YEG - Edmonton Int Airport - Page 158

Jasper and one o nin · #**3141** Posted **Sep 30, 2008, 3:43 PM**

^that is why (if i am travelling in canada) I will do everything I can to avoid flying AC

dansk · #**3142** Posted **Sep 30, 2008, 5:31 PM**

Sounds like he was an idiot who showed up late, not the flight being full. This guy is a loud mouth and Metro should have never published the article stupid. Air Canada did nothing wrong.

Rocket252 · #**3143** Posted **Sep 30, 2008, 6:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

Usually someone will always miss a flight, if everyone shows up somehow, then you could have a problem. That is how you ensure your planes are full, especially when some of your customers have fully transferable tickets and can miss flights all the time, and do so, because they can and that is what they pay for when they buy a full fare economy or business class seat.

Also, on Air Canada, if you have high enough status you can show up and bump a coach passenger even if you didn't book a ticket.

On transborder like that, they might have closed the flight earlier and let a stand by passenger go. In that case, it is 100% smith's fault.

Is this a common practice with all airlines?

Coldrsx · #**3144** Posted **Sep 30, 2008, 6:44 PM**

^generally i would say yes. I have had it happen to me, both sides, on more than one occasion.

lubicon · #**3145** Posted **Sep 30, 2008, 6:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket252

Is this a common practice with all airlines?

Very common, with the exception of Westjet.

DAVEinEDMONTON · #**3146** Posted **Sep 30, 2008, 7:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^generally i would say yes. I have had it happen to me, both sides, on more than one occasion.

Air Canada can be bad for bumping passengers when the flights are overbooked. I think they do this especially on routes where they have lots of daily flights because they know they can bump people to business class which usually has space and they know that the last flights of the day are usually not full and they can simply bump people all day long until all the flights end up full.

Word to the wise...always take advantage of the on-line boarding pass service ASAP so that you guarantee your spot when you reach the airport especially if you have an early afternoon flight.

dansk · #**3147** Posted **Sep 30, 2008, 9:10 PM**

All airlines have that problem. Again this guy is a loud mouth and he got to the desk after the flight was closed. His fault.

Jasper and one o nin · #**3148** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 3:50 PM**

How can you say AC did nothing wrong? They have x amount of seats on the plane. People pay money to be on that flight, because it departs and arrives at a specific time. AC knows how many seats they have, and the know how many passengers to book. If they book x number plus 3, then they booked too many. The are knowingly selling more tickets that they have seats for. That's irresponsible.
As I said before, I will not fly with air canada if I don't have to because WJ doesn't have a ticket class system.

lubicon · #**3149** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

How can you say AC did nothing wrong? They have x amount of seats on the plane. People pay money to be on that flight, because it departs and arrives at a specific time. AC knows how many seats they have, and the know how many passengers to book. If they book x number plus 3, then they booked too many. The are knowingly selling more tickets that they have seats for. That's irresponsible.
As I said before, I will not fly with air canada if I don't have to because WJ doesn't have a ticket class system.

It is not irresponsible, it is good business. As a few others have stated, Air Canada, and most other airlines, routinely oversell because they know that there is historically a number of no shows. They track it by flight, time etc so they have a pretty good handle on every route they fly. Most of the time this works out and the flight leaves as full as possible (which is good), but every now and then more people show up than they expected. When that happens they will bump some people up to business class to accomodate as many people as possible. If they are still short on seats they will ask for volunteers to stay behind and they will be given an incentive to do so. If they are still short on space they can involuntarily deny boarding and must pay even more compensation, but this is a rare occurence.

Looking at what this dude says, he claims to have arrived >1 hour before departure but was waiting in line to check in and missed the 60 minute cutoff as a result and the flight was closed. He should either have arrived earlier, looked at his watch and let someone know his time problem, or checked in online prior to coming to the airport. It was his fault he missed the flight, not AC's.

eemy · #**3150** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 4:23 PM**

As others have said, it is a relatively common practice for airlines to overbook flights. That said, it doesn't seem clear to me that AC actually overbooked this flight, it sounds like he simply checked in too late.

I've never really understood the gentle treatment people seem to give Westjet. They aren't always the cheapest, they don't always provide great service, they don't really have a better network out of YEG, and yet somehow WS can do no wrong. If Kevin Smith doesn't like AC, perhaps he would like to fly from LAX through Calgary on Westjet next time.

MalcolmTucker · #**3151** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 4:27 PM**

^ First off, the thing that started this off was a closed flight, so none of this talk really applies to it, but nonetheless I will 'bite'.

There are a number of different reasons why it is good to be oversold, and policies that are put in place that Westjet does not have.

For example, if you show up late (ie: you missed your flight) to a Westjet flight, you have to buy a completely new ticket. On Westjet, you don't pay for transporting yourself, you pay for that seat, and when the seat flys away your out of luck. Buying a same day ticket is pretty expensive most of the time.

On Air Canada, if you show up late you can move flights (depending on your ticket class) for a minimal fee or no fee. The flight being oversold ensures Air Canada that they will not loose money on you by putting you on a different flight. You did not create an empty unsellable seat on one of their planes by missing a flight.

Remember that in almost all circumstances, no one will notice or be affected by the flight being oversold. If the amount oversold is perfect, they don't even have to offer a deal.

In circumstances where they do need to make an offer for a passenger to give up a seat, they allow pure economics to take over. They offer either airline credit, class upgrade, or miles. Usually they have too many people ready to take the offer (I have read that they are trying to design a system so that airlines can actually figure out the marginal benefit they have to offer to get just the right number of people to opt off the flight, where before the flight, on automated check in you would tell them what your 'price' would be, then the airline could offer much less (possibly) while not concerning all passengers that the flight was overbooked)

Oh, and one of the only ways for Westjet to increase their profitability today would be to take out some rows, and create a premium economy, with extra leg room (six extra inches of pitch), laptop electrical outlets, free booze and a hot preselected meal. I know lots of people who would pay an extra $200 or $400 for that (you can't price a higher class service too low, or else you would have coach passengers opt up, and you can't price too high, or you have first passengers opting down. some economists have devoted their entire career on how to sell two class (or three) transportation services ).

Westjet will also be starting their own customer loyalty plan when their agreement expires with airmiles. I wouldn't be surprised if 'extra-loyal' customers soon had their own check in counters, where they could check in extra late, automatic admission into the lounge in the Westjet wing, and access to a seperate security screening line.

Jasper and one o nin · #**3152** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 4:58 PM**

Okay its common practice, I understand. I suppose from the airlines perspective, it is good business. I certainly don't understand the business of airlines as well as some of you. I do understand customer service, and if you have to bump someone so they do not get to fly on that flight- then that person is going to consider their choice next time they book a flight. Either an airline where there is a chance I could be bumped, or an airline where there is no chance. AC does not bump to business class. At least with the tickets I buy. I have been bumped off a flight, and when I finally arrived - my collegue informed me there were seats in business class.
I'm probably wrong, but if you have a 100 seats - you should only be able to sell 100 tickets. If you want to maximize your profits, and not piss anyone off - then increase the price buy the percentage you would anticipate overbooking a flight. For the few hundred extra dollars an airline would make in the few instances they overbook - I would take it on the chin and not piss anyone off.
I have never been bumped from a hotel.

rapid_business · #**3153** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 6:54 PM**

/\ Nope, hotels do it too. I have a friend who manages a hotel in Edmonton and said they would overbook all the time as they have a % who don't show. When they were full and refused someone to overbooking, they gave them a free hotel at a different place, plus taxi both ways. It's maximizing profit, and it's smart to do. Plain and simple.

Jasper and one o nin · #**3154** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 7:08 PM**

ok, Im just saying, I'VE never been bumped at a hotel

. After I said that, I thought probably hotels would have a similar policy.

dansk · #**3155** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 8:57 PM**

I've been bumped at:
Hotel's
Airlines and Car Rentals.

But once again the issue is that he....MISSED THE GATE the plane was closed. Thus he really wasn't bumped.

ExcaliburKid · #**3156** Posted **Oct 1, 2008, 9:01 PM**

I think his biggest issue was "I'm famous, how dare you bump me!"

Jasper and one o nin · #**3157** Posted **Oct 2, 2008, 9:03 PM**

Ive been bumped from all you can eat buffet restaurants

Jasper and one o nin · #**3158** Posted **Oct 2, 2008, 9:05 PM**

Effective Jan 1. AC will offer non-stop from Ft Mac to Vancouver. Its not a big deal, but all, or most, those passengers currently go through YEG

yegyyz · #**3159** Posted **Oct 3, 2008, 3:20 PM**

I usually volunteer to get bumped off an air canada flight, if i'm not in a rush... usually comes with a 200 cad travel voucher

YYCguys · #**3160** Posted **Oct 4, 2008, 4:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

...Oh, and one of the only ways for Westjet to increase their profitability today would be to take out some rows, and create a premium economy, with extra leg room (six extra inches of pitch), laptop electrical outlets, free booze and a hot preselected meal...

There are no ovens (or refrigerators, for those that are wondering) on Westjet aircraft, so I'm not sure how that could be handled.