Downtown Vancouver Updates

[Login650]

The City does value neon signs as part of heritage...

"The Pennsylvania Hotel located prominently on the Carrall Street Greenway at 412 Carrall Street, is a Single Room Occupancy (SRO) hotel that is currently undergoing a heritage building rehabilitation and conversion while retaining its SRO status. The historic neon sign on the hotel will be the finishing touch to the heritage restoration..."

And

"Neon lights will be added to the outside of the Chinatown Plaza parkade. In addition, a prominent 5-storey neon sign (using traditional neon and/or newer lighting technology) is planned for the intersection of Keefer and Columbia Streets. The sign’s design will echo the historic neon lights that were famous in Chinatown. The sign will serve as a highly visible landmark for the Plaza, Memorial Square and Chinatown while adding to the area’s economic revitalization."
http://vancouver.ca/greatbeginnings/neonLighting.htm

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Where are you pro-neon/pro-LCD signage people when i need you! i am always pushing that concept in metro-Vancouver and how we use to have more in the past than we do now!

I doubt many people on this board are anit-neon/LCD, I just think most of us are not quite as passionate as yourself. I for one would love to see more neon on granville and maybe even E. Hastings, as well as an expanded LCD screens at the Robson/Granville intersection, I am just somewhat ambivilent. While I would like to see all of this come to fruition, there are other things I find far more important to Vancouver's street scape which i get more worked up about.

[jlousa]

Bingo

I also fall into this group as I imagine do most people.

[SpongeG]

but all the condo owners will whine now

back in the hey day there were no condo towers so close

Pro-lighting specatacular myself but this is nimby vancouver

[jlousa]

Vancouver’s Quest Capital Corp. is suing the developers behind the stalled Jameson House condo development on West Hastings Street over repayment of a $32 million loan. The suit lists Jameson House principals John George James Pappajohn, Thomas James Pappajohn and Anthony James Pappajohn as defendants. According to court documents, Quest loaned the money
to the Pappajohns’ Jameson House Properties Ltd. and Jameson House Ventures Ltd. in July 2008. A subsequent agreement signed by the Pappajohns the same month allegedly promised to indemnify Quest Capital against any losses arising from the loan. The suit alleges the Pappajohns have
defaulted on the loan. Quest sought repayment of the loan on November 17, but, according to the statement of claim, the defendants have “each
failed, neglected or refused to pay the amount demanded.” Quest is seeking $30.4 million, a declaration the indemnity agreement is in default and the appointment of a receiver.

[LeftCoaster]

Hmm, sounds like the final nail in the coffin for Jamieson House.

Damn.

I was still really holding out hope for this one.

Not that there was much, I just really liked it.

[Metro-One]

but all the condo owners will whine now

back in the hey day there were no condo towers so close

Pro-lighting spectacular myself but this is nimby vancouver

And that is my main beef with Vancouver policies. If you own a condo on a small side street downtown then i understand a little nimby attitude, but to those people who buy places on Granville, Robson, and Denman to a lesser extent and other such main arteries of commerce and entertainment, i do feel like sending them a big middle finger. As i have stated before, i do not want all of downtown a buzz, but i would like more buzz around Granville and Robson (and yes i do believe the Granville Robson intersection should have a 24/7 feel with large LCD screen, neon, cultural events and a redeveloped Sears Center (good spot for a large office tower/shopping complex) making it the heart of the commercial entertainment district. And if any condo owners have a problem with that, too bad, you live in the center of downtown on the main commercial drags. I feel lately that Richmond is the only municipality moving in the "we are no longer a sleepy village, but a metro area growing into big city status" direction. Also while most of metro Vancouver is not adding any new entertainment spectacles we are loosing the old entertainment grip. What happened to all the strip bars? seedy to many yes, but they provided another flavor to the city. Now they are all becoming Starbucks with a condo tower on top.

I love Vancouver, 99 percent i would keep the same, but just a few strips, that are already the prominent streets, i would like to beef up.

I think Robson and Granville would be perfect as the funky neon, LCD, shopping, hotel, clubbing, etc... bustling streets, while Denmen and Davie are perfect as the more festive, relaxed mom and pop commerce, not so flashy summer day relaxed (but still busy) streets.

Bottom line, the intersection of Denman and Davie is perfect now with the palm trees, the beach, ice cream, ethnic foods, chilled atmosphere. On the other side of town does it not make sense to have the Robson and Granville intersection as the flashy, hoping, bustling, go go commercial heart? That way we get the best of both worlds and a city that is as diverse as the people who live in it.

Of course not everyone likes the go go LCD atmosphere, and no problem with that, then they can just go to the Davie and Denman area instead for the relaxed atmosphere and vise versa!

Vancouver is a more relaxed city than many others, but with a base population of 2.5 million in the metro, a hinterland base population of 4 to possibly 5 million people (Vancouver Island, Okanagan/Thompson Valleys, Bellingham), massive amounts of summer and winter tourists and a having a gigantic domestic Chinese/Korean/Taiwanese/Japanese/Hong Kong population, i am pretty sure many would enjoy Vancouver having such a flashy district.

[Denscity]

Yep

[vansky]

I personally feel the city is good as the way it is, quiet, people less and full of trees.

[Metro-One]

Yes, that is nice for you, but does every square inch of the city need to be that way? Did you even read my post? People who feel my ideas of adding a little spice and buzz to a select few streets are "not needed" or who say "that is not Vancouver" are as short sighted and stubborn as the nimbys who are against tower developments (urban density) in Kelowna, for their comments mirror those of people here who are against creating varied neighborhoods. The Kelowna comments are always along the lines of "this is not Vancouver, we don't need towers here, we have our own feel" which to me are strangely familiar to those here which run along the lines of "This is not Tokyo/New York/London/Toronto/San fran, we dont need districts like that, we have our own feel." To me it is the exact same attitude when a city reaches a pivotal population/size point. Kelowna is at the point of becoming a small city and no longer a big town, so the residents there fear the ideas of towers and urban density because they are unfamiliar with it, but it is a needed step for the city to continue to grow in a healthy fashion. Vancouver is at the point of becoming and Internationally recognized Metro-Area (a big city), and not a just regional city, so the residents here are against such ideas as beefing up the main commercial and entertainment streets with a little more light/life and a 24 hour feel, but it is necessary to do so in a metro-area reaching the multi millions to give the people and visitors variety. Toronto is having its own growing pains as it is transforming from big city to mega city. It is all the same story, just a different pile!

I am happy about the Granville St. Redesign, it will enhance the atmosphere for sure, but it is just a first step. The C-line station will also open up Granville to Richmond residents more which may actually give more of a push for neon/LCD/street venders in the area. And if you dont like that feeling vansky, then just walk one block over and you will be back to the quiet, people less full of trees vancouver you love. But for those of use who also love Vancouver but also enjoy this style of city living, what is wrong with giving us a street or two? I think that is my true vision, a multi layered entertainment/shopping/business hub in that area. With the E/M line stations already servicing Granville, now the C-Line, it really could happen in the coming decades.

To me loving your city is not just loving it as is, but also dreaming for the future of what it could become. If everyone was so compliant back in the 70's with Vancouver then we would not have the great density and street scape we have now. To me it is reminiscent of the USA divide on patriotism. To me it is not patriotic to do everything your government says, but to question the government and fight for what you think is right and needed for you country, and for me that is how i feel about my city!

[jlousa]

I get a kick out of Metro-Ones posts. I like the fact that he complains about the people that live downtown being nimbyies about not wanting large bright lights shining into their condo units. When he doesn't live downtown and has mentioned in posts that he wouldn't want to live downtown as he prefers to live in a quiet neighbourhood.
So pretty well he wants others to put up with stuff he doesn't want in his own backyard, I think that's called NIMBY.
Just because someone chooses to pay extra to live downtown so they can be close to amenities, shops, restaurants, night life, etc shouldn't mean they have to give up the right to be able to sleep peacefully at night or that they can't be vocal about want they want in their neighbourhood as opposed to what others want.

I wasn't thrilled about the Opus not getting the rooftop lounge, but I respected the right of those people to complain, and to be honest they did have a point, it wasn't the best location for it.
Controlled nimbism is what makes Vancouver so great, without it we would have a much worse city. Again we are obviously doing something right when other cities are copying us.

[Metro-One]

jlouse i live in an apartment in Metro-town on Kingsway, and i fully support 24 hour shops and amenities at my doorstep, also i look directly into an office building that keeps its lights on 24/7 (why they do that i do not know), so how is that a quiet neighborhood?. I would fully support Metrotown installing large LCD screens and creating a more vibrant atmosphere. And i really don't understand your logic, so everyone who enjoys vibrant entertainment districts has to live in them too? No, sorry, if you buy a place on Granville or Robsons, too bad, that is the heart of the entertainment districts. I think there are plenty of other areas to live on the downtown core that wold not be subject to those two streets possible atmosphere, not to mention countless other areas in the metro area.

I really hope metrotown keeps expanding and becomes more vibrant, but Granville and Robson do seem better suited with their history to be the vibe streets.

Don't be so pompous Jlousa, i get a kick out of your posts too. I have actually considered buying a condo in Richmond now that they have the C-line open because i love night market atmospheres and their pro-LCD movement with the C-line.

I am sure every New Yorker lives in Times Square too.

Other cities are copying "aspects" of us in designated "districts" These cities are also establishing and retaining their commercial entertainment districts.

PS - The reason i do not want to live downtown currently is because a lot of my work takes places in different areas of the metro region and Metrotown is pretty much smack in the middle of any commute (it is well serviced by skytrain and has reasonable access to the #1). But with condo prices decreasing i am actually thinking about possibly moving downtown, and hopefully by then it livens up a little.

I think it is good that Vancouver council is now putting limits on condo development in the CBD, they should do the same along the entertainment district, because mix use residential is great in the "residential" areas because it creates street life and easy access shopping, but it is horrible in the "entertainment commercial" areas *if you allow the residents to dictate, like those of Jlouse. We could have a patio top restaurant if the area was hotels and offices only, for example. How long until the nimby's get their way in Coal Harbour and the planes are moved? To bad about site 8 in North Van, what was the upside down church called again?

It is as if no one is actually listening, most of downtown would remain as sleepy and quiet as it is now in my scenario, it is just the two streets of Robson and Granville, and especially where they meet, that would be the commercial light buzz. But if everyone here is so gung hoe on keeping all of downtown Vancouver a bedroom community then it looks like i got my work cut out for me. As a pacific gateway, tourist destination, olympic city and an Asian hub, there is no reason why we do not have such a district already. Look at the old pictures and see what Granville use to be. The W from Woodwards better re-emerge as well.

[TwoFace]

Metro-One, your making good points, and I do believe that the Granville street and East Hastings re-development is trying to do what you propose.
There are currently many quiet "neighbourhoods" in Vancouver that have their own feel and offer sanctuary within the City, and there is no need to impose noise on everybody/everywhere.
I for one have always been in favour of "designate" areas that cater to entertainment and people congestion, this is the plan of any City, as it’s easier to control and police.
To me Granville/Robson is that area.
Putting life into East Hastings will hopefully also return it to its glory days, and would help to solidify that area as a bone-fide neighbourhood and a destination point.

The interesting thing with the Granville street re-development is that although the end result "should be" more people friendly, we still need to impose some type of incentive or ultimatum on the current businesses to "clean up" their signage and store fronts, as 90% of it will still look like — if it’s not redone or replaced.
Nice clean 1950’s neon should do the trick.

[Metro-One]

I agree 100%

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I get a kick out of Metro-Ones posts. I like the fact that he complains about the people that live downtown being nimbyies about not wanting large bright lights shining into their condo units. When he doesn't live downtown and has mentioned in posts that he wouldn't want to live downtown as he prefers to live in a quiet neighbourhood.
So pretty well he wants others to put up with stuff he doesn't want in his own backyard, I think that's called NIMBY.
Just because someone chooses to pay extra to live downtown so they can be close to amenities, shops, restaurants, night life, etc shouldn't mean they have to give up the right to be able to sleep peacefully at night or that they can't be vocal about want they want in their neighbourhood as opposed to what others want.

I wasn't thrilled about the Opus not getting the rooftop lounge, but I respected the right of those people to complain, and to be honest they did have a point, it wasn't the best location for it.
Controlled nimbism is what makes Vancouver so great, without it we would have a much worse city. Again we are obviously doing something right when other cities are copying us.

I think you're missing Metro-One's point, friend. His point is that home owners in downtown should be aware that they're living a downtown life and should adjust to it accordingly. One would expect that the night will be busy and loud because it's downtown. If that is not the lifestyle that suits you, then there are plenty of other options for you in suburban areas in metro Vancouver. Clearly, him being in Burnaby means he prefers the quieter life and if he was to move to Vancouver downtown, he would expect otherwise.

I fully agree with Metro-One's statement. If I choose to live in the city, I should expect a city life. I look forward to that one day when I buy a place close to downtown.

[SpongeG]

i agree that granville and that should be "the" streets

but one block east is now full of highrise condos - that wasn't an issue in the 50's or 60's when granville was all lit up - the reason it worked than was noone lived that close to it unlike today

they probably bought knowing that and tough luck for them but they probably won't go down without a fight

so if to return to that era now there will be more vocal opposition to all the lights etc

thats all

I say plaster granville with screens and lighting etc and the opposers can sell

[jlousa]

Lets clear some stuff up shall we. First my name is jlousa not jlouse, I won't nitpick spelling normally as I'm a terrible speller, but you did it repeatedly thru out your post. It's inconsiderate.
Second I don't know where you live nor do I really care, I made the comment because in one of your previous posts you stated that your ideal home would be somewhere outside the core with a nice yard, hence my rambling about hypocrisy.
I don't believe I'm dictating which way this city should grow or that it should remain a sleepy village. I've always expressed how I feel it should grow, and I've always encouraged the people that live here to voice their opinion. I attend quite a large amount of the city consultation meetings, I try to get everyone from here to go as well, very few do though. I think the people that live here, that pay their taxes here should have the say, not those that come to visit so to speak.
The fact that you would like a mini Times square is great, we get that, you've told us a few times. But I hate to be the one to tell you, it's probably not going to happen, the people that live here do not want it. It doesn't make them stupid or terrible people, they simply have other goals and desires for the city.

I don't believe anyone that lives downtown is trying to make it a bedroom community like some think, anyone that buys downtown knows what they are doing for the most part. They are doing so to be close to everything and they pay a large premium for it. They are still entitled to voice their opinion, and by law they are entitled to the quiet enjoyment of their units. If they don't like something they are free to complain about it and I believe their voice should have more bearing then someone that doesn't live in the area.


By the way the W sign will be back and it will be better then ever.

[Metro-One]

Then your mentality is the problem with Vancouver Jlousa. Also, please show me the post where i say i want to live in a quiet area with a yard. I want to live in a condo in a busy area actually. Also others here seem to understand that if one does want to live in a quiet area, you should not live downtown, and if you do live in downtown, it is a big area and do live on the main streets.

You did bring up a big problem with Vancouver, i would like to go to the meetings but my voice would not count since i am a tax payer in Burnaby, despite the fact i spend large amounts of time downtown. Metro Vancouver is split up into too many municipalities, some need to amalgamate so we can get such issues as creating better entertainment districts rolling. If you are at University that is one of the largest beefs with Vancouver among young people is the lack of entertainment areas and vibe. Having such areas i bet would actually reduce petty crime because the youth would not be left bored at night. Young people need stimulus. We all live in Metro Vancouver, and it just happens that downtown Vancouver is the long established center of the metro area and has the best transit connections and some of the richest entertainment history and selection of facilities, so where else do you propose putting a vibrant entertainment district Jlousa? That is the negative side of having so many people live on the downtown core, yet other cities around the world have done it and also have kept much more vibrant commercial strips between the condos, how have they dont that??? Because they don't allow the residents to dictate everything, because people living there realise they pay a premium to live downtown in the middle of things, well, welcome to the middle. Everywhere has its negatives, some people like to live in suburbs to escape the noise, but then transit is more inconvienient and amenaties are far away. With Jlousa mentality i guesse we should offer distant suburbs the same bus frequencies as main routes downtown, because if not that would be unfair right? Why should those people have a disadvantage in one area in their choice of occupancy when people downtown can have it both ways?

I for one do not want metro Vancouver to become a restful resort for the rich, but a vibrant and diversified area for all walks of life.

The only reason you are being so defensive is because I am guessing you are one of those who live downtown in a fancy high price condo tower near one of the main streets and want to have it both ways.

PS - When i was living in Osaka i could see more LCD screens and flashing signs from the apartment at night than there are in all of Metro-Vancouver, I loved it. People in such cities seem to understand where they live, and they all deal with it just fine.

[ckkelley]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Lets clear some stuff up shall we. First my name is jlousa not jlouse, I won't nitpick spelling normally as I'm a terrible speller, but you did it repeatedly thru out your post. It's inconsiderate.
Second I don't know where you live nor do I really care, I made the comment because in one of your previous posts you stated that your ideal home would be somewhere outside the core with a nice yard, hence my rambling about hypocrisy.
I don't believe I'm dictating which way this city should grow or that it should remain a sleepy village. I've always expressed how I feel it should grow, and I've always encouraged the people that live here to voice their opinion. I attend quite a large amount of the city consultation meetings, I try to get everyone from here to go as well, very few do though. I think the people that live here, that pay their taxes here should have the say, not those that come to visit so to speak.
The fact that you would like a mini Times square is great, we get that, you've told us a few times. But I hate to be the one to tell you, it's probably not going to happen, the people that live here do not want it. It doesn't make them stupid or terrible people, they simply have other goals and desires for the city.

I don't believe anyone that lives downtown is trying to make it a bedroom community like some think, anyone that buys downtown knows what they are doing for the most part. They are doing so to be close to everything and they pay a large premium for it. They are still entitled to voice their opinion, and by law they are entitled to the quiet enjoyment of their units. If they don't like something they are free to complain about it and I believe their voice should have more bearing then someone that doesn't live in the area.


By the way the W sign will be back and it will be better then ever.

I agree. I guess I might be a downtown nimby. I live 3 blocks south of Hotel Georgia. I'm really excited about "The Residences" being contructed alongside the development. Although I'm intrigued about the lighting on the tower, if it turns out to be something that's annoying, you can bet your — I'm going to complain about it.

Yes I live downtown. Yes I knew that there would likely be a tall building on the site when I moved in 3 years ago. Yes I know that buildings can put lighting effects on their towers. But if it turns out to be something that annoys me I'm gonna be all —!!

And I'm not much interested in closing my blinds.

Having written that, I'm really hoping the lighting effects are going to be something really cool that I'll be able to enjoy and add value.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by ckkelley

I agree. I guess I might be a downtown nimby. I live 3 blocks south of Hotel Georgia. I'm really excited about "The Residences" being contructed alongside the development. Although I'm intrigued about the lighting on the tower, if it turns out to be something that's annoying, you can bet your — I'm going to complain about it.

Yes I live downtown. Yes I knew that there would likely be a tall building on the site when I moved in 3 years ago. Yes I know that buildings can put lighting effects on their towers. But if it turns out to be something that annoys me I'm gonna be all —!!

And I'm not much interested in closing my blinds.

Having written that, I'm really hoping the lighting effects are going to be something really cool that I'll be able to enjoy and add value.

I'd think rule number one in living downtown is to get blinds ??? If not for the light from nearby buildings but for your own privacy as well. Why should you complain when there are clear simple things you could do to improve your own living space to avoid light from nearby buildings ? I'd understand it if the lighting is so bright that it penetrates your blinds and distracts your sleep and whatnot. However, I doubt that is the case...