Pedestrian killed today on Main at James

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Are you guys joking? What "agenda"? Safer streets? You consider safety for all road users some sort of underhanded agenda? To further our own gain? The only personal gain I'll get from fighting for speed reduction will be not dying when I try to use the road. And not having to suffer the loss of a loved one on our streets. And not having to read about a stranger dying every 6 weeks or so. This isn't some dark ploy. Man, I can't believe posts like this. This is exactly the time to be discussing how we can reduce fatalities on our streets. Actually, the time was years ago. So when would you like to address the issue? Shall we wait another week? A month? A year? How many more pedestrians need to die before it's "safe" to talk about reducing deaths? Or is it that you think that the current level of safety is statistically acceptable?

Also, I'd like to point out that I, personally, am not talking about two-ways alone - this isn't tunnel vision. I'd like to see de-timed lights as a first step, and exploration of other measures - street parking, wider sidewalks, better enforecment (even photo radar), and yes, two way conversions.

This isn't about two way conversions - it's about questioning the safety of the major through streets of our core - wondering if they are needlessly dangerous - and exploring possible solutions if so. It's about making our downtown a comfortable and safe place for everyone, not just through traffic.

I am all for safe roads. If we could cut the accident rate down to zero, I would be fine with that.

The typical response on here has been to bring up the Main Street "highway" and talk about how especially dangerous Hamilton's roads are. Main Street was not at fault in this instance and I do not believe that Hamilton's roads are any more dangerous than those you would find in any other city. I can't imagine that the speeding was involved here either, given that the accident happened while the driver was turning.

What exactly is the issue that you would like to address here? Traffic fatalities on Main Street? Traffic fatalities in Hamilton? In Canada? In the world? An ideal fatality rate would be zero, but that will never happen. What would be acceptable? Where is the system failing us?

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by adam

"Some random person's driving habits" is the underlying issue. As the minivan was cutting me off, this fatality was all I could think about.

The reason why I ride a bike (while my brand new car is parked) and try to walk places is to help encourage a shift from driving cars that cause many fatalities every year, belch toxic fumes into our air, and have a monopoly on our public space (think about that one carefully) to walking, cycling and taking public transportation.

You contradict yourself in your response when you call a person's driving habits a petty rant. This is cold and callous given the recent fatality.

It is so difficult for me to follow what you are trying to say (linking this accident to some guy's driving habits to toxic fumes??) that I almost think you are Sarah Palin.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

To all,

We are getting further and further from the thread's purpose. There is a bike thread, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=151584&page=4

Mods, best move my "rant" to that thread, then.

[Millstone]

The repaved section of Main is a bit easier on the nerves to drive on.

[adam]

Lets remember this fatality next time we get behind the wheel. Drive the speed limit (or lower - look up the definition of limit if you have to!), look out for pedestrians and cyclists, and leave your attitude at home.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by Millstone

The repaved section of Main is a bit easier on the nerves to drive on.

I haven't drove it yet (possibly later this morning). Does smoother = faster?

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

I haven't drove it yet (possibly later this morning). Does smoother = faster?

sadly, yes. It's been insane to stand at Main/Locke now...people are just screaming by.
I'm embarassed to be a Hamiltonian when I look all the way down that street and see virtually no sidewalks, not a soul on them and 5 freshly paved/painted lanes roaring through the neighbourhood.
We really suck in this city sometimes.

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by BCTed

What exactly is the issue that you would like to address here?

The fact that our downtown streets are designed to prioritize automotive through traffic to the point that we just shrug our shoulders at the pedestrian death rate and consider it an acceptable cost. You consider the number of pedestrian deaths this year to be statistically normal. I consider 8 (or is it 9) to be abnormally high. I'd be interested in the stats from other cities near us, both larger and smaller (maybe st. catharines, london, toronto).

But statistics in my mind are an aside - the speed and width of roads in our city have no place in the core. The downtown is for everybody, not just through traffic.

[adam]

Trolling in a thread about a lady's death is beyond reproach.

[MsMe]

Originally Posted by adam

Trolling in a thread about a lady's death is beyond reproach.

Well we do need to try and open people's eyes about making the streets more safe for pedestrians and vehicles.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

I haven't drove it yet (possibly later this morning). Does smoother = faster?

No.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

I haven't drove it yet (possibly later this morning). Does smoother = faster?

Didn't drive it today. Many would be please that at Hwy 6 and 403 we took 403 & QEW to Centennial parkway vs. city streets.

So 1 vote for faster, and 1 for not faster. I guess they cancel each other out and there has been no change in speed

If I had to guess I would say faster.

[Millstone]

I drive about 50-60 along that stretch, regardless of the riceburners zipping around me. It's just smoother.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by BCTed

Either case blows a hole in your exploitative suggestion that the "highway" was at fault in this instance.

Not necessarily. There is another danger inherent in one way streets: Since traffic only comes from one direction, we tend to look one direction as drivers before making a turn. To check the other direction for pedestrians does not come as naturally.

Even if none of these issues are directly related to the recent accident, Hamilton's road configuration for 50 years has made us accustomed to travelling quickly and easily through dense areas with alot of pedestrian activity. Where we have less space on the road, traffic moves slower and pedestrian crossings are more frequent, we are more aware of the activity around our cars and the possibility of hitting something or someone. Hamilton's road configuration produces the opposite effect.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by Millstone

I drive about 50-60 along that stretch, regardless of the riceburners zipping around me. It's just smoother.

exactly right....50-60km you can be guaranteed that there are people zipping around you. 60-80 is COMMON in that stretch.

[adam]

Did bike lanes go in as promised by the mayor? He made a promise to put in bike lanes to every resurfaced road.

[Millstone]

none there, none on wilson, none on cannon/york in front of tim horton's.

[raisethehammer]

there has been a TON of road resurfacing since he won the mayoral election.
By my calculations, exactly zero of those streets have had bike lanes added.

[highwater]

Just received from McHattie's office:


Thursday, November 13, 2008
2:00 pm to 4:30 pm
DALEWOOD RECREATION CENTRE
1150 Main Street West

OR

6:30 pm to 9:00 pm
DUNDAS TOWN HALL
60 Main Street

There are over 3,300 traffic collisions reported to the police in Hamilton annually. That number has been on the rise since 2004. Traffic collisions cost Hamilton road users and taxpayers more than $450 million every year.
The City of Hamilton and the Hamilton Police Service, along with our partner agencies, are undertaking a focused program to reduce the deaths, injuries, trauma and property damage caused by traffic crashes. This new Strategic Road Safety Program will use traffic engineering, police enforcement, public health services, public education, and enhanced legislation to reduce the number of collisions.

The City of Hamilton’s Public Works Department and the Hamilton Police Service encourage you to come to either of the Public Information Sessions on November 13 to share your traffic safety concerns and expectations and to learn more about traffic safety trends in Hamilton.

With your input and support we can build a program that will successfully reduce traffic fatalities and injuries in Hamilton.

For more information:

Hart Solomon Manager,
Traffic Engineering and Operations
Public Works Department, City of Hamilton
Phone: 905 546-2424, ext. 4584
Fax: 905-540-5926
E-mail: hart.solomon@hamilton.ca

Michael E. Trickey,
P.Eng., P.E.
Vice President, TRANS Consulting Inc.
Phone: 905-882-4100, ext. 5313
Fax: 905-882-1557
E-mail: mtrickey@itransconsulting.com

[adam]

I can just imagine Lloyd Ferguson's response to this one "We can't afford to reduce the # of traffic related deaths because we are not a wealthy city"