Winnipeg | Transit | Rapid Transit

[harls]

The corridor is intended to stimulate the construction of high-rise apartments or condos around the busway stations and use property taxes from these new developments to help pay back the cost of the project.

That would be sweet. Ottawa has some high-rise development along it's transitway, most notably:



source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/steve-brandon/440186947/



source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/2285051638/

Maybe you could see something like this pop up on Pembina eventually?

[Greco Roman]

So we are being told that this BRT thing is going to eventually lead to an LRT system, right? And the reason we aren't pursuing LRT at the moment is due to cost, right?

Here is what I don't get: We are building BRT now in pursuit of a future LRT line. Well, the costs for building an LRT system are only going to go up with time. So how is building a dedicated busway now, and then continuing on to add tracks for an LRT system in the future when the costs are probably going to be 10x higher, cost-efficient? If the issue really was cost, then why wouldn't you just build the LRT line now (once), instead of working on the same line twice? This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

I think there is more to this saga then Shamboat and Donter are letting on. I think that the whole "we'll do LRT in the future" is a big crock. I really feel that there are no legitimate plans to pursue LRT in Winnipeg. They are just feeding the public some cockamainy story to keep them off their backs for a while.

It's sad leadership at it's best.

[wayward_prince]

why does a city that has not grown in years and who's current streets are in horrid shape require money spent on 'high speed' transit? is it mainly because other cities that actually need it have got it so Winnipeg feels it must fit in? The fact is Winnipeg is stagnant and its need for this is absurd. More federal transfer dollars down the drain.

[thegreattait]

How does a person from Vancouver comment on a subject he knows nothing about.

The continued growth of the U of M, the new Waverly West developments and a possible Stadium at the end of a new rapid transit are all excellent reasons that support rapid transit in Winnipeg. In addition to Pembina being one of the busiest major routes in Winnipeg that is already clogged by too much traffic.

Also to help stimulate our growing city some Transit Oriented Development would be nice.

How many millions are going to be invested in the Olympics,,,, Its a good thing, just like rapid transit is for Winnipeg. Vancouver hopes to have lasting infrastructure left over when the games are gone, most of that will be from Federal money. So what's wrong with Winnipeg wanting some lasting infrastructure that will make this city a better place.

[wayward_prince]

I know your city well. I just think you need to fix what you have now before 'expanding' anything...oh and the need for that stadium is really hilarious.

[thegreattait]

Originally Posted by wayward_prince

why does a city that has not grown in years and who's current streets are in horrid shape require money spent on 'high speed' transit? is it mainly because other cities that actually need it have got it so Winnipeg feels it must fit in? The fact is Winnipeg is stagnant and its need for this is absurd. More federal transfer dollars down the drain.

Sorry judging by the parts in bold you don't know the city well, we hadn't grown in years, but winnipeg is now growing. We have a stable growth and the need for this is quite sound and prudent. While I do believe your description of our growth has relevance to Winnipeg's past I don't believe that it reflects its current state.

Infact spending money on rapid transit will help relieve infrustructure problems on Pembina, as the amount of traffic it currently experiences has a negative impact on the road's quality.

As a recent graduate from the Univerity of Manitoba, I saw first hand on a daily basis the number of students that took transit. From my observation the #60 is the busiest bus route in the city, even with service intervals at peak times of 2min. Obviously a higher capacity solution that doesn't get bogged down with the traffic on pebina is required.

[drew]

Originally Posted by wayward_prince

why does a city that has not grown in years and who's current streets are in horrid shape require money spent on 'high speed' transit? is it mainly because other cities that actually need it have got it so Winnipeg feels it must fit in? The fact is Winnipeg is stagnant and its need for this is absurd. More federal transfer dollars down the drain.

I love the "horrid streets equal not spending money on public transit" argument.

I assume you understand how streets become "horrid" in the first place. It's called wear and tear.

The beauty about transit, and especially dedicated rapid transit corridors is that they help to remove one major contribution to road surface wear and tear. Big, heavy buses that hammer the curbs, bust up the surface and generally wreak havoc.

Rapid transit will help get some of these buses off the road, thereby reducing in the long term the maintenance required on the roads. Transit alone helps by reducing the amount of cars on the road, again also helping in the long term.

So really, having a decent public transportation system in place should be a top priority for people who value smooth roads above all else.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by wayward_prince

why does a city that has not grown in years and who's current streets are in horrid shape require money spent on 'high speed' transit? is it mainly because other cities that actually need it have got it so Winnipeg feels it must fit in? The fact is Winnipeg is stagnant and its need for this is absurd. More federal transfer dollars down the drain.

Well you obviously don't know this city as well as you think you do.
The city has in fact seen population gains over the past six or seven years and there's no reason to think the rate will decrease back to zero.
On top of that, the fastest growing area of Winnipeg is the southwest which is now being developed to accomodate another 50 thousand people.
The U of M is currently being considered as a potential stadium site and , although I have no idea what makes this hilarious, we definitely need a new stadium.

Lastly, if it's absurd for Winnipeg to have any form of rapid transit then I guess it's just as absurd for any other city you care to name. I didn't realize that sustainable cities were an absurd idea but okay, I guess you're the expert on that today. Since you're the expert today, you should get them to tear down the Skytrain and replace it with a freeway. Or better yet, why even bother replacing it with anything ? That just costs money after all and there's no advantage to any sort of transportation corridor along that same ROW....is there ?

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Well you obviously don't know this city as well as you think you do.
The city has in fact seen population gains over the past six or seven years and there's no reason to think the rate will decrease back to zero.
On top of that, the fastest growing area of Winnipeg is the southwest which is now being developed to accomodate another 50 thousand people.
The U of M is currently being considered as a potential stadium site and , although I have no idea what makes this hilarious, we definitely need a new stadium.

Lastly, if it's absurd for Winnipeg to have any form of rapid transit then I guess it's just as absurd for any other city you care to name. I didn't realize that sustainable cities were an absurd idea but okay, I guess you're the expert on that today. Since you're the expert today, you should get them to tear down the Skytrain and replace it with a freeway. Or better yet, why even bother replacing it with anything ? That just costs money after all and there's no advantage to any sort of transportation corridor along that same ROW....is there ?

Let's stop right there. There's no need to feed more to this troll.

It's about damn time that something is official about rapid transit around this city. Once this is in place, there will be less "wear and tear" on our streets.

[MichaelM]

Originally Posted by wayward_prince

why does a city that has not grown in years and who's current streets are in horrid shape require money spent on 'high speed' transit? is it mainly because other cities that actually need it have got it so Winnipeg feels it must fit in? The fact is Winnipeg is stagnant and its need for this is absurd. More federal transfer dollars down the drain.

I agree 100%

Fix the roads and back lanes first.

How about the 100 year old sewers as well.

Rapid transit = more crappy built roads to be repaired in 18 months.

Why can't they build roads in Manitoba like they do in the USA?

That last longer than a year or two.

Build a real rapid transit "On Rails"..................

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by wayward_prince

why does a city that has not grown in years and who's current streets are in horrid shape require money spent on 'high speed' transit? is it mainly because other cities that actually need it have got it so Winnipeg feels it must fit in? The fact is Winnipeg is stagnant and its need for this is absurd. More federal transfer dollars down the drain.

Wonderful. Now we have another Markus41, Waterlooson, and what's his face from Regina on our hands.

Go away please. Oh wait, you will be going away soon once the "big one" swallows up the entire lower mainland. Sucks to be you

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

It's about damn time that something is official about rapid transit around this city. Once this is in place, there will be less "wear and tear" on our streets.

Yes, and No. Yes, there will be less wear and tear on the Pembina Hwy., but there will be now wear and tear on the Southern Freeway ahem ... Southwest Transit Corridor.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Wonderful. Now we have another Markus41, Waterlooson, and what's his face from Regina on our hands.

Go away please. Oh wait, you will be going away soon once the "big one" swallows up the entire lower mainland. Sucks to be you

thats uncalled for

[Only The Lonely..]

Where's the bad post button again?

I thought it to be generally against SSP policy to be a dick.

[DowntownWpg]

One thing I'm a bit unclear on, perhaps one of you could help me out...

The dedicated lane for BRT, is the (very) long term plan that the BRT lane could be converted into an LRT and put down rail right on it? Or, if we ever do get LRT to the UofM, would the first stretch be BRT and then you transfer onto a train?

Perhaps the BRT lane would not be wide enough... I assume that LRT needs two tracks so you can have trains moving both to and from downtown at the same time...?

Thanks

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

So we are being told that this BRT thing is going to eventually lead to an LRT system, right? And the reason we aren't pursuing LRT at the moment is due to cost, right?

Here is what I don't get: We are building BRT now in pursuit of a future LRT line. Well, the costs for building an LRT system are only going to go up with time. So how is building a dedicated busway now, and then continuing on to add tracks for an LRT system in the future when the costs are probably going to be 10x higher, cost-efficient? If the issue really was cost, then why wouldn't you just build the LRT line now (once), instead of working on the same line twice? This makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

That argument would mean that the city should build everything it could ever possibly need right now. The reason it doesn't is that it can't afford to. The BRT makes some sense, at least, although it is very expensive. It is probably virtually as good as an LRT from the passenger's point of view, and offers huge cost advantages and, as the map seems to show, the advantage of being able to merge in traffic from other routes as it gets closer to downtown, vastly improving rush-hour express bus times on several different routes (which wouldn't be possible if this were an LRT route). If it is a success, it might mean that you would eventually start to see the density along the route that could justify conversion to LRT, but I am sceptical that it would ever be necessary to do so. It would be much better to invest similar amounts in the future in other similar corridors than blow everything, and then some, on a single gold-plated LRT line to the U of M.

This is definitely the right approach and at last there seems to be a believable cost figure associated with it, not the unrealistically low numbers that were being bandied about in the Glen Murray days.

I think there is more to this saga then Shamboat and Donter are letting on. I think that the whole "we'll do LRT in the future" is a big crock. I really feel that there are no legitimate plans to pursue LRT in Winnipeg. They are just feeding the public some cockamainy story to keep them off their backs for a while.

LRT is very expensive and there is just no way that the expense could be justified. At least they're laying the foundations, but LRT is decades off, at best. In a city with the infrastructure needs of Winnipeg, anything more than this on one transit line would be irresponsible, in my opinion.

[sledhead35]

i was beginning to feel like i was being too optimistic when reading "lrt or nothing" comments, but andy6 put logic to my opinion. i agree 100% sir.

if we are being "led on" to false hopes of lrt and never see it, well then i guess the need wont be great enough anyway. better this scenerio than spending too much money mantaining an lrt system and not needing it. wow, wouldnt we feel like genuises then!

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Where's the bad post button again?

I thought it to be generally against SSP policy to be a dick.

Yeah, but if you cross reference with Team America: World Police with Batman and The Joker, clearly someone has to fill in being the dick, while the other... well you get the idea.

BACK ON TOPIC:

In relative terms jimj... I know that there has to be a sacrifice somewhere.

[trueviking]

i dont really understand why the terminus is the forks....who goes to the forks by transit?...the only justification for rapid transit is to serve commuters...nobody commutes to the forks.....do we not have any planners at all...the termination point has to be the graham avanue transit mall, where people can feed to busses across the city....are the tens of thousands of commuters supposed to go from jubilee to the forks and then walk to graham or wherever in downtown they work?

at 130m for a line from jubilee to the forks, you can see why LRT is a pipe dream....that is a big chunk of change for such a small line....im not sure exactly who will use it for the first stage at least...there isnt exactly a huge population base around jubilee.

anyways...its a start.

people who think we should fill potholes before doing anything for the future of the city, kill me....

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by wayward_prince

I know your city well. I just think you need to fix what you have now before 'expanding' anything...oh and the need for that stadium is really hilarious.

google 3 things for me...

1. winnipeg's population growth.

2. the effects of rapid transit on commuter traffic and road maintenance.

3. federal money given to vancouver for a 12 day party in 2010.