Ironstone Condos | HT ?? | 16 FLRS | U/C

[thistleclub]

At the risk of returning to a tangent, here's a possibly relevant op-ed piece from Next American City: "Diversity and the changing face of suburbia."

[coalminecanary]

I'm just saying, you brought up enforcement equality in terms of increasing enforcement for a certain group of users - namely cyclists, scooters, pedestrians. Now you say that there's not even enough manpower to enforce drivers. Statistically, most injuries on the roads involve motor vehicles. So, I am sorry if you find it belittling, but if you are calling for increased enforcement of the users least likely to cause injury, and no change for the most likely, then it's not a stretch for me to think that safety is not your true number one concern.

To say that basic compliance is high among drivers would be, I'd say, an exaggeration. If you exclude the most common offenses, then your statement is true. But that's not a fair assessment. Spend one minute on any highway and you'll find that basic compliance is high among very few drivers, and low among most.

If I am to understand your last point, you are saying that pedestrians and cyclists who break the law and cause accidents pose a huge threat to themselves. I agree. But to single them out for increased enforcement is akin to making skydiving illegal because it is dangerous to the user. Or alcohol. Or tylenol. I am a driver, and a cyclist, and a pedestrian-almost daily-and no matter which mode I am in, I resent laws whose only purpose is to protect me from myself. Meanwhile, laws that protect others from me (and me from others) are written for the common good. I know you are not trying to write laws specifically to save cyclists from themselves, but to call for increased enforcement of cyclists and then to say that increased enforcement for drivers is beyond the reach of our resources is coming pretty close.

Please don't think that I am trying to place cyclists above the law. What I am fighting against is maintaining the status quo of drivers actually BEING above the law, while increasing enforcement for other road users. I am all for fairness - but let's start at the top, shall we?

[adam]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

I am keenly aware of selective enforcement--perhaps more intimately than your realize. I can assure you that basic principles as far as enforcement of bicycles go is 100% discretion -- as in, enforcement is next to nil. In reality the resources don't exist at the police level, or within the provincial offences system, to handle more enforcement than is currently ongoing.

For certain there are terrible motor vehicle operators on the road -- and just as they give all driver's a bad name there is an equal percentage of cyclists who ride as they please and inevitably hide behind their "right" to do so. Basic compliance is fairly high among all drivers, however I made no implication that all driver's are law-abiding saints. If several of you drew the same conclusions about my statement it might well be attributed to group-think, or a tendancy to categorize my posts as combative--I have no idea--in fact, your misinterpretation of my statements is your concern. The boldface quote was in fact a keying error - I had intended to italicize it, and selected the wrong icon.

I find your accusations that my concerns are not safety-related to be belittling--I don't believe I ever stated that cyclists or pedestrians cause accidents--but I have experience seeing the result of these accidents--and they are rarely positive for the cyclist...regardless of who's ultimately at fault.

To use his own words......It amazes me how quick someone just went on the defensive

[markbarbera]

[coalminecanary]

maybe we should just change the thread title :p

[Jon Dalton]

Not sure how this tangent got started but the closest I've ever been to getting creamed by a vehicle was just up the road from Ironstone condos. In a bike lane.

[Jon Dalton]

Convenient highway access!

Mind you, once you get onto the highway you're screwed

[adam]

Mmm.. the traffic noise must be soothing ... just like ocean waves

[chris k]

Originally Posted by adam

Mmm.. the traffic noise must be soothing ... just like ocean waves

sadly you can hear it downtown too
the constant hush of tires but downtown they also honk

[adam]

Sorry to get technical, but I don't think its the tires, its the engines. I've been next to an electric car that's moving and its a heck of a lot quieter!

[chris k]

Originally Posted by adam

Sorry to get technical, but I don't think its the tires, its the engines. I've been next to an electric car that's moving and its a heck of a lot quieter!

maybe downtown but from the suburban point of view i think its the tires becuase of the high speeds. If you live near a highway like this project you will hear the tires and not so much the engines but i agree when you are diretly beside a car the engine produces majority of the sound.

[raisethehammer]

I sat on College St eating lunch this summer....could barely hear the cars going by. It's definitely engine noise.
I LOVE it when there is a huge event at Copps...I can always tell because suddenly the street is really quiet...all the cars are going 20-30km.

[adam]

Regardless of the primary source of the noise, Cars zooming by Ironstone Condos at 120km/h are a lot louder than cars downtown at 40-60km/h

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by adam

Regardless of the primary source of the noise, Cars zooming by Ironstone Condos at 120km/h are a lot louder than cars downtown at 40-60km/h

Unless the speed cap at Upper Middle and Appleby is 120km/h, the Ironstone site is 2km from the 403 and 3km from the 407 -- overlooking topography and building elevation, about as close as James North or Westdale.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by adam

Regardless of the primary source of the noise, Cars zooming by Ironstone Condos at 120km/h are a lot louder than cars downtown at 40-60km/h

I think you're both right! It's the sound of worn or winter tires mixed with those damn air/engine breaks!!

I lived in Upper Stoney Creek near Felker's Falls near the edge of the escarpment, beautiful beatiful setting, but sitting in the backyard I can hear the air/engine breaks of transports stopping at Mud & Paramount. It's quite the distance, yet still loud enough to notice.

But Hey, that's why I like living downtown, right?

edit: If my mom's place is approx 1km north of Mud & Paramount and I can still hear the transports, chances are those living in Ironstone will also hear the QEW noise(s). But I'm sure they'll be blasting their A/Cs so they wont be able to hear anything besides the sound of their growing carbon footprint! Good thing the Bldg is 'Green' AAHAHA

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by adam

Regardless of the primary source of the noise, Cars zooming by Ironstone Condos at 120km/h are a lot louder than cars downtown at 40-60km/h

The building itself is on Appleby Line so the cars are only going 80 km/h

[adam]

Some people seem to be suggesting that city traffic noise is as loud as highway noise. I disagree wholeheartedly... Growing up more than 2km away from the 403, we could still hear the roar of cars. Now I live less than 1km away from both Main St and King St and yet I cannot hear that level of noise from that direction. This is just strictly observation.

[chris k]

Originally Posted by adam

Some people seem to be suggesting that city traffic noise is as loud as highway noise. I disagree wholeheartedly... Growing up more than 2km away from the 403, we could still hear the roar of cars. Now I live less than 1km away from both Main St and King St and yet I cannot hear that level of noise from that direction. This is just strictly observation.

that was my point originally, that the constant hush of tires at HIGH speeds is loud and annoying. No matter what retaining walls you have that absorb the noise at sides of highways

[Jon Dalton]

And, it appears to be under construction. Workers were putting up the perimeter fence when I rode by yesterday.

Yeah, I still work in this area (Good god, what have I done with my life?), and yes it still 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. There have been some recent attempts at intensifying, such as an actual 3 storey (!!!) building in the parking lot of the neighbouring strip mall housing a coffee shop (that's actually okay) and medical offices. It makes the area look a teensy bit more urban, and essentially halves the distance I have to ride to get an almost decent cup of coffee and maybe lunch. Across the street from that strip plaza (also across Appleby Line from this condo construction) is a brand new, other strip mall now under construction. I have no idea how awful / not awful it will be, as there aren't any renderings posted.

Just posting this for those who might care (I don't). Trying to be useful here.

[mattgrande]

Burlington's been doing a lot of that semi-intensification (Plains Road, for example). It's going to be a much bigger city in a few years, I'm sure.