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  #4621  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 10:11 PM
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King George developer seeks tax breaks
The StarPhoenix
Published: Tuesday, October 21, 2008

The developer turning the former King George Hotel into condos, retail and office space is asking the city for almost $500,000 worth of breaks on taxes and construction-related fees.

City administration is recommending that George Development, a subsidiary of Meridian Development, get a rebate worth up to $31,265 on current property taxes during construction; tax-free status on the condos for five years, worth $420,000; and a 75 per cent rebate on levies worth $46,675.

The tax and levy reductions are in line with the city's downtown housing incentives.

City council will consider the reductions next week. The administration and finance committee briefly reviewed it Monday.

Coun. Myles Heidt said he's excited to see more housing under construction downtown.

"I hope we get more (applications) coming," he said. "Bring it on."

© The StarPhoenix (Saskatoon) 2008

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Saskatoon builders confident
Huge increase in non-residential building permits
Joanne Paulson, The StarPhoenix
Published: Tuesday, October 21, 2008

The value of non-residential building permits has soared 227 per cent in Saskatoon this year to $333.9 million, already eclipsing the $322 million posted for all of 2007, says a new report from the Saskatoon Regional Economic Development Authority (SREDA).

In the surrounding areas, permit values have jumped 1,620 per cent to the end of September, rising to $123 million from $7 million last year.

Shaun Dyck, economic development analyst for SREDA, said in his third-quarter report there is plenty happening in the Saskatoon region.

"There are a few new industrial buildings going up in Corman Park. There's land available out there; it's a little less expensive than in the city," said Dyck.


A landscaper puts the finishing touches on a building on Millar Avenue; the value of non-residential building permits issued through September this year has already surpassed the total for 2007
Gord Waldner, The StarPhoenix


But one project accounts for the lion's share of the permit increase outside Saskatoon.

"We can attribute this big increase in the investment PotashCorp is making," said Dyck. Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan's Cory mine expansion and upgrade will ultimately cost $775 million US to build.

Back in the city proper, the biggest permit was the $123-million permit taken on the Health Sciences Building expansion at the University of Saskatchewan.

"That's a major one," said Dyck, but he added much of the building growth has largely been outside the institutional sphere.

SALES PUSH INVESTMENT


"There has been a lot of investment this year in commercial and industrial, a lot of new warehouses, some alterations and additions to manufacturing plants, distribution centres like Maple Leaf and Star Egg. Our food processing and our metal fabricating are doing well.

"We've also seen, over the last quarter or so, the retail sales numbers and wholesale trade numbers (for Saskatchewan) have the biggest growth in the country. People are seeing retail sales grow, so they're feeling confident in doing expansions or new businesses in Saskatoon."

While rising costs must be factored into the booming numbers, it's still a spectacular year for non-residential construction. Potash, agriculture, mining, metal manufacturing and food processing have been driving these increases. How long these numbers will continue, considering a slowing global economy, remains to be seen, said Dyck.

"They've been rising consistently over the last few years and the world demand for what we do is still there," said Dyck.

"It has something to do with confidence and we've seen a change in attitudes in the province and the region."

Saskatoon residential permits, meanwhile, have levelled out from 2007 -- although they are still at levels not seen since the early 1980s, at $173.8 million, up 0.3 per cent from 2007. However, the value of permits is up 25 per cent in Saskatoon's Census Metropolitan Area (CMA), to $315.7 million from $252.6 million in the same period of 2007.

"In the new house construction area, more multiple-family starts are happening and that's where we see the bulk of new housing starts," added Dyck. "It's a response to rental vacancy needs."

Multiple-family starts are up 38 per cent, while single-detached dwellings are down six per cent from the same period of 2007. Total housing starts so far are up 11.4 per cent in Saskatoon's CMA at 2,095. In Saskatoon, starts are up seven per cent to 1,474 units and in the surrounding area, 23 per cent to 621 units.

LABOUR MARKET SWINGS

In the same three quarters, the labour market has seen some ups and downs, depending on the industry.

Jobs in transportation and warehousing have dropped 25 per cent during the last three quarters and two-thirds of the drop came over the last quarter.

"Possibly gas prices have had an effect on the industry. With gas prices coming down again, that could help the industry," said Dyck.

Manufacturing has increased 3.7 per cent over last year, "which is a good sign that the (falling) dollar isn't affecting us like it is in Ontario," said Dyck.

Overall, employment in the Saskatoon region is up 1.4 per cent to 139,800. Mining, oil and gas industries are leading the way with a 114 per cent increase.

"Approximately 2,000 more people were working in the Saskatoon region at the end of the third quarter of 2008 compared to a year ago," said Dyck in his report. "Since the population grew faster than the employment numbers, the region's unemployment rate increased over the past year."

The working age population grew by 6,400, or 3.3 per cent, while unemployment was up 4.7 per cent.

- - -

NON-RESIDENTIAL PERMIT VALUES FOR SASKATOON

2000: $124 million
2001: $155 million
2002: $142 million
2003: $104 million
2004: $82 million
2005: $180 million
2006: $205 million
2007: $322 million

© The StarPhoenix (Saskatoon) 2008

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  #4622  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 2:35 AM
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Okay, can't we combine the observation tower with some of the other ones

With regards to flight paths, I think we've established some time ago that there's no problem with lifting restrictions on building heights in the downtown.


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Big ideas pitched for riverbank
Five proposals considered for destination centre, which is expected to be major draw
Rod Nickel, TheStarPhoenix.com
Published: Wednesday, October 22, 2008

A 40-storey observation tower, children's museum and interactive performing arts centre are among five proposals a city committee is considering to become River Landing's key attraction.

The destination centre will wrap around the west and south sides of Persephone Theatre and is expected to be a major visitor draw.

Nick Hartle, owner of the Odeon Events Centre on Second Avenue, is proposing the Sky Tower through his company Sitina Enterprises Inc. An elevator would take visitors to the top for the highest view of the city.


A 40-storey observation tower, children's museum and interactive performing arts centre are among five proposals a city committee is considering to become River Landing's key attraction.

Hartle could only be reached for a brief comment by e-mail, but he said the "spectacular" tower would rise more than 40 storeys and include a rotating 80-person gondola observation deck.

Special zoning for River Landing wouldn't allow a building that high, but it's flexible for landmarks with less mass, said Susan Lamb, CEO of Meewasin Valley Authority. There could be another complicating factor for the Sky Tower, however. Structures are limited by the city to roughly 25 storeys downtown because its airspace is part of the flight path.


Three proponents for the destination centre are working together. The children's museum, performing arts "creativity centre" and a showcase of student innovation pitched by University of Saskatchewan, would be a logical combination of interactivity and education, said Tourism Saskatoon CEO Todd Brandt, who's proposing the creativity centre.

The other proposal, from the Saskatchewan Indian Cultural Centre, is for a keeping house of First Nations art and artifacts.

The idea for a children's museum has been around since at least the 1980s, but the group proposing it this time is armed with a business plan, more than 100 paid members and results of surveys and focus groups showing demand for it. It would complement the mostly grown-up attractions already existing or planned for River Landing, said Danielle Chartier, vice-president of Children's Discovery Museum on the Saskatchewan.

"It would bring families downtown outside of retail and office hours," Chartier said, bouncing her daughter on her knee. "Having something to do with your family on those cold dark days of winter would be great."

Exhibits at a Saskatoon museum may include a grain elevator children can climb in and exhibits themed around the Traffic Bridge, a grocery store and potash mine.

The children's museum will open in temporary space in Market Mall in January, but River Landing would be the best location in the city, said museum president Erica Bird. The Manitoba Children's Museum is a key part of Winnipeg's main riverfront gathering place, The Forks, Bird said.

"We've always wanted a space this accessible, this central," she said.

Tourism Saskatoon's proposal for a creativity centre would build on the city's strengths, Brandt said. It would feature interactive exhibits highlighting creative people from the arts and sciences.

"Saskatoon is (known as) a creative city," he said by phone on his way back from Seattle, where he visited a museum that's one of the models for Tourism Saskatoon's proposal. "The idea is to bring that into a focus and develop that as a major attraction for River Landing."

Seattle's Experience Music Project Live, which Brandt visited Monday, is a museum dedicated to creativity in popular music. It includes music memorabilia, taped interviews with artists and interactive features such as a booth that allows a visitor to play with a sound board and change a popular song.

"It's educational, but it was a lot of fun as well," Brandt said.

A virtual stage lets kids perform songs in front of a virtual audience.

"To them, it looked like they were performing in front of a packed audience of screaming teenagers," Brandt said. "Their music was awful, but that's not the point. They were exploring and getting a feel for what it would be like to be creative in the music industry."

Heather Magotiaux, U of S vice-president of advancement, released a statement saying the university is interested in partnering with other destination centre groups.

"We think this project is great for Saskatoon and very much hope to be part of it, but firm details are not yet available," she said.

Saskatchewan Indian Cultural Centre president Dorothy Myo couldn't be reached for comment about the keeping house proposal.

The city-owned destination centre will be up to four storeys tall, with 20,325 square metres of space. Its lobby will double as a warm-up area for visitors to River Landing, with lots of glass on the south side facing the river. Beyond those parameters, the city hasn't begun a design, said Sandi Schultz, chair of the steering committee.

The steering committee has seen the proposals once and has invited the groups to make presentations later this month. After that, the committee will decide whether to proceed with one or more (or none) of the proposals. The tentative plan for the destination centre will go to the public for feedback early in the new year, with a report to council by spring.

All of this carries a sense of deja-vu. In 2005, council backed a plan to build a spaceship-looking destination complex including an observation tower, Meewasin Valley Authority centre, tourist visitor hub and Joni Mitchell creativity centre. The children's museum had been proposed then too, but was rejected. The city later put the whole project on hold.

*****

THE FIVE PROPOSALS:

- Children's Museum: A 7,000-square-foot facility, expanding to 12,500 square feet after five years. It would house six to 12 hands-on exhibits, attracting up to 60,000 visitors per year.

The museum would require a $4-million capital campaign and run on a $650,000 budget. It would be open seven days a week and at least one evening. The children's museum is already incorporated as a non-profit organization, has a board, more than 100 paid members and $25,000 worth of surveys and focus groups behind it. See www.museumforkids.ca.

- Creativity Centre: A centre focused on the performing arts and emphasizing interaction and creativity. Tourism Saskatoon is developing a business plan for its proposal. Check www.empsfm.org to see a similar music museum in Seattle.

- Innovation showcase: U of S is interested in partnering with the museum and creativity centre in one connected space. The university is looking at showcasing the innovative projects students create, such as components for the space elevator, for example.

- Sky Tower: Odeon Events Centre owner Nick Hartle is proposing a tower more than 40 stories tall with an elevator to take visitors to the city's best photo location.

- Keeping house: The Saskatchewan Indian Cultural Centre wants space to display First Nations art and artifacts.

[email protected]


© The StarPhoenix 2008

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  #4623  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 3:18 AM
jaysfan99 jaysfan99 is offline
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A 40 storey tower? YES YES YES!!!
I can't wait to see a picture.
     
     
  #4624  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 3:35 AM
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i was using a canon e10 with a basic 35mm lense, it is not hdr but i am planning to try some hdr photos in a couple weeks i will post them when i am done,

as for the skytower don atchison must have s**t his pants when he heard about that, i think it would be a great idea wouldn't that make saskatoon have a taller building than winnipeg, regina, halifax and edmonton at the moment. truely i would love it to be built, i think it would make riverlanding officially perfect
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  #4625  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 3:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jaysfan99 View Post
A 40 storey tower? YES YES YES!!!
I can't wait to see a picture.
40 storey is a poor descriptor for height. With a quick search of heights of buildings in that range, we're looking at anywhere between 132m (396 ft) to 180m (540ft).

It doesn't sound like it would be a Calgary tower though (e.g. 525 feet from ground to observation deck), much more basic and probably a little bit shorter, but still worth pursuing if they're serious.

I wonder what the price tag would be, or the materials...I'd prefer steel over concrete
     
     
  #4626  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by joelpiecowye View Post
i was using a canon e10 with a basic 35mm lense, it is not hdr but i am planning to try some hdr photos in a couple weeks i will post them when i am done,

as for the skytower don atchison must have s**t his pants when he heard about that, i think it would be a great idea wouldn't that make saskatoon have a taller building than winnipeg, regina, halifax and edmonton at the moment. truely i would love it to be built, i think it would make riverlanding officially perfect
The depth of detail reflecting off the water is quite nice, as is the the sky hovering over the skyline in the Broadway Bridge shot.

Yep, that would make it taller than anything in those cities...how exciting
     
     
  #4627  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 6:02 PM
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Good job on the letter kgc, and I also commend you for following through on this. Not to be nitpicky, but there were a couple of words in the letter (bolded below), which I don't think are the ones you intended (or maybe I'm just reading it wrong):

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgc087 View Post
Ok!

Dear Council,

... This condo is a generic, uninspiring brick box. The replications to the Riverfront are outstanding:...

Council did not let a mediocre project pass through for Riverlanding, why would you compensate your integrity for any other part of downtown? Establish some sort of architectural understanding which will promote the construction of an innovative and inspiring structure worthy of Spadina Cres. and downtown Saskatoon. Think to the future, create the cosmopolitan “Paris of the Prairie” you so desire, do not allow this to be constructed.
WRT to "replications to" (def = copies) might you mean "implications for" (def = the logical expected outcome).

WRT to "compensate" (def = payback), might you mean compromise (def = dimininish in value)?
     
     
  #4628  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 6:13 PM
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It is my understanding that the SkyTower would be 450ft tall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SASKFTW View Post
40 storey is a poor descriptor for height. With a quick search of heights of buildings in that range, we're looking at anywhere between 132m (396 ft) to 180m (540ft).

It doesn't sound like it would be a Calgary tower though (e.g. 525 feet from ground to observation deck), much more basic and probably a little bit shorter, but still worth pursuing if they're serious.

I wonder what the price tag would be, or the materials...I'd prefer steel over concrete

Last edited by zachjeffries; Oct 22, 2008 at 9:39 PM.
     
     
  #4629  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 8:40 PM
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Considering the CN tower only cost 63 million to build, mind you in 1975... we should be able to put something up that would be fairly reasonable in price and would look half decent.

I'm not really that excited about an observation tower though. I'd much rather see a building that height with an observation deck. It just doesn't make sense to construct something that only serves as observation. Look how useless the Calgary tower is today. Now the Empire State building, that is an observation tower that serves more than one purpose...

And if your going to build one as depicted on that website, it looks like it would belong at the exhibition as opposed to downtown...
     
     
  #4630  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by midnightrambler View Post
Considering the CN tower only cost 63 million to build, mind you in 1975... we should be able to put something up that would be fairly reasonable in price and would look half decent.

I'm not really that excited about an observation tower though. I'd much rather see a building that height with an observation deck. It just doesn't make sense to construct something that only serves as observation. Look how useless the Calgary tower is today. Now the Empire State building, that is an observation tower that serves more than one purpose...

And if your going to build one as depicted on that website, it looks like it would belong at the exhibition as opposed to downtown...
What website?
     
     
  #4631  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 10:30 PM
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Hello folks,
I just signed up, but I've been browsing this forum off and on for awhile now. My name's Rod Nickel and I see that a number of my stories (most recently about the Sky Tower!) have been posted here. Nice to see so much interest and informed discussion about development in the city. I look forward to joining the discussion as more projects take shape!
     
     
  #4632  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 10:38 PM
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I think the observation tower would be a very unique addition to the city and through proper planning won't become a desolate spindle in the skyline like the calgary tower. It would be interesting to see some sort of combo of the 4 proposed projects actually. You could have an observation tower at the proposed height with say the u of s innovation centre at the top with possibly another resteraunt. Along the bottom you could have the arts and culture centre which would blend nicely with the aboriginal museum. I think a better spot for the childrens museum would be where the feature building is going, this could really allow for some unique interpretive architecture!

Thanks for the comments regarding the letter, I plan to send it tonight or tomorrow!
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  #4633  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 1:40 AM
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Nothing overally major, but on the Saskatoon projected growth map they have now added in rosewood streets and labelled evergreen, as well as show stonbridge and willowgrove as almost complete, http://www.saskatoon.ca/org/city_planning/resources/maps/projected_growth.pdf
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  #4634  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 1:48 AM
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Interesting - I noticed a future extension of McKercher Drive over the CP Rail tracks into Arbor Creek. That would explain why that stretch of land has been left undeveloped... it's the road's future right-of-way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgc087 View Post
Nothing overally major, but on the Saskatoon projected growth map they have now added in rosewood streets and labelled evergreen, as well as show stonbridge and willowgrove as almost complete, http://www.saskatoon.ca/org/city_planning/resources/maps/projected_growth.pdf
     
     
  #4635  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 4:26 AM
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Interesting - I noticed a future extension of McKercher Drive over the CP Rail tracks into Arbor Creek. That would explain why that stretch of land has been left undeveloped... it's the road's future right-of-way.
That was first brought up back when McKercher overpass was built on College Drive. For some reason it was never developed.
     
     
  #4636  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 5:15 AM
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Originally Posted by S'toonGuy View Post
Hello folks,
I just signed up, but I've been browsing this forum off and on for awhile now. My name's Rod Nickel and I see that a number of my stories (most recently about the Sky Tower!) have been posted here. Nice to see so much interest and informed discussion about development in the city. I look forward to joining the discussion as more projects take shape!
Welcome to the forum!

Haha, we routinely post Star Phoenix articles (among others) related to urban development. Your coverage of urban development in Saskatoon is always a treat (surprises are nice...my jaw dropped when I saw the Sky Tower article posted on SP's homepage).

I'm glad you feel comfortable outing yourself on this forum, as it adds more legitimacy to our informal discussions, and helps to shape them as well.

So you've seen the proposals for the destination complex...how does the Sky Tower compare to the previous observation tower? I suppose Sky Tower is taller and thinner, anything else?

I think they should try to combine all of the proposals together, not sure how that would work though (space constraints?).

Previous destination complex proposal
     
     
  #4637  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 5:22 AM
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Originally Posted by S'toonGuy View Post
Hello folks,
I just signed up, but I've been browsing this forum off and on for awhile now. My name's Rod Nickel and I see that a number of my stories (most recently about the Sky Tower!) have been posted here. Nice to see so much interest and informed discussion about development in the city. I look forward to joining the discussion as more projects take shape!
Though you've just joined you might already be one of the top contributors on this thread thanks to all your stories posted here... welcome!
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  #4638  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 5:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SASKFTW View Post
Welcome to the forum!

Haha, we routinely post Star Phoenix articles (among others) related to urban development. Your coverage of urban development in Saskatoon is always a treat (surprises are nice...my jaw dropped when I saw the Sky Tower article posted on SP's homepage).

I'm glad you feel comfortable outing yourself on this forum, as it adds more legitimacy to our informal discussions, and helps to shape them as well.

So you've seen the proposals for the destination complex...how does the Sky Tower compare to the previous observation tower? I suppose Sky Tower is taller and thinner, anything else?

I think they should try to combine all of the proposals together, not sure how that would work though (space constraints?).

Previous destination complex proposal
Well first things first, thank god that hideous building was never approved! I agree that combining all projects would be the best solution, all would have immense contributions to the downtown and would really aid in reinforcing its development.
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  #4639  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 5:26 AM
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Though you've just joined you might already be one of the top contributors on this thread thanks to all your stories posted here... welcome!
So true, that's why my post count is as high as it is
     
     
  #4640  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 5:27 AM
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Originally Posted by midnightrambler View Post
Considering the CN tower only cost 63 million to build, mind you in 1975... we should be able to put something up that would be fairly reasonable in price and would look half decent.

I'm not really that excited about an observation tower though. I'd much rather see a building that height with an observation deck. It just doesn't make sense to construct something that only serves as observation. Look how useless the Calgary tower is today. Now the Empire State building, that is an observation tower that serves more than one purpose...

And if your going to build one as depicted on that website, it looks like it would belong at the exhibition as opposed to downtown...
Quote:
Originally Posted by socialisthorde View Post
What website?
Hey yeah, what website?

midnightrambler, to your comment on how useless the Calgary Tower is now compared to back in the day...I understand what your saying, but, that is largely due to its location in the downtown (e.g. not on the riverfront). Our tower would be along the river, which should prevent another building(s) from blocking it in the future and thus leaving it useless (partially useless). Ours could be an architectural showpiece for the skyline, just like the Bessborough and Spadina churches.

I still hope an observation tower might be proposed for the top of the Broadway Bridge (better views)...maybe we could have two, one at River Landing, and one for Broadway linked with a gondola system to transport people between the two towers, definitely strengthens the whole Cultural Crescent concept...just dreamin' aloud peeps

Last edited by Ruckus; Oct 23, 2008 at 5:42 AM.
     
     
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