Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

ok so with all these new international flights being added and more on the way you'd think SLC would be ready for it's own WTC Tower.

That will come I think.. It's all sort of coming to a head right now and I think once things have been established and proved successful we will see it built.

[Boiseguy]

I wish the united states would work more towards passenger rail. Atleast regional. I've always thought that building a rail link up to idaho falls would be a good idea. I mean there already is a salt lake express bus route with like many departures durring the day. Idaho falls and Poky are growing quite a bit, and could become the energy powerhouse of the region with many new high paying jobs. With growth, those cities aren't necessarily going to become big cities anytime soon, but it would definetely make for passenger rail to link them to the airport in salt lake.

[delts145]

Utah halts all new road construction

Tax shortage» Weakening economy delays Mountain View, other work.

Updated: 11/20/2008 01:27:06 PM MST

Utah is suspending all planned road construction that isn't yet under contract, halting about $3.5 billion in work -- including Utah County's Interstate 15 rebuild -- until the state's revenue outlook improves, transportation officials announced Thursday.

The move follows a dramatic decline in sales-tax revenues and affects other massive projects such as the Mountain View freeway through western Salt Lake County, Utah Department of Transportation spokesman Nile Easton said.

"This action allows us to make sure we take care of our existing obligations while we continue to work with the governor's office and our Legislature in evaluating what the anticipated reduction in revenue will mean to future projects," UDOT executive director John Njord said in a statement.

The department is compiling a list of about 50 affected projects for release later Thursday. Another 178 projects worth about $2 billion are under contract and will not be impacted.

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[i-215]

NOOOOOO!!!!!! http://darthno.ytmnd.com/

Oh well, I guess I can understand. They have to make their books balance. But it's gonna make a transportation mess once the economy heats back up again.

[delts145]

UDOT puts $3.9B in projects on hold

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705264714,00.html


I-15 traffic near American Fork. UDOT announced that road projects will be put on hold, one of which is the billion-dollar I-15 expansion in Utah County. (Stuart Johnson, Deseret News)

With a recession and lower-than-anticipated tax revenues, the Utah Department of Transportation announced Thursday it is delaying about 50 projects totalling $3.9 billion.

The largest project is 20 miles of I-15 reconstruction in Utah County that will cost $2.6 billion, UDOT Executive Director John Njord said.

The projects that UDOT decided to delay are those that are funded through sales taxes in the state's general fund. "A large portion of our highway construction program is funded through general funds," Njord said. Other sources of revenue for UDOT include gas taxes, vehicle registration fees and federal funds...

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[i-215]

The easy solution is raising the gas tax 25 cents. Now that gas is around $2.00, nobody is gonna miss the extra quarter.

Plus it needs to go up anyway. Wasn't 1994 the last time the adjusted it?

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by i-215

The easy solution is raising the gas tax 25 cents. Now that gas is around $2.00, nobody is gonna miss the extra quarter.

Plus it needs to go up anyway. Wasn't 1994 the last time the adjusted it?

Are you crazy?
God knows gas will only go back up in due time and we don't need to add a extra quarter to that.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Are you crazy?
God knows gas will only go back up in due time and we don't need to add a extra quarter to that.

So. $4.00 vs. $4.25.

I'd rather pay the latter and have a road to drive on, than pay $5.00 in tolls.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by i-215

So. $4.00 vs. $4.25.

I'd rather pay the latter and have a road to drive on, than pay $5.00 in tolls.

I've rather have the $5.00 tolls. At least then I would have the chose not to drive on those roads vs gas we have to pay whatever the price is.

Besides 25 cents more per gallon can add up fast.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

I've rather have the $5.00 tolls. At least then I would have the chose not to drive on those roads vs gas we have to pay whatever the price is.

Besides 25 cents more per gallon can add up fast.

Tolls aren't fair because they punish poorer drivers like me. I can't drive a more fuel efficient car and reduce my toll charge. I can with fuel taxes.

I'm not proposing 25 cents overnight. But over time, we need to set the gas tax to automatically adjust for inflation. Right now it probably should be about 10 cents higher than it is, simply to match its value when the Legislature set it last decade. Make it automatically index, and I'll be happy. And we'll find the state isn't running out of money.

[urbanboy]

Why don't we just stop building additional roads, and focus on maintaining and improving the roads we already have (friendly for several modes of transportation (pedestrians, bicycles, street cars, the automobile))?

[i-215]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Why don't we just stop building additional roads, and focus on maintaining and improving the roads we already have (friendly for several modes of transportation (pedestrians, bicycles, street cars, the automobile))?

You're dreaming if you think we can stop building roads. It's too idealistic.

I could support a balanced approach. I propose higher fuel taxes with 50% going to roads, and 50% going to mass transit. The same for transit fares, as half goes to roads and half to transit. The states and federal government equally invest in both, for ever $1.00 they spend on transit, half for roads, half for rail.

But to stop building roads is as stupid and to stop building rail, no offense. After all, does anybody ever complain their city has "too much" infrastructure.

[delts145]

Draper OKs FrontRunner development agreement
3-1 vote » The objector says the process was rushed

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11081839

A FrontRunner site hasn't yet been determined by Utah Transit Authority, but Draper is getting a head start in the matter.

The Draper City Council, in a 3-1 vote, approved a development agreement last week between the city, UTA and "master developer" Whitewater VII Holdings, LLC.

... Councilman Jeff Stenquist said that by initiating and approving the agreement, the council "showed vision and forward thinking."

"I'm thrilled about it," he said. "It's the beginning of a process that could lead to an exciting and beneficial plan not just for Draper but the Wasatch Front..."

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[WASDEN]

Originally Posted by i-215

Tolls aren't fair because they punish poorer drivers like me. I can't drive a more fuel efficient car and reduce my toll charge. I can with fuel taxes.

I'm not proposing 25 cents overnight. But over time, we need to set the gas tax to automatically adjust for inflation. Right now it probably should be about 10 cents higher than it is, simply to match its value when the Legislature set it last decade. Make it automatically index, and I'll be happy. And we'll find the state isn't running out of money.

I had this idea and it is flawed and far out but I was curious to what yall might think. It functions like a toll, but I call it a "county emission permit." To illustrate the idea I'll use Salt Lake county- at bottle necks comming into Salt Lake County (Like point of the mountain, I-15/Legacy in Centerville) there would be toll stations, lets say like 3$. Basically you would be purchasing a permit for vehicular emission for a day in SL county. The purpose is to create incentive for people to live closer to their jobs, instead of driving(polluting) across multiple county lines, or added incentive to ride Frontrunner into Salt Lake if you have no desire to live near your job there. Now of course this would be unpopular with those commuting into Salt Lake from Utah, Weber,and Davis counties. I'm no fan of adding more layers of taxes and I don't feel we should be dictating where people live either, but its only an idea to combat polution, sprawl, and encourage mass transit. Any thoughts?

[scrapernerd]

WASDEN
I kind of like your idea but if SL county did that to all the commuter and we encouraged less people to work in Salt lake would that decrease the demand for new skyscrapers in Salt lake?
Also every county surrounding SL County would then charge people coming into Davis, or Utah county a fee. then UTA would be thinking they could charge more for frontrunner and call it a track fee or something. Sorry I'm rambling
Good thinking out the box

[Makid]

Wadsen, I like the idea. One change I would make is to give a validation sticker that would cover the cost of the permit each day if the people shop exclusivly in downtown SLC. This could include show stubs from theaters and art exhibits.

This would encourage people to shop/eat and experience culture Downtown.

There would have to be a minimum spend amount of $5.00 to waive the permit fee.

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by scrapernerd

WASDEN
I kind of like your idea but if SL county did that to all the commuter and we encouraged less people to work in Salt lake would that decrease the demand for new skyscrapers in Salt lake?
Also every county surrounding SL County would then charge people coming into Davis, or Utah county a fee. then UTA would be thinking they could charge more for frontrunner and call it a track fee or something. Sorry I'm rambling
Good thinking out the box

Not if those skyscrapers are residential.

[WASDEN]

Originally Posted by scrapernerd

WASDEN
I kind of like your idea but if SL county did that to all the commuter and we encouraged less people to work in Salt lake would that decrease the demand for new skyscrapers in Salt lake?
Also every county surrounding SL County would then charge people coming into Davis, or Utah county a fee. then UTA would be thinking they could charge more for frontrunner and call it a track fee or something. Sorry I'm rambling
Good thinking out the box

Very true Scrapernerd. Maybe the locations of toll points could be determined at a state level instead of a county level to avoid this. Really we're all breathing the same air. I was also thinking the cost of the "emissions permit" could operate on a sliding scale, say, on yellow burn days 4$, and on red burn days 5$. That way there might be more incentive to ride a bus or take a train on those days. Or perhaps tolls might only be imposed on yellow or red days, and free on clear days.

Originally Posted by Makid

Wadsen, I like the idea. One change I would make is to give a validation sticker that would cover the cost of the permit each day if the people shop exclusivly in downtown SLC. This could include show stubs from theaters and art exhibits.

This would encourage people to shop/eat and experience culture Downtown.

There would have to be a minimum spend amount of $5.00 to waive the permit fee.

Good point Makid I hadn't actually thought about how such a measure might negatively affect retail. Honestly I thought it might encourage retail development closer to where people actually live, or encourage residential development closer to retail, ect.

[jtrent77]

The fee that you propose Wasden has already been proposed in both Manhattan as well as in the DC areas--where there are FAR more people commuting from out of the city into the urban environment. As you might guess, it is very unpopular with commuters. In the NYC/DC situation if one ever passes, there won't be a whole lot that people can do about it--people live outside of cities for a reason, and they'll just have to choke on the additional cost.

However, in the SLC region, I think it would end up hurting the area more than helping. People would no longer travel downtown to shop, might try to find other jobs locally, etc. The problem with these taxes is it ends up creating a bitterness from those outside of the area.

As unpopular as I would be for proposing it, I think gas taxes should be raised and applied STRICTLY to mass transit systems. No borrowing of money for other projects like the federal government has done with social security. Ultimately, if we want mass transit to be more successful, it should end up being either cheaper or at least the same cost as what it would be for me to drive and park in the city--right now, even if you include wear and tear on your car and time costs, in most situations of going to SLC it is still cheaper to commute on your own than to take public transit.

[i-215]

Another thing to consider is the illusion of closure. For your average commuter, they wouldn't be happy with tolls (no matter the type) but they'd tolerate them. Upscale folks might actually like them because their money grants them the privilege of using the road with light traffic.

But to the lower middle-class and the poor, a toll is a slap in the face. They see the toll booth, and it sends a message: "You don't have the right to travel."

I'd rather have a more socialized world where we take down barriers to entry, allowing people the right to move. I'd also support removing fares from mass-transit, using sales taxes to pay for it instead. Ridership would go up, for sure. I know I'd be much more inclined to ride a bus for a few blocks. But fareless transit is an unpopular idea with quite a few people.

So, although I can see logic in your idea Wasden, I could not support it on principle. Tolls close society, and divide us into classes: Those who drive the toll roads and those who drive the prole roads.

Tolls make travel harder. Government's job is to make travel easier. That's why we pay taxes!