially on Union Street. Having a nice sidewalk isn't going to suddenly make the Iceberg or an empty gravel lot suddenly look like a gem (I realise that improvements to the road might eventually spur investment in the buildings along it, but you get my initial point). I think that streets like Prince William are much more pressing locales for these improvements, although I wouldn't complain if Union got done in the next few year.

I think Union has been looking up lately. I think that burying lines here would be a more significant improvement than in most of the central city, being that Union is worst off, the marginal return could be the greatest here.

[nwalbert]

I also recently noted that union street has been looking better. There are a number of new retailers, particularly clothing stores that I noticed. I assumed that much of this is being driven by the Asian population, but it is simply that, an assumption.

[kwajo]

Okay, you're right, I take back my jokes about Union St., after-all it does have my favourite Uptown store (the Scout Shop)

Originally Posted by excalibur

Long wharf has absolutely no comparison to the Tucker park plan - it is not anti- development or close minded to rush to develop everything . Public opinion will be molded and shaped by the local media on this issue through selective information being published. There are probably citizens in Saint john who have never even heard of the Tucker park beach - promote it and it will be used because it is truely a jewel.Check at the local land registry and it is interesting to see who owns the land which borders this site.

Yeah yeah it's the Irvings, don't act like it is some big surprise.

And how aren't they comparable? In both situations a piece of public land was eyed by a specific party for development and the debate that ensued in the media was centered around whether or not that particular developer should be entrusted to privately own what once was public. The point being made is that you rarely, if ever, hear a debate over alternative uses for the site, or of opening the land up to a call for proposals to ensure that the city, the environment and the residents get maximum benefit from the use or sale of a particular piece of land.

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Having a nice sidewalk isn't going to suddenly make the Iceberg or an empty gravel lot suddenly look like a gem (I realise that improvements to the road might eventually spur investment in the buildings along it, but you get my initial point).

lol...true, especially the point re: spurring investment....let's not forget what harbour passage helped to do....

[thebrad]

I do not know if this has been brought up or not. The place where I work does a lot of catering for the LNG. Apparently, they are extending their contract 2 more years, building 2 more LNG holding tanks, and keeping all their current workers until 2010 which is when the 2nd refinery will begin construction. So in order to keep everyone here, they are making work for two years in order to keep them here for the refinery.

[Downtown Bolivar]

^^^While the bottom has fallen out of the oil market, the perception is that there's still a lot of money in natural gas--which there is, especially south of the border. By the way, I would think that the oil market would have little effect on this project since Irving is a refiner and not an oil producer, in fact refiners took a big hit when the price of oil went so high. Only those with vertical production--pumping and refining--made money, hence BP's involvement. By the way, even with Obama elected, the US still has no energy policy and no political will to build either refineries or nuclear reactors, so St. John should have a good long term outlook with such huge energy market just an hour away by car. Hopefully this will provide the kind of investment that it takes to build a truly diversified local economy.

[kwajo]

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/city/article/507188
(extensive boldings are my own)

SAINT JOHN - The $661-million capital budget announced Tuesday by provincial Finance Minister Victor Boudreau has a lot of good news for Greater Saint John.

Designed as a stimulus package for tough economic times, it commits money for projects next year in education, transportation, health care, municipal infrastructure, the environment and tourism.

The budget earmarks $21 million for the One Mile House Interchange next year, along with $13 million for the Welsford bypass on Highway 7.

In addition the budget contains a commitment to complete the twinning of Highway 1 from St. Stephen to where it joins the Trans-Canada Highway at River Glade by 2014.

"All of those things are important if we are going to be an energy hub and a transportation hub and an educational hub and a medical hub," Mayor Ivan Court said.

"We are the largest city in the province of New Brunswick and the economy of the province is reflected by how well Saint John is doing."

Safe roads around the province are a priority, he said.

"And it will create immediate jobs, which is the direction the FCM (Federation of Canadian Municipalities) wanted both the federal and provincial governments to go," he said. "It should help us in these hard economic times to stimulate growth."

The capital budget also contains $12.4 million for municipal infrastructure through the provincial gas tax transfer top-up fund. Saint John already has a commitment from the province for about $5.7 million starting next year, Court said. Council is looking at a request from Paul Groody, commissioner of municipal operations, to commit that money for the next seven years to pay for the proposed water treatment plants.

The provincial capital budget contains the promise of an additional $10 million next year for green infrastructure to provide safe drinking water.

"That sounds like good news. We will have to wait and see if any of it is for Saint John," Court said.

The new courthouse is mentioned, but no dollar figure was included in the announcement. However, Court said it will help the city's economy.

"The drawings are being done and they are scheduled to start building sometime next year so it can be ready for 2010," the mayor said.

The capital budget also sets aside $67 million for health care infrastructure, an increase of $24 million over the previous year. Although no dollar figures are provided, the announcement promises spending on the renovation required to accommodate the English-language medical education program, which will be centred in Saint John but also involve hospitals in Fredericton, Miramichi and Moncton.

"We need money to get the first two years up and running here in Saint John but our partner sites need accommodations and learning facilities for the third and fourth years," said Dr. Mike Barry, who as well as being a medical professional, is chairman of the Saint John Board of Trade.

Training doctors in the province is a partnership and all those hospitals will be involved, he said.

"We need all those hospitals to be fully functional so we can make sure the kids get a good experience because we need a good quality program to make sure accreditation is a slam dunk," Barry said.

Work will continue at the Saint John Regional Hospital on expanding the emergency department and improving radiation therapy technology in the oncology department.

"It's all good news, particularly with the downturn in the economy we are all concerned about," Barry said. "On the heath care side we are all happy to have that investment. It is all needed, and will help create some jobs and maintain state of the art health care."

On Monday, the $44 million earmarked to expand the New Brunswick Community College in Saint John was announced, but no details have been released of how it will be spent. But both Court and Barry said talks have taken place about focusing industrial technology at the existing campus on Grandview Avenue and constructing a new building near UNBSJ and the hospital to deliver courses in medical technology.

[nwalbert]

It doesn't sound like there is a whole for SJ in the stimulus package that was not already planned for the region.

[PartridgeIslandSJGal]

Originally Posted by PartridgeIslandSJGal

Speaking of Tuesday's announcement.. there is a major announcement planned at Ecole Millidgeville North School on Tuesday morning.
It involves the benefit to EMNS and to local district schools, includes district, government and industry representatives.
Is this the related education news we're waiting for?

I also noticed the new signage around Parkway Mall for the http://www.easterntrades.ca Eastern Trades training c/o CompuCollege

Thank you for the Welcome!
Glad to be onboard here for the latest happenings

Discovered the announcement at Ecole Millidgeville North School was the Gift of 25 Smart Boards for 14 local schools. Absolutely great news once again that they can come through with some more positive help for the education system. Posting the local news article.

"SAINT JOHN - Canaport LNG presented a gift of 25 SMART Boards to 14 Saint John schools on Tuesday.

Using special whiteboard technology, SMART Boards allow teachers to create unique visual presentations. They also give students the chance to learn through hands-on interaction. The 25 boards presented Tuesday are valued at $80,000.

This is the second year in a row that the Irving Oil Ltd. and Respol partnership of Canaport LNG has donated SMART Boards to Saint John schools. Last year they presented 10 boards to schools in East Saint John.

Students, teachers, principals, parents, school district representatives and other invited guests attended the presentation at Millidgeville North School.

District 8 superintendent Susan Tipper said SMART Boards play an important role in a modern education. "You kids deserve the best of what we have because you guys are our future," she said, speaking to the students in attendance. "SMART Boards encourage engagement and leadership."

Canaport LNG general manager Jorge Ciacciarelli officially announced the gift on behalf of his company.
"We need to give our children the tools to shape their futures," he said. "I'm very happy that these children will be able to enjoy and learn at the same time."

After Ciacciarelli's announcement, students and principals representing each of the 14 schools tore Christmas wrapping paper from large boxes around the room to reveal 14 of the 25 SMART Boards.

Energy Minister Jack Keir said the gift is a valuable asset for the school district. "Enjoy these SMART Boards," he told the students. "Make sure you use them wisely."

Three students thanked Ciacciarelli and Canaport LNG for the donation in English, French and Spanish.

A group of children were then given the opportunity to demonstrate the capabilities of the SMART Boards by moving shapes with their fingers to create patterns and show off their math skills.

As district education council chairman Rob Fowler noted, SMART Board technology represents the direction in which the future is headed.
"The chalkboard is definitely going the way of the dinosaur," Fowler said."

[excalibur]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Okay, you're right, I take back my jokes about Union St., after-all it does have my favourite Uptown store (the Scout Shop)


Yeah yeah it's the Irvings, don't act like it is some big surprise.

And how aren't they comparable? In both situations a piece of public land was eyed by a specific party for development and the debate that ensued in the media was centered around whether or not that particular developer should be entrusted to privately own what once was public. The point being made is that you rarely, if ever, hear a debate over alternative uses for the site, or of opening the land up to a call for proposals to ensure that the city, the environment and the residents get maximum benefit from the use or sale of a particular piece of land.

How does a commercial /industrial property transaction on the harbour which will have a first rate building aptly located in the uptown core compare to a desire to sell prime waterfront taxpayer owned land including a scenario for tucker park beach to a private developer. And the debate that ensues in the media is not usually considered intelligent debate -accepting no development for this public land is not being close minded or not open to debate on how to best utilize this property as a public area for all citizens within the current budget. Obviously this was not a beach or area you frequented through your years or you would probably not see a great requirement for alternative uses/opening up and getting max $cash value from any sale. Maximum public benefit from the use of one of the last exceptional Kennebecasis River public access /beachfront areas can take on many forms - a plan for improvement does not need a cash sale to be deemed worthy.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by excalibur

How does a commercial /industrial property transaction on the harbour which will have a first rate building aptly located in the uptown core compare to a desire to sell prime waterfront taxpayer owned land including a scenario for tucker park beach to a private developer.

I love tucker park. My friends and I have had made many trips down there when we should have been studying up the hill over the years. I don't think Percy Wilbur should be allowed to develop this area - his work on Brigadoon shows what he thinks a waterfront "neighbourhood" should be, and this is unacceptable.

I think when the city hears a proposal for land that wasn't on the table, they need to pause and decide if the land should be developed. If so, they should hear multiple proposals for the property and not just let the first guy to show up have at it.

I think the IOL proposal for Long Wharf is okay. I think most plans for the Lantic Sugar site were weak, thus the didn't go anywhere. Still, when Irving offered to buy the Lantic Sugar site the city should have considered all alternatives. I think they did to an extent, even going as far as considering an opera house. In the end they decided that the IOL HQ proposal was the best for the area.

They should consider multiple alternatives for the Tucker Park site as well. I bet the conclusion should be that the best use is to maintain the park as a public area. Still, it would be foolish not to consider all alternatives.

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by thebrad

I do not know if this has been brought up or not. The place where I work does a lot of catering for the LNG. Apparently, they are extending their contract 2 more years, building 2 more LNG holding tanks, and keeping all their current workers until 2010 which is when the 2nd refinery will begin construction. So in order to keep everyone here, they are making work for two years in order to keep them here for the refinery.

interesting...and makes sense; if possible, better to spread out the projects and let the workforce dovetail into the next one, otherwise the boom-bust-boom-bust cycle that SJ in recent decades has been famous for would continue...

[PostModernPrometheus]

small story in the TJ in recent days re: the west end of rothesay (kennebecasis park, etc) spening a few million to upgrading their water & sewage systems...


http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/city/article/507203

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by Downtown Bolivar

^^^While the bottom has fallen out of the oil market, the perception is that there's still a lot of money in natural gas--which there is, especially south of the border. By the way, I would think that the oil market would have little effect on this project since Irving is a refiner and not an oil producer, in fact refiners took a big hit when the price of oil went so high. Only those with vertical production--pumping and refining--made money, hence BP's involvement. By the way, even with Obama elected, the US still has no energy policy and no political will to build either refineries or nuclear reactors, so St. John should have a good long term outlook with such huge energy market just an hour away by car. Hopefully this will provide the kind of investment that it takes to build a truly diversified local economy.

good points - and i think you're right - there may be a few bumps, etc in the next year or so, but overall the potential returns from investing in energy projects is huge...when the US in particular comes out of the typical 6-18 month recession, there will be renewed hunger for energy, oil, gas, 'clean' electricity etc etc...

[PostModernPrometheus]

also a story in the TJ re: the Tannery Court proposal in the south end, and the revamping of Shamrock Park.....

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/city/article/508396

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by PartridgeIslandSJGal

Thank you for the Welcome!
Glad to be onboard here for the latest happenings
"

Welcome to the forum; great to see new faces and voices showing up

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by excalibur

How does a commercial /industrial property transaction on the harbour which will have a first rate building aptly located in the uptown core compare to a desire to sell prime waterfront taxpayer owned land including a scenario for tucker park beach to a private developer. And the debate that ensues in the media is not usually considered intelligent debate -accepting no development for this public land is not being close minded or not open to debate on how to best utilize this property as a public area for all citizens within the current budget. Obviously this was not a beach or area you frequented through your years or you would probably not see a great requirement for alternative uses/opening up and getting max $cash value from any sale. Maximum public benefit from the use of one of the last exceptional Kennebecasis River public access /beachfront areas can take on many forms - a plan for improvement does not need a cash sale to be deemed worthy.

Firstly, welcome to the forum & any input, comments & opinions you have are welcome.

I guess the points you raised & the response that Personplaceor thing raise underscore that the wisest course of action is to always consider the possibilities available before selecting what's "most appropriate" - keeping in mind of course that those words are very much open to interpretation; revenue generated, natural beauty, environmentally sound, multi-use projects, aesthetically pleasing, commercial/residential, etc - there are many different ways to look at an issue, and perhaps some very different opinions would be generated on what, if anything should be done with a given parcel of land, be it long wharf, tucker park or another area.

the tendency to jump on the first idea that comes along should be resisted, but at the same time should not be discounted. transparency, public input, etc should always be strived for.

tucker park is a little interesting - yes, it's quite unique in that it is one of the few areas for public beach access on the river system; however, a lot of people don't even know about it - i lived close to the RKYC for a time and was unaware what it was, who owned it, etc. i think most would agree that *something* should be done with it....

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by kwajo

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/city/article/507188
(extensive boldings are my own)

the comments re: i understand that accomodations do need to be worked out, but needing learning facilities in the satellite hospitals for the 3rd and 4th year medical students is a little vague to me - medical students are typically doing clinical (hands on) work / rotations in their 3rd and 4th years...no real "classroom work" per se . . . computer access, some places to study and some small conference rooms with multimedia support would be the bare bone essentials. . .

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by excalibur

How does a commercial /industrial property transaction on the harbour which will have a first rate building aptly located in the uptown core compare to a desire to sell prime waterfront taxpayer owned land including a scenario for tucker park beach to a private developer.

So if a company came forth with a world-class building proposal that fit the neighbourhood of Tucker Park "aptly," would you approve or disapprove? If Long Wharf was used for swimming in the harbour and Irving told everyone to go fly a kite because it conflicted with their building, would you approve or disapprove? Should Tucker Park remain a only a public park, or should we encourage development around it to improve its quality and value to the community? Is having a poorly-massed corporate headquarters offering no diversification on a prime industrial site near an urban core a good reason to give up public control of a property? In my mind many of the arguments are similar, that was my point. Whether one is for or against either proposal, we still need to allow for a more free exchange of thoughts, not partisan battling back and forth between different ideological, ecological or economic parties.

Originally Posted by excalibur

accepting no development for this public land is not being close minded or not open to debate on how to best utilize this property as a public area for all citizens within the current budget.

Actually, I believe that an outright disavowal of all development is by definition being not open to debate on the issue.

Originally Posted by excalibur

Obviously this was not a beach or area you frequented through your years or you would probably not see a great requirement for alternative uses/opening up and getting max $cash value from any sale. Maximum public benefit from the use of one of the last exceptional Kennebecasis River public access /beachfront areas can take on many forms - a plan for improvement does not need a cash sale to be deemed worthy.

I never said that "maximum benefit" meant selling the land for the maximum dollar amount whatsoever, it meant exactly what you yourself have said, that it could mean improving the area as a publicly-owned park, it could mean building a 3000 ft statue to Elsie Wayne, it doesn't matter, it's about having a productive, unbiased discussion about the land and its "value" culturally, environmentally, economically, socially, et cetera. As for my frequenting of the area, you could not be more wrong, as not only did I go to Tucker Park quite frequently when I was a child, but over the past couple years during the Summers I have biked from my home Uptown to Tucker Park to swim at least 3 times a week. I never said that I wanted the area to be developed, if you go back a few pages I brought up the issue in the first place and was very much in favour of maintaining the city's ownership of this public park. Not appreciating the Kennebecasis? Sir/Madame I have spent the better park of the last decade working on various projects to protect its natural capital, ranging from the Nature Trust of New Brunswick's Long Island Conservation Project to ACAP's study of the effects of urbanization on water quality in the Kennebecasis River and everything in between. I have been using the whole river recreationally since I was a boy growing up in Fairvale back when it had a fifth of the population it does today. I respect the river to the degree that despite boating on her quite often the Spring, Summer & Fall, I never use any form of petrol engine and have taken part in many cleanups of debris along her shores. The Lower Kennebecasis River/Kennebecasis Bay means more to me than any other place in the world, and I think you can tell from my tone and the length of my reply that I am obviously offended that someone would ever question my devotion to her.



Please pardon my language and demeanour, I do not mean to offend anyone.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

I went to the Bike Parking open house last night. The group behind this has some good ideas, including the installation of bike lockers. I would gladly pay to rent such a locker to store my bike as my uptown apartment is too small to comfortably store it.