Gore Park - Page 13

go_leafs_go02 · #**241** Posted **Oct 7, 2008, 4:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam

Unlike fastcars, I actually live in Hamilton and go downtown all the time. There are reasons why there are so many bums that ask for change and these social issues should not be ignored by government. The unemployment rate is pushing 7% - the highest its been in 3 years (since Harper took office)

And when Toronto was my regular haunt, I recall being asked for money a lot more than currently in Hamilton.

First of all. don't blame Harper. The US economy is suffering, and that's indirectly a reason why our unemployment has raised.

I really think they want to get rid of loiterers is due to the negative stigma hamilton has to most out-of-towners. Like it or not, the majority of people sneer at hamilton. They want to recreate a more positive image. a major reduction on creepy, homeless looking people is a good thing for the image. Toronto has just as many people, but the reputation of Toronto helps keep that problem to a low. Hamilton doesn't have that reputation.

drpgq · #**242** Posted **Oct 7, 2008, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam

Unlike fastcars, I actually live in Hamilton and go downtown all the time. There are reasons why there are so many bums that ask for change and these social issues should not be ignored by government. The unemployment rate is pushing 7% - the highest its been in 3 years (since Harper took office)

And when Toronto was my regular haunt, I recall being asked for money a lot more than currently in Hamilton.

Frankly Adam, what are your solutions? Just shovel money at these people? Open a bunch of community centers and they'll just leave Gore Park for free pop and chips? I live a few blocks from downtown, so you'll have to do better than your lame ass ad hominem attacks.

It is problematic for the city when an out of towner stays at the Crown Plaza and has to walk to the convention center past the Gore. Hopefully with the LRT and the passage of time, the forces of gentrification will make the drug dealers feel less and less comfortable and move on to somewhere else, instead of blighting the centre of our city and holding us back.

Millstone · #**243** Posted **Oct 8, 2008, 2:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam

Unlike fastcars, I actually live in Hamilton and go downtown all the time. There are reasons why there are so many bums that ask for change and these social issues should not be ignored by government. The unemployment rate is pushing 7% - the highest its been in 3 years (since Harper took office)

And when Toronto was my regular haunt, I recall being asked for money a lot more than currently in Hamilton.

What is your theory about why these people can't get a job?

DC83 · #**244** Posted **Oct 8, 2008, 3:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millstone

What is your theory about why these people can't get a job?

I don't mean to answer for you, Adam, but it's sheer laziness.

Most people who don't have jobs are unemployed b/c they don't want to be. There ARE jobs out there. And if there aren't full-time jobs, there are part time jobs, temp jobs, odd jobs, etc.

For the most part, it's the matter of choice. Wow... the Right-Winged Me is coming out! ...I'm scared. hahahaha

BrianE · #**245** Posted **Oct 8, 2008, 5:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC83

I don't mean to answer for you, Adam, but it's sheer laziness.

Most people who don't have jobs are unemployed b/c they don't want to be. There ARE jobs out there. And if there aren't full-time jobs, there are part time jobs, temp jobs, odd jobs, etc.

For the most part, it's the matter of choice. Wow... the Right-Winged Me is coming out! ...I'm scared. hahahaha

Oh come on, you can't believe that. What about the people who have serious mental health issues? There are a TON of people on the streets right now who would not be if they were taking the right medications. There are also a TON more who would be on the streets yelling at lamp posts if it werent for their daily meds.

I think the 'lazy' people are not the ones begging on the street. They're the ones who work the system, bounce from low paying job to welfare and back again, only working the absolute minimum amount so that their monthly welfare check doesn't decrease. These people are the real drag on our society, most of the folks in Gore Park have serious mental and substance abuse issues that nobody on this disscusion board can even begin to understand.

flar · #**246** Posted **Oct 8, 2008, 5:16 PM**

There are a lot of people who are unemployable in Hamilton (ask yourself if you would hire them), but also a lot of people who could be redeemed or who could have been employable. Fighting this problem starts with early childhood education and continues throughout life. It seems a lot of people in Hamilton have fallen through the cracks. In most cases you're fighting against the cycle of poverty and hopelessness.

DC83 · #**247** Posted **Oct 8, 2008, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianE

Oh come on, you can't believe that. What about the people who have serious mental health issues? There are a TON of people on the streets right now who would not be if they were taking the right medications. There are also a TON more who would be on the streets yelling at lamp posts if it werent for their daily meds.

Oh, I agree 100%! No doubt. What I'm saying is that the majority of the people I see in Gore Park aren't those mentally ill ones (they usually stay in their areas, primarily Stinson & St Clair), but rather the lazy ones. Most are youth, unfortunately!

The worst part is, they hang around in Gore Park all day when there are TWO Employment Centres w/in a 45 second walking distance from the Park. There are also countless Temp Agencies in the area and throughout the City.

So please don't take offense. Of course I understand there are people who CAN'T work... but the majority of them can, and wont.

Millstone · #**248** Posted **Oct 8, 2008, 6:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC83

I don't mean to answer for you, Adam, but it's sheer laziness.

Most people who don't have jobs are unemployed b/c they don't want to be. There ARE jobs out there. And if there aren't full-time jobs, there are part time jobs, temp jobs, odd jobs, etc.

For the most part, it's the matter of choice. Wow... the Right-Winged Me is coming out! ...I'm scared. hahahaha

Right, that's the correct answer, but I was looking for adam's answer.

DC83 · #**249** Posted **Oct 8, 2008, 7:55 PM**

^^ Wow, Snippy Magee... sorry.

adam · #**250** Posted **Oct 8, 2008, 8:10 PM**

Millstone, this was my first opportunity to log in today. Looks like I struck a nerve!

I am sorry that we are trying to lump everyone who is unemployed or below the poverty line into one big category by simply dismissing them as "lazy". Is 25% of the population of Hamilton really just simply lazy? Is it really that simple?

What about people with psychological disorders? What about single moms who can't get a babysitter because its more cost effective for them to collect welfare and stay at home? What about people who are in a vicious cycle and don't know how to break out? What about young adults who were raised in poverty and don't know any different?

go_leafs_go02 · #**251** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 12:13 AM**

So today, I had an opportunity to people watch in hamilton for 20 minutes at 5 PM in Gore Park, and man, what a sketchy, creepy bunch of people. Honestly. Everyone looked so miserable, and sad looking. It just struck me in a way today, where it made me want to get out of this city, like right away. I totally know why they want to get people out of Gore Park. What a bad advertisement for the city. I wish I had a camera just to take shots of random people, and by that, I mean random.

crhayes · #**252** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 2:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

So today, I had an opportunity to people watch in hamilton for 20 minutes at 5 PM in Gore Park, and man, what a sketchy, creepy bunch of people. Honestly. Everyone looked so miserable, and sad looking. It just struck me in a way today, where it made me want to get out of this city, like right away. I totally know why they want to get people out of Gore Park. What a bad advertisement for the city. I wish I had a camera just to take shots of random people, and by that, I mean random.

I have been in Gore Park on my to/from school at all times of the day, for the last year and a half...and trust me....the people there and at Jackson Square are ALWAYS sketchy. Once it gets dark, there is a group of like 10-20 'Punk' kids that chill out front of the Bingo hall and ask people for money. Skettttch.

adam · #**253** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 2:05 AM**

So what's the city doing about it? Too busy trying to save money on redoing city hall

Millstone · #**254** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 2:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

So today, I had an opportunity to people watch in hamilton for 20 minutes at 5 PM in Gore Park, and man, what a sketchy, creepy bunch of people. Honestly. Everyone looked so miserable, and sad looking. It just struck me in a way today, where it made me want to get out of this city, like right away. I totally know why they want to get people out of Gore Park. What a bad advertisement for the city. I wish I had a camera just to take shots of random people, and by that, I mean random.

THANK YOU

raisethehammer · #**255** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 2:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by crhayes

I have been in Gore Park on my to/from school at all times of the day, for the last year and a half...and trust me....the people there and at Jackson Square are ALWAYS sketchy. Once it gets dark, there is a group of like 10-20 'Punk' kids that chill out front of the Bingo hall and ask people for money. Skettttch.

ooh, sounds so scary. Lol. We should all move to New York...I mean, Montreal...I mean, Vancouver....oh forget it!! How about Oakville?? Maybe Dunville. Oh wait, I saw a homeless guy there once....bad idea. Sorry.

crhayes · #**256** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 2:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

ooh, sounds so scary. Lol. We should all move to New York...I mean, Montreal...I mean, Vancouver....oh forget it!! How about Oakville?? Maybe Dunville. Oh wait, I saw a homeless guy there once....bad idea. Sorry.

You may not be afraid to go down there, and neither am I. But put yourself in the position of a normal mother with children, or an elderly person down there at nighttime. Believe it or not there are many people that are turned off/frightened by the people in Gore Park, you can't always just think about yourself.

raisethehammer · #**257** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 2:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by crhayes

You may not be afraid to go down there, and neither am I. But put yourself in the position of a normal mother with children, or an elderly person down there at nighttime. Believe it or not there are many people that are turned off/frightened by the people in Gore Park, you can't always just think about yourself.

thanks bud. I'm a parent with 3 kids.
We take them down there all the time. They love the people and vibrancy.
My oldest daughter (5) loves downtown.
I've been in groups of people in every other city I've visited that had more 'crazies' than anything I've ever seen in Hamilton.
Thank God we're not Croakville or Borington. I'm surprised those cities don't have bylaws banning people with coloured hair or ripped pants or homeless guys.

SteelTown · #**258** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 3:09 AM**

You've been to Portland so look at Pioneer Courthouse Square as an example, it's next to a mall as well, Pioneer Place. Yet you see nothing like the slums there compared to Gore Park.

crhayes · #**259** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 3:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

thanks bud. I'm a parent with 3 kids.
We take them down there all the time. They love the people and vibrancy.
My oldest daughter (5) loves downtown.
I've been in groups of people in every other city I've visited that had more 'crazies' than anything I've ever seen in Hamilton.
Thank God we're not Croakville or Borington. I'm surprised those cities don't have bylaws banning people with coloured hair or ripped pants or homeless guys.

You don't get what I'm saying. I'm not advocating that everyone with children or every elderly person is afraid to go down there. I do know of people, such as my own grandparents, who are sketched out by the people that are down there. You can't sit there and say that EVERYONE in Hamilton is comfortable with the loiterers we have in Gore Park. The truth is that a lot of people aren't comfortable with them.

You can be naive and say that it's not a problem, and to many people it isn't. Or you can accept the truth and understand that for others it does pose a problem.

I myself am not saying it is a huge problem, but when I hear others saying it is I can see where they are coming from. I think Gore Park would be better off without the loiterers.

flar · #**260** Posted **Oct 17, 2008, 3:34 AM**

There is a very high concentration of ugly, weird and scary looking people downtown. It's one of the first things I noticed on my first visit to Hamilton. There may not be more here than other cities in absolute numbers, but they dominate the mix downtown and that has to change if downtown is to thrive. No one should be scared to go downtown and it doesn't stop me or my family, but most people find it unpleasant--that's the reality.