Centre Mall -> The Centre on Barton

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by BCTed

adam was being sarcastic.

I guess senior citizens who go to the Centre in winter or on poor weather days for some mall walking will no longer have such an option.

They are building a food court building so there's a place they can hang out at.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

They are building a food court building so there's a place they can hang out at.

I was talking more about the exercise aspect that MsMe had mentioned.

But to the point about having a place in which to hang out, malls do serve as community centres of a sort. Power centres, even those with food courts, have a much more disconnected feel and do not serve that function anywhere near as well in my opinion.

[SteelTown]

My grandma joins with her posse to walk up and down Limeridge Mall. One time I caught her posse eating at Cinnabon jeez. lol

[MsMe]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I guess senior citizens who go to the Centre in winter or on poor weather days for some mall walking will no longer have such an option.

I wouldn't doubt the older people who have trouble walking especially in icy winter conditions will be going to Eastgate to do their shopping now to avoid walking in these kinds of situations. And I wouldn't blame them if I was in their position.

[fastcarsfreedom]

SteelTown, she'll be safe here as long as she doesn't go near Tim Hortons.

I personally would've liked to have seen Redcliffe try to work within the existing context of the Centre--in much the same way they've been investing in Eastgate. Nonetheless, issues which have been repeated too many times to count here have conspired against rehab of the existing mall--and clearly the option Redcliffe chose was to completely redevelop the property for better or worse. I certainly don't find the prospect of the development "exciting"--it is what it is. To say the City is allowing the East/North End to be "crapped on" I think is hyperbole...allowing this to slowly devolve into a greyfield would've been truly destructive to the area. This project, alas, seems poised to breathe some new life into the broader district and to bring employment to an area of the city where it will be welcome.

I still find the idea of nostalgia for a suburban-oriented mall among new urbanists to be difficult to understand. The Centre was the first, large-scale "car-oriented" development in the entire area--the first shift in focus away from downtown as a retail hub.

[MsMe]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I guess senior citizens who go to the Centre in winter or on poor weather days for some mall walking will no longer have such an option.

I wouldn't doubt the older people who have trouble walking especially in icy winter conditions will be going to Eastgate to do their shopping now to avoid walking in these kinds of situations. And I wouldn't blame them if I was in their position.

[fastcarsfreedom]

SteelTown, she'll be safe here as long as she doesn't go near Tim Hortons.

I personally would've liked to have seen Redcliffe try to work within the existing context of the Centre--in much the same way they've been investing in Eastgate. Nonetheless, issues which have been repeated too many times to count here have conspired against rehab of the existing mall--and clearly the option Redcliffe chose was to completely redevelop the property for better or worse. I certainly don't find the prospect of the development "exciting"--it is what it is. To say the City is allowing the East/North End to be "crapped on" I think is hyperbole...allowing this to slowly devolve into a greyfield would've been truly destructive to the area. This project, alas, seems poised to breathe some new life into the broader district and to bring employment to an area of the city where it will be welcome.

I still find the idea of nostalgia for a suburban-oriented mall among new urbanists to be difficult to understand. The Centre was the first, large-scale "car-oriented" development in the entire area--the first shift in focus away from downtown as a retail hub.

[MsMe]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I guess senior citizens who go to the Centre in winter or on poor weather days for some mall walking will no longer have such an option.

I wouldn't doubt the older people who have trouble walking especially in icy winter conditions will be going to Eastgate to do their shopping now to avoid walking in these kinds of situations. And I wouldn't blame them if I was in their position. Wonder how many lawsuits they will have from falls in time.

[MsMe]

I talked to one lady who worked in one of the food court restaurants said the food court building won't be open for about another year.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

To say the City is allowing the East/North End to be "crapped on" I think is hyperbole...

And bringing flooded east end basements, which are entirely unrelated, into the discussion is just plain silly.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by BCTed

And bringing flooded east end basements, which are entirely unrelated, into the discussion is just plain silly.

no it isn't. It further cements my point that this part of town is ignored by city hall.
Try pulling off a project like this in the SW?? Heck, the city is fighting a big boxer at the Innovation Park, not rolling out the welcome mat.
Try having SW or Westdale residents baling our their basements every time it rains for years and see how long you last on council.
The east end gets screwed by city hall.
This project is one more example. Local residents, many of whom walk and use transit are bascially being told to screw off and get out of the way so all the important people who drive cars and use Red Hill can invade their neighbourhood and take away their meeting place.

I get a kick out of people who live nowhere near this area trying to speak on behalf of local residents and share their opinion of the centre mall.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I get a kick out of people who live nowhere near this area trying to speak on behalf of local residents and share their opinion of the centre mall.

A) I don't think that anyone here is speaking on the behalf of anyone but one's own self.

B) I think that everyone should be allowed to share their opinions on any subject on the board, however valid or invalid you may perceive them to be.

[MsMe]

Sorry for the double post. My computer froze up on me.

[adam]

Originally Posted by BCTed

And bringing flooded east end basements, which are entirely unrelated, into the discussion is just plain silly.

Originally Posted by BCTed

... B) I think that everyone should be allowed to share their opinions on any subject on the board, however valid or invalid you may perceive them to be.

DUDE, you just contradicted yourself here BIG TIME.

[raisethehammer]

...that's par for the course.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I get a kick out of people who live nowhere near this area trying to speak on behalf of local residents and share their opinion of the centre mall.

Would you get off this. You're basically saying all the idiots live outside Hamilton. Guess what, these days it seems they're smarter.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by adam

DUDE, you just contradicted yourself here BIG TIME.

No. BCTed gave his opinion that the other guy's opinion sucked, something BCTed was promoting in your second quote.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by Millstone

Would you get off this. You're basically saying all the idiots live outside Hamilton. Guess what, these days it seems they're smarter.

not sure where the term 'idiots' fits in, but people who live in big box suburban areas or out in the middle of nowhere don't understand the urban environment in Barton/Ottawa area.
It's like Kathy Drewitt trying to run the downtown BIA... it doesn't work.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Quote
I get a kick out of people who live nowhere near this area trying to speak on behalf of local residents and share their opinion of the centre mall

I have no idea if this was directed at me--but if it was, it's disappointing. Firstly, I don't think I, or anyone else here attempted to speak on behalf of anyone who lives near the Centre. In fact, the residents of that neighborhood spoke for themselves when they started taking their retail dollars elsewhere--the Centre has been in decline for years because the dollars are going outside the immediate area.

The Innovation Park example is weak at best--that involves zoning and land-use issues which are not present at the Centre site--which is merely a redevelopment of an existing retail site. Moreover, if the residnts of the neighborhood are really as distraught as they're made out to be by this project, I would expect them to have mobilized by now--if areas like Westdale are to mentioned, it's important to note that the citizens are active and engaged there--that's what makes the difference, not geography or some undefined "importance" factor. What about the MPM redevelopment--are the residents of the Mountain being "screwed" too?

The project, as I see it, will keep those living in that area of the city shopping closer to home. If you're concerned that "important" people with cars are going to come flooding into the east end to go to the new Centre, I think your fears are misplaced--this isn't a 'regional shopping centre' type project that is going to draw people in from far and wide--it's aimed squarely at folks living in the eastern half of the lower city.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by Millstone

No. BCTed gave his opinion that the other guy's opinion sucked, something BCTed was promoting in your second quote.

Exactly. I did not say that he had no place putting forth his thoughts.