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  #5921  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 9:45 AM
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^ That's true, but either way, Union Station has a very bright future as the next transportation hub of the West Coast (and the TransBay in SF). Being a true hub will undoubtedly attract much more investment and elevate the area around it to a much higher priority level on city officials' minds. Most notably, capping the 101 freeway and revitalizing Chinatown/El Pueblo and possibly the LA River.

The Twin Towers jail must be relocated somewhere else in the county as that is directly across the street from Union Station. It would be very awkward to have that next door when millions of visitors will be arriving at Union Station.
     
     
  #5922  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 11:11 AM
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I'm not sure exactly what kind of retail would normally spring up around a HSR station, but in busy train stations around the country it seems to be mostly dining/food court, with maybe a few gift shops/book stores. Similar to what you see in airports. Hotels OTOH don't seem to be too common, likely because the stations are typically close to the CBD, where numerous hotel options exist.

Still, it's all good for downtown in the end.
     
     
  #5923  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 12:42 PM
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is there a source that states union station is the 5th busiest in the US? just curious.
     
     
  #5924  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 4:07 PM
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It's not 5th busiest in the US. The station is AMTRAK'ss 5th busiest station having 1,464,289 Amtrak boardings and deboardings in 2006. Still very impressive!
     
     
  #5925  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcat View Post
I'm not sure exactly what kind of retail would normally spring up around a HSR station, but in busy train stations around the country it seems to be mostly dining/food court, with maybe a few gift shops/book stores. Similar to what you see in airports. Hotels OTOH don't seem to be too common, likely because the stations are typically close to the CBD, where numerous hotel options exist.

Still, it's all good for downtown in the end.
Union Station in Washington DC has real amazing amount of retail. There are several full scale restaurants, a food court, tons of other shops for everything from clothing to electronics. It is really pretty nice.

Here is a link.

http://www.unionstationdc.com/

It would be interesting to see if LA could do a similar thing. I think it would be great if the platforms could be underground and the area above the station could be developed. There are ways to do underground stations that are very nice, much nicer than something like Penn Station in NY.

Here are some pics of DC's Union Station.











     
     
  #5926  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 9:17 PM
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^I've never been to DC's Union Station but had heard it was very nice. Something like an indoor shopping mall probably wouldn't be built in LA, though, since I think the idea is to actually pump life onto the streets rather than — it up indoors.
     
     
  #5927  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 9:22 PM
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^ The idea isn't so much an indoor mall, but to figure out a way to "reclaim" some of Union Station. I also wanted to show that train station retail doesn't need to be only magazine stands and pizza-by-the-slice.
     
     
  #5928  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 10:46 PM
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I went to Washington D.C. Union Station one time to catch the Acela Express to Boston, and I gotta say, the station is amzing! It's just like an airport except a lot more relaxed, more room to move around, and even has movie theaters!
     
     
  #5929  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 11:23 PM
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the station in DC is very nice having been there myself, but its reasonable to have all that retail there because the station is very much integrated into civic life there. So even if you dont have business travelling you can still drop in for a meal or a movie because its very much in the city. union station on the other is kinda alone and sad.
     
     
  #5930  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2008, 11:42 PM
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^ I agree. I would want to put things around Union Station before I put things in it.
     
     
  #5931  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2008, 12:08 AM
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not much room to put things in union station don't you think? i mean for the notion that it's a "last great" whatever that means, it's really puny in comparison to eastern stations. union station,though quite pretty, is rather disappointing for a city the size of LA and feels more like some rich guys living room than the central train station of some great metropolis. this is especially true if one is to believe HSR will stop there some day. and it's a shame catellus decided to profit by developing a short sited suburban office park and apartment on the property. pretty stupid indeed.

there are many things that need to be done with union station eventually - such as build a much larger station to envelop it.
     
     
  #5932  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2008, 3:12 AM
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It isn't grand or epic. But aesthetically, it has a cool sophistication that's lacking in the ones that are inspired by classical Greece. It still looks relevant and modern and would have a positive impression for people arriving. If it's to become the central hub for HSR, I agree that it's much too small. There needs to be an extension. If there's to be retail or shopping components, it should be in a new expansion rather than in the original station.

Last edited by ocman; Nov 8, 2008 at 3:23 AM.
     
     
  #5933  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2008, 3:26 AM
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I wonder if this news is going to cause any immediate increase in land or property sales.
     
     
  #5934  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2008, 3:42 AM
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Big Project, Little Progress

Federal Courthouse Effort Stalls As City Begins to Eye Vacant Site in Civic Center

By Richard Guzman

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - With talks on a proposed courthouse in the Civic Center having effectively collapsed, a Downtown official has signaled an intent to begin looking at plans to acquire the land set aside for the project, which is currently a 3.6-acre vacant eyesore.

"It may be an opportunity for us and that's something I would like to investigate," said City Councilwoman Jan Perry, whose Ninth District includes much of Downtown Los Angeles.

Perry is meeting with the city's Chief Legislative Analyst to discuss approaching the federal government, which owns the land at the southwest corner of First Street and Broadway, and inquire about purchasing the property. An effort to build a new courthouse there stalled after estimates soared to $1.1 billion.

"I'm not sure what the best use of that land is," she said. "[I want] to see if there is any way we can approach the feds to see what their intentions are and whether or not they want to offload that property, or perhaps work in coordination with us to get that piece of land developed in some way."

The federal government purchased the land from the state of California for $2.5 million in 2003. It once held a state office building, which was demolished last year.

In 2000, Congress appropriated $400 million to build a 41-room courthouse on the site. Since then the General Services Administration, which acts as a landlord for federal agencies, spent $16.9 million to acquire and prepare the site, and another $16.3 million on designs for a 41-room courthouse.

The project ground to a halt this year when a report by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative office for Congress, found that due to delays and design changes, estimated costs had tripled to more than $1.1 billion, making a 41-room courthouse unachievable.

Since then, the Federal Court Committee overseeing the project and the GSA have tried to come up with a scaled-down plan. However, negotiations between the two have also stopped as they argue about designs.

Despite the stall, some federal officials say it is too soon to start making other plans for the land.

"I think that is premature," said Victor Castillo, legislative director for Congresswoman Lucille Roybal-Allard, who led the way in securing $400 million for the project, which was originally slated to open in 2006.

"Neither [Roybal-Allard] nor the judiciary is ready to give up on the project," Castillo said.


Not Enough Space

Negotiations stopped late last month after it became clear neither side would budge from its preference on a scaled-back courthouse, said Gene Gibson, regional public affairs officer for the GSA.

"We continue to want to work out details. The courts of course have some different ideas, and right now we're not getting very far," she said.

Los Angeles federal courthouse operations currently are split between two buildings Downtown: the Spring Street Courthouse, built in 1938, which holds 32 courtrooms, 11 of which do not meet the judiciary's minimum standard for size; and the Roybal Federal Building, erected in 1992, which holds 34 courtrooms. Together they do not offer enough space to meet the growing demand for courtrooms.

The GSA is recommending a 20-courtroom, 20-chamber building at the vacant site and adding 12 courtrooms to the Roybal edifice. That would cost about $700 million, or about $300 million more than what Congress already appropriated.

Meanwhile, Margaret Morrow, a judge at the federal district court and chief of the Federal Court Committee overseeing the project, said they are pushing for a 36-courtroom, 45-chamber building at the vacant site.

"It's the best option because it could put all district judges in one building and all of the magistrate judges in another building," she said. "Because those two different types of judges do different functions and they handle different types of hearings, it would make it easier to organize work and have the public understand where they should go for a particular proceeding."

However, estimates by the GSA put that option about $733 million more than what Congress already appropriated, again bringing the price tag for the project to over $1.1 billion.

Morrow said it is unlikely progress can be made on the project until a new presidential administration takes office next year and a new Congress can decide how much more it is willing to spend.

Meanwhile, as Perry continues to eyeball the property, she acknowledged that the need for a courthouse is a priority.

"My first hope is they are able to work it out," she said. "The need for a courthouse is quite well-documented and very necessary. The facilities have been outgrown by all accounts."

But if that cannot happen, she wants more than a hole in the ground.
     
     
  #5935  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2008, 4:33 AM
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Union Station isn't very large, but it's hardly embarrassing. Although obviously major additions will be required to meet HSR needs. Luckily there's relatively lots of room to grow for an urban rail station.

And much of the retail will need to be inside the station in addition to whatever develops on the street. Let's not forget that we're capitalists and the ability of the station to make money will be part of the overall success of the project. Plus since the station will primarily serve people that are en route from one place to another it's a huge convenience to have the items readily available rather than counting on them to leave the station to wander the neighborhood which may or may not develop in any particular fashion that we imagine.

I wonder if the post office next to the station might eventually be part of the HSR complex? Either way there's quite a bit of room. Especially if we consider building up.
     
     
  #5936  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2008, 5:19 AM
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1.1 billion for a courthouse? Jeebus, the frikking Burj Dubai is a 2 billion dollar project, and I don't care if they use slave labor, steel and concrete and glass still costs real dolllars.

To give you another comparison, the late 90's O'Hatfield Courthouse in Portland, in an expensive Union town (and top 5 of all time cost-wise in the 90's), at 16 stories and 300+ feet cost $192 million. The L.A. courthouse is out of control, are they citing peak 2007 construction costs? —?
     
     
  #5937  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2008, 7:03 PM
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I totally agree about the GSA being out of control on this project. However, there surely are big differences with this project and the one you mention in Portland. The L.A. courthouse will require extensive earthquake systems and much higher security and anti-terrorist type improvements that previous courthouses don't have.
     
     
  #5938  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2008, 7:29 PM
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^ The new LAPD HQ surely has those same earthquake and security systems built into it and it cost $440 million, with far higher land costs rolled into that (remember, they had to acquire additional property through eminent domain for the motor pool).

I just can't see an additional 6 or 8 stories and some design differences costing an additional $600 million.
     
     
  #5939  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2008, 12:07 AM
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Id love to see a nice modern glass addition to union station.
     
     
  #5940  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2008, 3:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAMetroGuy View Post
It's not 5th busiest in the US. The station is AMTRAK'ss 5th busiest station having 1,464,289 Amtrak boardings and deboardings in 2006. Still very impressive!

Oh that's right! That stat was for Amtrak...I read about it back awhile ago.

Well, I wonder what Union Station LA ranks in the country overall then?
     
     
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