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  #7241  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 4:03 PM
cololi cololi is offline
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Originally Posted by utahboozer View Post
So, this being a development thread, can anyone make sense of the new Airport TRAX line's layout?

According to UTA's press release, there will be a new station spurring from Arena at 800 W South Temple. How is this going to get from Point A to Point B when the Union Pacific Building is right in the middle of South Temple and there is a large bridge overpass at North Temple and 400 West?

Much obliged
The alignment between Arena and North Temple has not been finalized, but one of the options is to rebuild the North Temple viaduct including a separate viaduct for the light rail line. The problem with this is that it bypasses Central station and proposes a second intermodal hub. SLC is too small for two. Not good.

Last edited by cololi; Oct 23, 2008 at 6:27 PM.
     
     
  #7242  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 6:14 PM
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cololi, please proof read your posts, they are sometimes confusing.
     
     
  #7243  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 6:23 PM
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cololi, please proof read your posts, they are sometimes confusing.
Thanks grammer patrol.
     
     
  #7244  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 6:38 PM
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Grammar.
     
     
  #7245  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cololi View Post
The alignment between Arena and North Temple has not been finalized, but one of the options is to rebuild the North Temple viaduct including a separate viaduct for the light rail line. The problem with this is that it bypasses Central station and proposes a second intermodal hub. SLC is too small for two. Not good.
Salt Lake is big enough for two hubs, or "sub-hubs". The station on top of the North Temple Viaduct would be the hub for the northern Wasatch front. Most people from Davis county and north would get off at north temple. The current hub, or the Intermodal hub can be the other sub hub for the southern end, from Utah county through Salt Lake County.

The Intermodal hub was not built in a good location, and will not be able to handle the future capacity of all of the trax lines and frontrunner. A northern sub hub will be needed. Just imagine trains from the Airport line, University line, Sandy(draper), West Valley, and Jordan, all traveling to the Intermodal hub. It doesnt work. Not to mention a fully operating Frontrunner.
     
     
  #7246  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by stevena07 View Post
Salt Lake is big enough for two hubs, or "sub-hubs". The station on top of the North Temple Viaduct would be the hub for the northern Wasatch front. Most people from Davis county and north would get off at north temple. The current hub, or the Intermodal hub can be the other sub hub for the southern end, from Utah county through Salt Lake County.

The Intermodal hub was not built in a good location, and will not be able to handle the future capacity of all of the trax lines and frontrunner. A northern sub hub will be needed. Just imagine trains from the Airport line, University line, Sandy(draper), West Valley, and Jordan, all traveling to the Intermodal hub. It doesnt work. Not to mention a fully operating Frontrunner.
From a functioning standpoint it makes no sense to have two. It adds about 3 minutes to both the airport line and the frontrunner line. Having two stations that close makes Frontrunner function more like a local transit system versus the regional function that it was intended to serve. Plus the impact on vehicular and pedestrain traffic on 400 West is negative. Add the davis county LRT and it creates a very tight meshing of three lines junctioning in a half block area. The frequency of the trains, the need for new traffic lights from a shortened viaduct and the turn radius for the airport lines results in complete failure for that intersection. the North Temple area becomes the most critical intersection to the entire system. The potential conflicts and delays and the engineering required are not worth even considering it as a location. For the Airport line to be a success, it has to have direct connection with Frontrunner and the easiest, most cost effective and least impactful place to do that is at Central Station. The other benefit of Central Station is that it has a much higher redevelopment potential due to the nature of existing land use and property ownership.

Central station isn't in a poor location. Given the logistics at the time, North Temple and the area around it had too many obstacles that would have taken too long and too much money to remedy. The current site has plenty of room to expand and it can handle all of the proposed lines travelling to it with some additional track and expansion. The bottleneck on the system is throughout downtown, where the system is the slowest. A downtown bypass is needed to handle the additional Jordan and W Valley lines, and the right of way is in place to do it along 400 or 500 West. The downtown trunk line will exceed it's capacity with all three new lines.

(and glad someone caught my spelling error in a previous post, it was intentionally placed)
     
     
  #7247  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 8:04 PM
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Skyscraper Sprawl?


If every city had it's way. Almost every city on the east side would have their own little skyline.


Cities with highrise. ( If all goes to plan. )
1. Salt Lake City
2. South Salt Lake. ( Market Station 27-stories )
3. Murray ( IHC campus 15-stories )
4. Sandy ( The Sandy Towers 30-40 stories )
5. Draper?
6. Lehi ( The Point 45-stories )


So in say 10 years we could be passing up six different groups of highrises from Lehi to Salt Lake City while driving up or down the I-15.

What do you guys think? Is this too much of a good thing? Should only a few cities have skyscrapers? What are your thoughts?
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2. "LDS Church Office Building" 28-stories 420 FT 1973
3. "111 South Main" 24-stories 387 FT 2016
4. "99 West" 30-stories 375 FT 2011
5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976
     
     
  #7248  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 9:18 PM
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Hey Projects, if Draper were to build skyscrapers, it would be in the area the city is rezoning (along the Draper TRAX extension). Now imagine all those buildings in downtown!
It would be nice if the areas you shaded in pink were the extent of each city's footprint, and everything else could be greenbelts of permaculture and open space.
Think of how clean our air would be!
     
     
  #7249  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cololi View Post
From a functioning standpoint it makes no sense to have two. It adds about 3 minutes to both the airport line and the frontrunner line. Having two stations that close makes Frontrunner function more like a local transit system versus the regional function that it was intended to serve. Plus the impact on vehicular and pedestrain traffic on 400 West is negative. Add the davis county LRT and it creates a very tight meshing of three lines junctioning in a half block area. The frequency of the trains, the need for new traffic lights from a shortened viaduct and the turn radius for the airport lines results in complete failure for that intersection. the North Temple area becomes the most critical intersection to the entire system. The potential conflicts and delays and the engineering required are not worth even considering it as a location. For the Airport line to be a success, it has to have direct connection with Frontrunner and the easiest, most cost effective and least impactful place to do that is at Central Station. The other benefit of Central Station is that it has a much higher redevelopment potential due to the nature of existing land use and property ownership.

Central station isn't in a poor location. Given the logistics at the time, North Temple and the area around it had too many obstacles that would have taken too long and too much money to remedy. The current site has plenty of room to expand and it can handle all of the proposed lines travelling to it with some additional track and expansion. The bottleneck on the system is throughout downtown, where the system is the slowest. A downtown bypass is needed to handle the additional Jordan and W Valley lines, and the right of way is in place to do it along 400 or 500 West. The downtown trunk line will exceed it's capacity with all three new lines.

(and glad someone caught my spelling error in a previous post, it was intentionally placed)
I can definitely agree with the stations being too close, so it acts like a local transit system. However, Frontrunner moves very slow through the rail yards of Salt Lake, and a station at the viaduct would not significantly slow the system down, when the train move so slowly anyway, and if it stays for less than a minute, which it does at the stations.

Trax already have to wait to get into the hub, more trains complicates even that. IMO they should reunited the University and Airport lines, and make them one long line. The train can start of stop at the Med center and go all the way to the airport. Bypassing the Intermodal hub for this new sub hub, thus relieving some stress.

I agree have a station at the viaduct would be expensive and cause other problems, but it solves some and creates a nice civic space. It would be much easier for people to get to the gateway and airport from the north.

The original plans for Trax and Frontrunner, where that the Union Station was to be the Hub. Thats why Trax used to stop infront of it. But the city stupidly sold it to boyer. I completely agree we need a bypass! And yes at the time, the current location was a good choice, but the city had better plans before they ruined them.
     
     
  #7250  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2008, 3:51 AM
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I to feel that Central Station would be the best option for all transit coming into the city, I simply think the N. Temple Viaduct is just so close to be effective. However due to the outcry of residents along 700 W (I think its 700) bringing the airport line into Central Station would have required a new viaduct in that neighborhood, which would essentially separate them from the remainder of downtown.

The N. Temple "sub hub" was the solution to FrontRunner north passenger getting to the airport line sooner, rather than having to transfer at Central and backtrack.

I wasn't aware that the UP Depot was ever actually considered by the city as being the transit hub. I know I have always said that Boyer and the city missed a great partnership. Bring FrontRunner into the station underground with Trax above ground or underground and still building the Gateway would have been a win win for everyone involved. The city would have a historic train station being used as a train station and Boyer/Gateway would have had 1000's of people spilling directly into their development each and every day.

I do like that Central Station is spurring redevelopment of that area. The location is streching the western boundary of downtown into a formerly (still) blighted area. There is so much development potential in that neighborhood. It creates the western terminus of downtown, and connects it with the rest of the city via transit.

I like the fact that we are able to debate the fact that we do or don't like the two hubs. The fact that we even have that ability is amazing, we are one very few cities in the nation that is expanding transit at such a rapid rate.
     
     
  #7251  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2008, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SLC Projects View Post
Skyscraper Sprawl?


If every city had it's way. Almost every city on the east side would have their own little skyline.


Cities with highrise. ( If all goes to plan. )
1. Salt Lake City
2. South Salt Lake. ( Market Station 27-stories )
3. Murray ( IHC campus 15-stories )
4. Sandy ( The Sandy Towers 30-40 stories )
5. Draper?
6. Lehi ( The Point 45-stories )


So in say 10 years we could be passing up six different groups of highrises from Lehi to Salt Lake City while driving up or down the I-15.

What do you guys think? Is this too much of a good thing? Should only a few cities have skyscrapers? What are your thoughts?
I've always told people I know that Earth is one day going to be like that planet in the newer Star Wars films that is nothing but a giant city.
     
     
  #7252  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2008, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroFanatic View Post
I've always told people I know that Earth is one day going to be like that planet in the newer Star Wars films that is nothing but a giant city.

LOL, Let's hope if it were to come to that we would at least have some green space. Watching the star wars movies I never did see a SINGLE tree in that giant city.
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1. "Wells Fargo Building" 24-stories 422 FT 1998
2. "LDS Church Office Building" 28-stories 420 FT 1973
3. "111 South Main" 24-stories 387 FT 2016
4. "99 West" 30-stories 375 FT 2011
5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976
     
     
  #7253  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2008, 6:16 PM
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That city is Coruscant... don't ask me how I know that.
     
     
  #7254  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2008, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MetroFanatic View Post
I've always told people I know that Earth is one day going to be like that planet in the newer Star Wars films that is nothing but a giant city.
And someday we'll all speak in terrible and amatuer dialogue and tear apart entire civilizations over petty motives. Well...I think maybe that latter part is already a reality.
     
     
  #7255  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2008, 8:13 PM
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hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Projects View Post
Skyscraper Sprawl?


If every city had it's way. Almost every city on the east side would have their own little skyline.


Cities with highrise. ( If all goes to plan. )
1. Salt Lake City
2. South Salt Lake. ( Market Station 27-stories )
3. Murray ( IHC campus 15-stories )
4. Sandy ( The Sandy Towers 30-40 stories )
5. Draper?
6. Lehi ( The Point 45-stories )


So in say 10 years we could be passing up six different groups of highrises from Lehi to Salt Lake City while driving up or down the I-15.

What do you guys think? Is this too much of a good thing? Should only a few cities have skyscrapers? What are your thoughts?
You build skyscrapers where they are needed. Too much of a good thing will be very evident if people overbuild only thinking of lofty goals and not through fundamental need.

If you build them they will come does not apply to downtowns or buildings that cannot be filled up.

SLC is one of the cities that has a real future. Yet all of those building being downtown or even in 6 areas is not going to happen until the true need is there and the knowledge that all will be filled quickly is a certainty.
     
     
  #7256  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2008, 3:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Projects View Post
Skyscraper Sprawl?


If every city had it's way. Almost every city on the east side would have their own little skyline.


Cities with highrise. ( If all goes to plan. )
1. Salt Lake City
2. South Salt Lake. ( Market Station 27-stories )
3. Murray ( IHC campus 15-stories )
4. Sandy ( The Sandy Towers 30-40 stories )
5. Draper?
6. Lehi ( The Point 45-stories )


So in say 10 years we could be passing up six different groups of highrises from Lehi to Salt Lake City while driving up or down the I-15.

What do you guys think? Is this too much of a good thing? Should only a few cities have skyscrapers? What are your thoughts?


22-story high-rises in Davis? It could happen
Oct 14, 2008
click on the link below to view the news article from last weeks Davis Clipper newspaper. And carry on the discussions in that thread.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3874535&postcount=397

Look out L.A. here we come.

So, whats up with all these lofty dreams/visions lately? and it seems like downtown developers are the only ones scaling their projects back?
     
     
  #7257  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2008, 5:35 AM
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Holy crap! Another suburban skyscraper proposal! What is going on? Can you imagine if all of these suburban tower proposals were actually proposed for downtown SLC? Talk about a huge skyline change. So, who's next for a 20+ story proposal? Heber? Tooele?
     
     
  #7258  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2008, 4:19 PM
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Wow now clearfield? Who's next?
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1. "Wells Fargo Building" 24-stories 422 FT 1998
2. "LDS Church Office Building" 28-stories 420 FT 1973
3. "111 South Main" 24-stories 387 FT 2016
4. "99 West" 30-stories 375 FT 2011
5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976
     
     
  #7259  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2008, 5:50 PM
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Whatever. None of these are going up.
     
     
  #7260  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2008, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post



So, whats up with all these lofty dreams/visions lately? and it seems like downtown developers are the only ones scaling their projects back?
I bet the reason is because the downtown projects are the only ones that are realistically going to happen so they are more modest proposals.
     
     
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