LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 3.0

[Quixote]

Costs for Federal Courthouse in Downtown L.A. Soar to $1.1 Billion

The price tag for the planned landmark building has tripled, according to an audit that suggests considering alternatives.

By Cara Mia DiMassa, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 13, 2008

Costs for a much-touted federal courthouse in downtown Los Angeles -- which would have been the largest in the nation -- have tripled to $1.1 billion, according to an audit that said the grand plans might need to be scaled back dramatically.

The audit, released this month by the General Accounting Office, raised questions about the elaborate courthouse federal judges want built -- a landmark building that L.A. officials hoped would be part of the revitalization of the tired civic center area.

The courthouse would rise at Broadway and 1st Street -- on a corner that until recently housed a long-vacant state building. The building was demolished last year amid hopes that the project would finally move forward.

But the audit said that the current costs are far too expensive and that other alternatives must be considered. Right now, the federal government has set aside about $366 million for the project -- only a third of what's needed.

[DJM19]

blah! i love the released renderings of the courthouse. I hope they dont change the plan and get rid of the sweeping glass wall.

[edluva]

Is everyone overlooking the fact that they want to put LED signs on the glass towers? I think that's a HUGE aesthetic mistake. Putting signs all over the blank walls of the convention center is a great idea, but on the glass towers and the white tubing? That's just tacky.

well this is LA, not London, NY, or Chicago. LA has never been very classy nor sophisticated. what were we expecting? something nice?

[Quixote]

^ Colemonkee is talking about Concerto, the design of which is being handled by Chicago-based DeStefano + Partners -- one of the top firms in Chicago.

LED signs on glass towers does sound tacky, but DeStefano + Partners' work is always tasteful.

[colemonkee]

Actually, I'm talking about the convention center, not Concerto. To quote the article:

"AEG wants to hang a 75-by-66-foot sign and a 56-by-50-foot sign on the center's signature features -- the two soaring towers of glass panels and white metal tubing that face South Figueroa Street."

These will be solid signs on glass towers, not LED's worked into a glass so that they remain invisible during the day - which is what Concerto is proposing. I think signs on those towers are an aesthetic mistake, but then again, we haven't seen renderings, so I could change my mind.

And edluva, yes, I think we should expect something nice. Or at least an improvement on what's already there, not a detraction. With the convention center, that really shouldn't be that difficult.

[JDRCRASH]

We need a wide flavor of signs, both LED and just plain (though L.A. Live already has enough plain signs on Nokia), as well as in different forms and shapes.

What we need is creativity:


From Flickr by Simbolism

[JDRCRASH]

And BTW, whats this I hear about Planet hollywood being cursed?

[edluva]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

And edluva, yes, I think we should expect something nice. Or at least an improvement on what's already there, not a detraction. With the convention center, that really shouldn't be that difficult.

actually, with LA, i have learned over the years to expect — architecture, even if a pritzker prize winner is behind it, until the building is complete. remember, LA is consistently where the best architects do their shittiest work.

[BigDan35]

Originally Posted by edluva

actually, with LA, i have learned over the years to expect — architecture, even if a pritzker prize winner is behind it, until the building is complete. remember, LA is consistently where the best architects do their shittiest work.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

[Just-In-Cali]

Originally Posted by edluva

actually, with LA, i have learned over the years to expect — architecture, even if a pritzker prize winner is behind it, until the building is complete. remember, LA is consistently where the best architects do their shittiest work.

Hmm...bringing up NY, London and Chicago again eh? They have threads for those.

I find it odd that no matter how many tacky neon signs go up in NY, London, Tokyo or whatever, they are regarded as classy and well designed. You put an identical one here, and suddenly the "experts" on class tear it apart.
Can we let them FINISH a project before we start complaining?

I think too much neon of any kind looks bad...especially in an area where there isnt much of it around anyway. LA Live and the CC only need some minor changes to really bring out what could be a very modern and nice design.

LA has never been very classy nor sophisticated

U could leave...

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by edluva

Is everyone overlooking the fact that they want to put LED signs on the glass towers? I think that's a HUGE aesthetic mistake. Putting signs all over the blank walls of the convention center is a great idea, but on the glass towers and the white tubing? That's just tacky.

well this is LA, not London, NY, or Chicago. LA has never been very classy nor sophisticated. what were we expecting? something nice?

are you suggesting that times square is classy???

i can't think of anything tackier than a 6-story Cup Noodles.

Soup + Beer . . . way to go NYC - you're the classiest city in America!!

source: flicker lickyoats

[DowntownCharlieBrown]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

are you suggesting that times square is classy???

i can't think of anything tackier than a 6-story Cup Noodles.


source: flicker lickyoats

Yes, but remember, that giant cup of noodles actually has real steam coming out of the top of it.

I'm sure LA Live won't have anything like that.

We can't have anything nice!

[LosAngelesBeauty]

It's really not a matter of whether LA is classy or not. It's about LA becoming a "real city" or not. Once you become a "real city" (which means mass transit used by normal to wealthy people to get around), the need for parking is left out of the equation and buildings will actually start to address the needs of pedestrians NATURALLY (not superficially like today). Although it is well appreciated that LA does try to address pedestrian needs by placing storefronts facing the street, but it is all SUPERFICIAL because the actual true entrance that people use are behind, in the back, where the parking lot usually is.

edluva, is pretty easy to read. He wants LA to have an extensive mass transit system (mostly grade-separated rail), that finally quells the fears of NIMBYs and allows development to occur based on a different paradigm that other world cities already follow, such as: Tokyo, New York, London, Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc.

edluva is always negative because MOST of LA residents haven't broken out of their suburban mindsets (which Fulton would describe as the "cocoon citizenship" in the Reluctant Metropolis). They are hell bent on maintaining the status quo and resisting the change need to upgrade LA to a functioning city. It's frustrating to deal with when the collective mindset of so many in this city are so backward that it seems almost insurmountable. You basically "give up."

IF LA eventually builds an extensive subway system and it starts to function very similarly to other pedestrian-oriented cities, the term "classy" just goes along with the territory. NY may have a 6 story tall Cup O Noodle, but it's an entire vibe of the city, the culture that pervades the day to day activities of the city that creates the "class."

I hope that makes it more clear where I think he's coming from.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

And BTW, whats this I hear about Planet hollywood being cursed?

Breif history as to not rerail the thread: There have been 4 hotels on the Planet Hollywood site: Tally Ho, King's Crown, Aladdin, and New Aladdin. None of which were sucessful. But the New Aladdin changed into Planet Hollywood and all is right with the world.

And nothing says classy as A Cup of Noodles, beer, and Kodak film. I get what ed was trying to say but it came out awfully. Yes awfully. I'm taller than you so I can get away with using abused english. ed, I'd like to say that you have good intentions but whenever you post, it's like a total killjoy. Like if we are all at a rave at the Coliseum with lights and sounds and sternum cracking bass shaking our asses and twirling our glowsticks, when all of a sudden, you come on the loud speaker with, 'Beuller? Beuller?' You don't speak for anyone and you don't know everyone's tastes. You can dislike something but don't insult people because you don't like it. Besides, most of us are gay. We have better taste than you by default.

My take is this: LA is extremely new to the urban world. New York, Chicago, London, Paris etc. have had hundreds of years to do the whole 'urban thang.' LA is still young and dumb. People want to live downtown but don't want to have a building pop up to block their view of the ocean that's 20 miles away and can only be seen on a extremely clear day. LA folk are used to McMansions and strip malls and the 405. Instead of insulting them for not knowing how DTLA works, educate them. Alot of people are curious about downtown. Espically now that it's a hot topic and Lauren Conrad goes to FIDM. Give it time. Rome, NYC, Chicago, Paris and LA were not built in a day.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty

edluva is always negative because

...Beverly Hills is too much like a slick Mission Viejo. Or is it cuz Mission Viejo is too much like a slick Beverly Hills? Or is it cuz Inglewood is too much like Beverly Hills? Or Beverly Hills is too much like torrance?

I'm so confused.

BTW, I was in DT today & the overriding impression I had of it, again, is that it needs alot more ppl to really be zooming. Too many of everyone throughout SoCa have run out to outlying hoods, & so alot of streets & stores in DT are way too quiet, certainly on the weekend.

The 2 main restaurants on the groundfloor of the Higgins looked awfully quiet around the early afternoon hours, & quite a few restaurants later in the day (around dinnertime) in little Tokyo didn't look too busy either. I also noticed some major storefronts in that hood are sitting vacant.

By contrast, you can go to hoods like SaMo, drop by the 3rd St Promenade, & find almost every restaurant packed, with every table out front full of ppl. But that's not surprising cuz the population of ppl with "disposable income" in that part of town is way greater than the number of similar type ppl in or around DT.

There will be more balance between those 2 parts of LA when DT has alot more of the housing that ppl in cities like NYC (or even Vancouver) take for granted.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty

It's really not a matter of whether LA is classy or not. It's about LA becoming a "real city" or not. Once you become a "real city" (which means mass transit used by normal to wealthy people to get around), the need for parking is left out of the equation and buildings will actually start to address the needs of pedestrians NATURALLY (not superficially like today). Although it is well appreciated that LA does try to address pedestrian needs by placing storefronts facing the street, but it is all SUPERFICIAL because the actual true entrance that people use are behind, in the back, where the parking lot usually is.

edluva, is pretty easy to read. He wants LA to have an extensive mass transit system (mostly grade-separated rail), that finally quells the fears of NIMBYs and allows development to occur based on a different paradigm that other world cities already follow, such as: Tokyo, New York, London, Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc.

edluva is always negative because MOST of LA residents haven't broken out of their suburban mindsets (which Fulton would describe as the "cocoon citizenship" in the Reluctant Metropolis). They are hell bent on maintaining the status quo and resisting the change need to upgrade LA to a functioning city. It's frustrating to deal with when the collective mindset of so many in this city are so backward that it seems almost insurmountable. You basically "give up."

IF LA eventually builds an extensive subway system and it starts to function very similarly to other pedestrian-oriented cities, the term "classy" just goes along with the territory. NY may have a 6 story tall Cup O Noodle, but it's an entire vibe of the city, the culture that pervades the day to day activities of the city that creates the "class."

I hope that makes it more clear where I think he's coming from.

yes, that's exactly what i was aiming for with my post - an explanation of where edluva is coming from and the true source of nyc's classiness. thanks.

you take the fun out of posting sometimes.

[Just-In-Cali]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty

It's really not a matter of whether LA is classy or not. It's about LA becoming a "real city" or not. Once you become a "real city" (which means mass transit used by normal to wealthy people to get around), the need for parking is left out of the equation and buildings will actually start to address the needs of pedestrians NATURALLY (not superficially like today).

edluva, is pretty easy to read. He wants LA to have an extensive mass transit system (mostly grade-separated rail), that finally quells the fears of NIMBYs and allows development to occur based on a different paradigm that other world cities already follow, such as: Tokyo, New York, London, Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc.

edluva is always negative because MOST of LA residents haven't broken out of their suburban mindsets (which Fulton would describe as the "cocoon citizenship" in the Reluctant Metropolis). They are hell bent on maintaining the status quo and resisting the change need to upgrade LA to a functioning city. It's frustrating to deal with when the collective mindset of so many in this city are so backward that it seems almost insurmountable. You basically "give up."

I hope that makes it more clear where I think he's coming from.

This all may be so, but the problem is that the criteria for a "real city" seems too narrow. Yes...Los Angeles needs much improvement in transportation and the mentality that citizens only want LA to be a major city when its conveiniant for them...but to classify it as a classless tacky mess simply because it doesnt fit some mold that a single individual or individuals have is ridiculous. And you must admit...a person who can only contribute negative and insulting comments about a city or its citizens probably doesnt have much nice to say about anything or anyone...and that is their problem...not LA's.

And sorry...a steaming cup of soup equals class? Again...if that were in LA, it would be called "Gimmiky and tasteless".
NY tends to get off the hook a little to much simply because our culture here tells us to worship any trash that flows out of that city.

Hopefully when the market picks back up...which it will in the next 2 years, we will see more integrated projects start to crop up. This boom is in its infancy, so there are bound to be hiccups. Even the holy grail of cities, NY has made many goofs...can anyone say, Pan Am?

[ladowntowner]

While not quite as tacky as a 6-story cup-o-noodles, and I'm certainly not looking forward to these signs plastered over the few defining elements of the Convention Center, I don't expect the LED's to be any more tacky than this corner in Piccadilly Circus, London (London - the "benchmark of class," apparently) which I snapped this spring.



Also from London - this thing sure looks like it's not "boring" and has loads of "pizazz" and "creativity" (of the tacky sort, IMHO), but since it's not in L.A., snobs worldwide probably bandy it about as the new cutting edge of architectural excellence:

[WonderlandPark]

I see you hate Lloyds.

By the way, it isn't just architectural snobs, but historians, scholars, architects and Londoners themselves that think that is one of the most important buildings built last half-century on the planet.

I was built 20+ years ago, too.

[JDRCRASH]

Here's a thought: why have there been few advertisements on the billboards at L.A. Live or Hanover that are about companies or organizations that weren't sponsors or huge corporate investors of those developments?

For instance: (BTW, this is my own photo.......from a couple of months ago)



Do you see any variety of ads?....because all I see are things about 717 Olympic......
Anybody who thinks self-promotion ads are all thats needed is not thinking straight.



And Edluva....what is with you? People like me or even Citywatch can be negative sometimes, but you just go overboard by saying that Angelenos are retarted; they only think retarted. Have you ever lived in NYC?