Rapid Transit - Page 35

raisethehammer · #**681** Posted **Oct 4, 2008, 1:24 PM**

according to Tom Jackson in todays paper...too much support, too quick.
He doesn't think people know what's going on.
Then get off your duff and go talk to them!

omro · #**682** Posted **Oct 4, 2008, 6:10 PM**

A little diversion.

What do canadians call their LRTs?

We British call them trams.

Would the LRT trains in Hamilton be trams, trolleys, streetcars, or something else? What's the correct term?

DC83 · #**683** Posted **Oct 4, 2008, 6:47 PM**

^^ Calgary & Edmonton both refer to them as 'The LRT' or 'Light Rail'.
ie: "Hey, let's take the LRT to Commonwealth Stadium for tonight's Esks game!"

Hamiltonians would most likely do the same, since that's what media has stuck to. Hamiltonians love the media.

I would like for it to be called 'The HSR' since we're bringing rail back to the streets!
"I'm just gonna jump on the HSR to Lancaster Memorial Waterfront Stadium for the TiCats game"

Montreal will call theirs Trams, most likely. Torontonians will probably still refer to their LRTs as 'Streetcars' still.

highwater · #**684** Posted **Oct 4, 2008, 6:51 PM**

I always loved TO's 'Red Rockets', or just 'The Rocket'.

DHLawrence · #**685** Posted **Oct 4, 2008, 6:56 PM**

Unless I'm referring to the streetcars in Toronto, I call them all trams because it's easier to say than either light rail or streetcar, and they don't exactly meet the definition of 'trolley.'

SteelTown · #**686** Posted **Oct 4, 2008, 7:53 PM**

People will likely just call it B-Line. "Take the B-Line to McMaster"

raisethehammer · #**687** Posted **Oct 4, 2008, 10:06 PM**

people will use 'train' or 'light rail' most likely.
unless we name it...in Portland it was called 'The Max'.
Everyone would just say "let's take the Max downtown" etc....

omro · #**688** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 2:18 PM**

Just curious, is there a consensus of belief that the Centre Mall should be connected up to Hamilton's LRT? Or that its worth/survival are not remotely tied together with the LRT?

raisethehammer · #**689** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 2:24 PM**

eventually that would be nice, but the mall is currently being redeveloped to accommodate single occupancy cars almost exclusively.
I'd love to see an LRT on Barton though. Or at least a modern streetcar.

markbarbera · #**690** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by omro

Just curious, is there a consensus of belief that the Centre Mall should be connected up to Hamilton's LRT? Or that its worth/survival are not remotely tied together with the LRT?

The Metrolinx plan touched on the possibility of a connection down the road, towards the end of the Metrolinx plan in 2025. They suggest a third LRT line that would run from Ancaster eatward along Mohawk Road to Upper Ottawa, then north down Upper Ottawa following the Kenilworth access to Kenilworth Avenue, continuing north to connect with the B-line then on to a northern terminus abutting the Centre Mall site.

TO clarify RTH's comment about the Centre Mall's redevelopment, I believe it would be fairer to say that the redeveloped site's accessibility remains identical to its previous incarnation, that being accesible primarily by automobile with the Barton Street HSR line providing accessibility from the southern edge of the development.

omro · #**691** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 4:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

The Metrolinx plan touched on the possibility of a connection down the road, towards the end of the Metrolinx plan in 2025. They suggest a third LRT line that would run from Ancaster eatward along Mohawk Road to Upper Ottawa, then north down Upper Ottawa following the Kenilworth access to Kenilworth Avenue, continuing north to connect with the B-line then on to a northern terminus abutting the Centre Mall site.

I remember seeing that depicted.

Is that a worthwhile line to have opposed to one that runs the length of Barton via the James Street station?

markbarbera · #**692** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 8:19 PM**

The thing with Barton Street is its width through the old city from James to Kenilworth doesn't really allow for a dedicated LRT line. It would have to be a shared route with autos. LRT isn't really worth much more than a traditional bus route if it doesn'e have right of way on dedicated lanes.

omro · #**693** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 8:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

The thing with Barton Street is its width through the old city from James to Kenilworth doesn't really allow for a dedicated LRT line. It would have to be a shared route with autos. LRT isn't really worth much more than a traditional bus route if it doesn'e have right of way on dedicated lanes.

So what was the original belt line? I understand that ran down Barton. Was it on tracks or electrical buses with overhead wires?

markbarbera · #**694** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 10:02 PM**

The beltline was a streetcar line, retired from service in 1951. It ran on rail among all other road traffic. After the rail was removed, it did continue as an electrified bus trolley system until they too were retired in 1992.

Streetcars and LRT are fundamentally different in design and function. If rail was returned to Barton Street it could not function as LRT but simply as regular transit service based on rail, or once again as electrified trolley buses on rubber tires.

Millstone · #**695** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 10:33 PM**

Also the median on Barton is now landscaped.

raisethehammer · #**696** Posted **Oct 5, 2008, 11:55 PM**

a return of the beltline would be awesome.
This time it could be done with a modern streetcar, like Portland's mixed-traffic streetcar.
HSR ridership really dropped off once they got rid of the streetcars and trollies.

markbarbera · #**697** Posted **Oct 6, 2008, 12:27 AM**

I am not sure what you mean, RTH. Yearly ridership levels consistently increased with the exception of the period following the 1998/99 strike.

raisethehammer · #**698** Posted **Oct 6, 2008, 1:20 AM**

I'm talking about when the removed all the overhead wires.
Ridership plummeted by almost 10 million per year.
Recent years it's begun to go back up, but nowhere near it's highest levels.

omro · #**699** Posted **Oct 6, 2008, 8:19 AM**

Nottingham's Trams and cars can exist on the same roads, as can Manchester's. I can't see why the LRT has to have a dedicated lane necessarily.

Having some form of LRT, Streetcar, etc on Barton would be a very symbolic gesture, it would show that the city wants to improve that area, it would give the people who live there something to be proud of and hopefully work to improve the area themselves, it would attract better quality people to live there, who would normally discount the area.

thistleclub · #**700** Posted **Oct 6, 2008, 11:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

people will use 'train' or 'light rail' most likely.
unless we name it...in Portland it was called 'The Max'.
Everyone would just say "let's take the Max downtown" etc....

I find that people generally go with the fewest syllables... "car" over "auto," for example, or "bus" over "HSR" (except in semi-formal talk, when directing newcomers, or cases where you want to make a branding distinction, "bus" is intra-urban and "GO" is inter-urban... Burlington gets the short end of the stick but whatever). Portland's handle is smart in that regard.