Winnipeg | Transit | Rapid Transit

[OttawaSteve]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

That set: was there a specific reason for the buses backing up that day, or a regular occurrence?

In the specific photos you're referring to (from May 30th, 2008), the cause was a broken-down truck on one of the main roads leading over to Quebec ...nowhere near the Transitway itself. The ensuing gridlock on cross-streets ended up blocking the Transitway.

That was a particularly bad day, but this sort of thing happens all the time here (although usually on a smaller scale). In fact, during this morning's rush hour, westbound Transitway service had to detour due to a fire (pics here)

Because the Transitway is operating so close to capacity, even the slightest delay (say, an intersection being blocked for one or two light cycles) creates a major ripple effect.

The most common culprits are:

- gridlock on streets that intersect with the Transitway. Even construction/accidents across the river in Gatineau will cause traffic to back up into downtown Ottawa, affecting the north/south streets which intersect with the east-west Transitway.
- broken down buses
- accidents
- security incidents, emergencies, etc. on board buses
- buses loading/unloading wheelchairs
- virtually any amount of snow (as mentioned already)

Originally Posted by Spocket

What you didn't mention right there was that those aren't pictures of the busway itself but pictures of the downtown portion or near it where the buses enter the regular street system.

Yes, but the delays experienced downtown will inevitably affect the entire system (often for hours afterward)... the point being that the system is only as strong as its weakest link.

Cheers,
Steve (Ottawa)

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by thegreattait

The topic has fallen off the radar recently, but the bad decision to run a transmission line down the West side of Lake Winnipeg remains. The projected cost difference is an estimate $400 million more then running the line down the east side of Lake Winnipeg.

What does this have to do with Transit in Winnipeg? Well surely the if province of Manitoba has the budget to waste $400 million, then they will have $400 million to redirect to LRT funding in Winnipeg, once they smarten up and make a better decision.

If canceling their previous decision and instead decide to run the line down the east side, additional funds could be redirected to build both phases of the rapid transit route at one time and make that route Light Rail, instead of a bus corridor.

Smart thinking, two good ideas for the price of one.

Just a thought. Any comments?

You do know where that money comes from right? Don't go giving the NDP any ideas. Granted I wouldn't care personally about the cost as long as we got LRT.

[thegreattait]

Originally Posted by Reed Solomon

You do know where that money comes from right? Don't go giving the NDP any ideas. Granted I wouldn't care personally about the cost as long as we got LRT.

Its tax payers money, its money signed from power agreements with the US. All I'm saying is instead of wasting money frivolously for no reason on going down the west side, they should smarten up go down the east and re-invest that money into LRT.

Its kind of like stealing for Hydro,which I normally hate when the NDP does it. However, you could say its securing a long term hydro client since LRT uses electricity.

[thegreattait]

Some interesting question raised in the Winnipeg Free Press

Transit plan questioned

Re: $138 M for busway's first phase (winnipegfreepress.com), Sept. 8.

"The corridor is intended to stimulate the construction of high-rise apartments or condos around the busway stations and use property taxes from these new developments to help pay back the cost of the project."

Is there evidence elsewhere that bus-rail transit has stimulated significant growth for payback in property taxes?

Secondly, where has conversion from BRT to light-rail transit occurred without enormous double disruption to the community, unless track is initially laid in the busway?

Thirdly, at what extra cost and time will it take to convert to LRT and will real estate or other taxes cover that conversion cost?

George Barsky

Gaithersburg, Maryland

[1ajs]

aww look at dynamic calgary..... lol

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

aww look at dynamic calgary..... lol

What are you referring to?

[thegreattait]

I think he is referring to my post about the comment in the WFP about TIFF development supporting LRT costs. Calgary has a lot of Transit Oriented Development (TOD) that was built around their LRT.

Did they implement TIFF around their LRT? I never heard about it, but I could be wrong

I think it can help, but I don't know if it could ever fund it 100%. Nor do I think it should, but I do think TIFF developments with LRT would be greater then BRT.

[wags_in_the_peg]

gas hit $1.47 today, bye bye suburbs?

[sledhead35]

id hate to see a suburban gost town, but i could see those house prices going down because they are obviously becoming less desirable. hopefully they are filled up as fast as people move into the core.

[sledhead35]

wait a minute;$1.47? OUCH!

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

gas hit $1.47 today, bye bye suburbs?

No, the surburbs will live on.

Living in the 'burbs is really about picking your neighbours and getting to live with like minded people usually of a similiar ethnic background and social standing.

Gas could cost $3.00 / Litre and people would still want to live out in the middle of nowhere.

Besides, even as far back as Ancient Rome the well to do had country villas, and later in Industrial Britain you had Garden Cities where people could get away from the dirt and crime of London, Birmingham or Glasgow.


The idea of escaping the city is as old as western civilization itself.

It's a desire that is unlikely to change, even in light of rising fuel costs.

[The Jabroni]

More of the reason why you should take public transit instead.

Bike as well!! It's more fun that way knowing that you put so much effort into getting to your destination.

[Kinguni]

I live in the suburbs and I like it, although I do wish we were closer in at times, but I don't need a cottage, I have my backyard. I use public transit to go to work and back. Two of my kids walk to school, my eldest uses transit to go the U of M. Would be nice if she could get from Westdale to the University faster with better connections though. More expensive fuel might convince my wife to use the bus as well, but it could add an hour or more to her travel time every day.

They say that with a BRT in place one could get from Westdale to downtown in under half an hour. I'm working an evening shift right now and have to leave over an hour before I start. Due to the nature of my work I'd probably have to leave that early if I drove to work since I'd have to take a bus downtown from the barn on Osborne anyways.

Let's get this BRT done, but faster. In 6 years we might have a BRT line to Bison Drive. Big deal. Let's get it done to Charleswood, Transcona, St. Vital and North Kildonan in that time.

[spiritedenergy]

wow six years to build a road and put buses on it... in six years time the dollar may have already collapsed and with it the whole north american economy...

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

wow six years to build a road and put buses on it... in six years time the dollar may have already collapsed and with it the whole north american economy...

And you'll have probably moved back to your homeland by then

[Greco Roman]

It's a real shame Winnipeg can't support an LRT system right from the start like Hamilton does.


Public Consultation: Overwhelming Support for LRT

Public Works staff just published a public consultation update (PDF link) on phase two of the Rapid Transit Feasibility Study that reports back to the public works committee on the public outreach program the rapid transit team undertook during the summer.

In the update just published, staff report that they heard from more than 1,600 people, of whom 94% support rapid transit. That support breaks down as follows:

66% support Light Rail Transit;
8% support Bus Rapid Transit; and
20% support either mode.

In addition, 91% are in favour of implementing additional rapid transit routes once the recommended routes are established.

Respondents cited several reasons for supporting light rail. 71% mentioned the environmental impact, 67% mentioned potential to attract new ridership, 58% mentioned potential economic benefit, and 51% mentioned sustainability.

Other reasons mentioned include operating cost, life cycle analysis, vehicle cost, and construction cost.

Support was tied to funding from higher levels of government. 90% of respondents would support rapid transit if Metrolinx funded 75% of the capital costs; 81% would support it if Metrolinx funded 66%; and 65% sould support it even if Metrolinx funded only 50%.

The report also included letters of endorsement from several community and business organizations, including:

Realtors Association of Hamilton-Burlington: LRT endorsement
Clean Air Hamilton: LRT endorsement
Downtown BIA: LRT endorsement
International Village BIA: LRT endorsement
Durand Neighbourhood Association: LRT endorsement
Ainslie Wood/Westdale Community Association: LRT endorsement
Hamilton Chamber of Commerce: LRT endorsement
McMaster Students Union: LRT endorsement
Hamilton Partners for Healthy Weights: LRT endorsement
McMaster University: general Rapid Transit endorsement

The report.............
http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyre...15PW08043b.pdf

[Greco Roman]

This is a rendering for an LRT system in Hamilton. I love this pic. This kind of system would be a great addtion for Winnipeg.

[Andy6]

I think a busway system makes a lot more sense. Trying to get rapid transit to move around the CBD on a dedicated route is going to be very difficult and hugely expensive. A BRT system works much better by building dedicated busways free of cross-streets where it is economical to do so (in the areas outside the core, as in the current proposal) and then allowing the buses to come off the busway and use the existing downtown streets in whatever way is most efficient at a given moment.

LRT would service a single inflexible route with a requirement for many people to transfer onto or off of buses at each end. It would require throwing every cent the city ever had for transportation into what is essentially a replacement for the Pembina bus route, and even then I doubt it would be affordable.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I think a busway system makes a lot more sense. Trying to get rapid transit to move around the CBD on a dedicated route is going to be very difficult and hugely expensive. A BRT system works much better by building dedicated busways free of cross-streets where it is economical to do so (in the areas outside the core, as in the current proposal) and then allowing the buses to come off the busway and use the existing downtown streets in whatever way is most efficient at a given moment.

LRT would service a single inflexible route with a requirement for many people to transfer onto or off of buses at each end. It would require throwing every cent the city ever had for transportation into what is essentially a replacement for the Pembina bus route, and even then I doubt it would be affordable.

Well then, tell me something. If BRT is so great and desirable, why didn't other cities in Canada (Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal, etc.) implement BRT as their main mode of rapid transit instead of any rail-based system, and why are cities like Hamilton and Saskatoon planning for LRT instead of a BRT system?

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I think a busway system makes a lot more sense. Trying to get rapid transit to move around the CBD on a dedicated route is going to be very difficult and hugely expensive. A BRT system works much better by building dedicated busways free of cross-streets where it is economical to do so (in the areas outside the core, as in the current proposal) and then allowing the buses to come off the busway and use the existing downtown streets in whatever way is most efficient at a given moment.

Well whoop-de-doo. The same sort of efficiencies can be had by having LRT, which doesn't require $1.50 a litre gasoline and uses electricity which is abundant here in Manitoba. If the LRT corridor stops at a major transit intersection point for downtown, then whats the difference? Rapid Transit is bottlenecked by downtown, therefore having the buses go downtown will cause gridlock anyways. Dedicated Busways, Dedicated LRT.. it works out to the same thing, except of course Winnipeg wasn't built by the Bus industry..

LRT would service a single inflexible route with a requirement for many people to transfer onto or off of buses at each end. It would require throwing every cent the city ever had for transportation into what is essentially a replacement for the Pembina bus route, and even then I doubt it would be affordable.

people need to transfer downtown anyways. If the dedicated LRT line went to the forks and didn't have anything blocking it, then it intersects just fine with the current transit system.

I don't believe the prices thrown around for LRT in Winnipeg. We have Railyards and Rail lines criss crossing the city already. They're certainly profitable enough. The topography of the city implies that it would LRT prices would lean towards the lower end of the price spectrum. It might be more expensive to start up than BRT but it's more efficient in the end, better for the image of the city than a boring old bus, uses as fuel one of the primary exports of manitoba.

Your argument for BRT instead of LRT makes no sense to me.