Mobile Development Thread

[10101000]

Just to give you an idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bel_Air_Mall

Here is another to read

http://www.jllretail.com/NR/rdonlyres/C4.../The_Changing_Face_of_Regional_Malls.pdf

[MobileLSUboy2005]

another interesting shot i found

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=70803&ie=U...142.56619351149985,,0,-5.573090906355247

[Port_of_Bama]

Originally Posted by (Tim)

Just to give you an idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bel_Air_Mall

Here is another to read

http://www.jllretail.com/NR/rdonlyres/C4.../The_Changing_Face_of_Regional_Malls.pdf

I didn`t know that Bel-air was the states largest mall at one time, hopefully we can reclaim that one day soon with this Lasalle project.

[phoenixboi08]

YES. Hopefully!

[10101000]

Orange Beach yacht broker says it is true. Have you ever wanted to wake up in your condo in the middle of nowhere but crystal blue water and look down and see marlin jumping off your front porch? Plans are said to be permited to build the first Gulf City 50 miles from Dauphin Island and 40 miles from Perdido Pass at a secret place off the 100 fathom curve where it bends like an “elbow”. The condo on an oil rig city will have an indoor marina for yachts to moor safe at sea. Will Jules Verne be cooking breakfast?
http://www.coastalalabama.tv/gulf-city-said-to-be-built-off-orange-beach-alabama

[Bogue]

Had a big write up... decided to change it and keep up w/ the conversation, instead.

If all of these tenants are leaving BAM for something in the north of the county what happens to the existing facility? In Hattiesburg there used to be what was often referred to as "the ghetto mall" that was left after the new one was built out west. The part of town in which it was located was a fairly nice area and didn't really go down after the tenants left, but it ultimately converted into mostly office space and got chopped up in a similar fashion to what happened at Springdale. I don't think they even refer to it as a mall anymore.

This discussion on competition coming into the market I assume is a reference to the new north mall, so will that force down rental rates at BAM... If so, wouldn't that make it more likely that new retailers would be likely to run lower-end businesses? If the nicer stores all run north and BAM drops rates doesn't that suck some of the low-end retailers out of the struggling shopping centers just west of I-65?

I'm w/ the guy who wants to see some better food options back at Bell-Air. That would be cool. If they replaced Belk w/ someone better I'd be happy about that. Hate that store. I don't know how if they would be building a larger facility than the Galleria in Hoover. That's a monster of a facility, though I suppose it's something that "could" happen.


The condo on an oil rig thing would make me very nervous. Would be very cool, though. How would they make it where they could put a marina inside? I thought the lower floors of the rig were quite a bit higher than the surface of the water. Would ships have to be raised by pulleys or something to get them into the marina? How would they handle rough seas?

[NitekKetin]

By 'north Mobile mall' are we talking about the retail component of the Racetrack project or an entirely different 95 acre development at the intersection of I-65 and Industrial Pkwy? I think Mobile County and South Alabama overall can support both and a reinvigorated, fashion-oriented Bel Air Mall.

[Bogue]

perhaps so, but I was referring to the folks at BAM making comments about "stepping up" to deal w/ the new "competition"... made me think they were going to drop rates (which attracts lower-end retailers who've generally been locating in those shopping centers west of I-65).

and by north Mobile mall I was referring to whatever they were alluding to happening in Saraland that Bell-Air felt it had to compete against.

[buckett5425]

If I were a Mobilian, I would be very scared of getting a new mall. Number one, you cant have your cake an eat it too. People want development downtown, but a new suburban mall is going to slow that development downtown for probably 10 or more years. Also, It seems unlikely Mobile could support two "mid scale" malls. The Mall at Cortana, at 1.6 million square feet has become Baton Rouge's "ghetto mall" after the smaller, but newer Mall of Louisiana was built. While the Mall at Cortana is the "ghetto mall" its list of tenants is still higher and better then most malls in the region, including Bell Air. What makes it the "ghetto mall" is that the demographics of that area of town have changed. If a new mall is built in Mobile though, there could be hope for Bell Air. The oldest mall in Baton Rouge, Bon Marche, from the 1950's was recently turned into a Tech Business Park, and has served as a catalyst to redevelop the Florida Blvd corridor, Baton Rouge's old shopping district, very similar to Airport Boulevard.

Simply put, I wouldn't want a new mall in my town. Its the epitome of suburban development and sprawl, and this is an URBAN development thread, right? Screw the mall, and get those local Mobilian Developers more interested into downtown and then invest in more public transportation in getting people downtown to the shops, resturant, and hopefully condos downtown Mobile will most likely one day have.

[pkp]

Originally Posted by buckett5425

If I were a Mobilian, I would be very scared of getting a new mall. Number one, you cant have your cake an eat it too. People want development downtown, but a new suburban mall is going to slow that development downtown for probably 10 or more years. Also, It seems unlikely Mobile could support two "mid scale" malls. The Mall at Cortana, at 1.6 million square feet has become Baton Rouge's "ghetto mall" after the smaller, but newer Mall of Louisiana was built. While the Mall at Cortana is the "ghetto mall" its list of tenants is still higher and better then most malls in the region, including Bell Air. What makes it the "ghetto mall" is that the demographics of that area of town have changed. If a new mall is built in Mobile though, there could be hope for Bell Air. The oldest mall in Baton Rouge, Bon Marche, from the 1950's was recently turned into a Tech Business Park, and has served as a catalyst to redevelop the Florida Blvd corridor, Baton Rouge's old shopping district, very similar to Airport Boulevard.

Simply put, I wouldn't want a new mall in my town. Its the epitome of suburban development and sprawl, and this is an URBAN development thread, right? Screw the mall, and get those local Mobilian Developers more interested into downtown and then invest in more public transportation in getting people downtown to the shops, resturant, and hopefully condos downtown Mobile will most likely one day have.

Thanks for the comments. Unfortunately, many of the Mobile posters won't understand what you are talking about - the major consensus here is to have as much as possible - no matter what or where. Everyone's goal on this forum should be to have as much good development as possible in the city center. Let's work on upscale and boutiques downtown - why in God's name would anyone want another chain retail joint in Saraland?

What I would love - a Sak's downtown along with some upper end chains and some locally owned boutiques. As far as high end department stores go, most of the Mobile population is reduced to driving to NOLA or Birmingham. I was working in NOLA a couple of weeks ago and while shopping in the shoe department at Saks, there were 5 other people from Mobile shopping for shoes ($700 Christian's) - actually, there were only about 8 people in the whole department. The salesman said a huge chunk of his business comes from Mobile. There is plenty of demand in Mobile - build it and they will come (downtown that is

Of course, any post I make that bashes suburban development will no doubt lead to some 15 year old raking me across the coals, but hey, I like urban living!

My company (and many of our clients) are investing in dt BR - lots going on ( I stay at the Hilton dt every couple of months). Good bar and some good places to go nearby. Keep it up.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Look at what happened in Huntsville with Parkway Place. It's located downtown. There's no reason why a mall couldn't locate in downtown Mobile. A smaller scale one, something like the Harbert Plaza in Birmingham.

[MobileLSUboy2005]

Originally Posted by buckett5425

its list of tenants is still higher and better then most malls in the region, including Bell Air.

well, Cortana (aka, ghetto mall - seriously people, its what everyone in BR knows it by...haha) might have 3 or 4 more stores than Bel Air, but the stores they do have are a lot smaller and more outdated than the ones at Bel Air. But at least ghetto mall still has a dang food court! gah! I kind of think that another mall in Saraland would cause Bel Air to decline because there is already a mall over the bay, and if you put one north of Mobile, then you really are just A) supporting sprawl, B) going to take away a large number of shoppers who won't need to drive all the way into fun Airport Blvd traffic, to go to an American Eagle or Abercrombie or Penny's...
If a new mall does happen, then my hope is that Bel Air can revamp itself into a much more upscale mall instead of letting itself turn into Ghetto Mall de Mobile!

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by Alabadrock

There's no reason why a mall couldn't locate in downtown Mobile. A smaller scale one, something like the Harbert Plaza in Birmingham.

This article has been discussed recently in the BHM thread:

http://www.al.com/business/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/business/1217578615140700.xml&coll=2

Suffice to say... Belk is SO MUCH of a lesser company than the one they replaced!

[MobileLSUboy2005]

Originally Posted by OCA REP

Suffice to say... Belk is SO MUCH of a lesser company than the one they replaced!

no doubt! I think everyone misses Parisian's

[DruidCity]

What I would love - a Saks downtown along with some upper end chains and some locally owned boutiques. As far as high end department stores go, most of the Mobile population is reduced to driving to NOLA or Birmingham.

I hope this doesn't come across as "bashing" Mobile, but I don't think Mobile is big enough or wealthy enough to support upper-end retail with its local market alone. I think you'd have to bring in a lot of tourists, whether it is downtown or anywhere else in metro Mobile. About the only somewhat small markets I can think of that have stores like Saks are places like Charleston, Sarasota, and Naples that attract significant numbers of wealthy tourists.
(I'll add that little San Marcos has big outlet stores for both Saks and Neiman Marcus )
Of course, mention the possibility of expanding tourism to many Alabamians, and the response you'll get is that "tourism creates only minimum-wage jobs."

[MobileLSUboy2005]

that is partly true, but we could support smaller stores like Lucky Brand Jeans, Guess, Urban Outfitters, Anthropolgie, Apple, Sephora, Levi, and a few other what id call mid-to-upscale stores, if they were in a more upscale location (aka not the current bel air mall...) I doubt we could support a Sacks or Neiman Marcus just yet...

[MobiMan]

they should just go ahead and put a Coogi's, Phat Farm, Baby Phat, and Roca Wear outlets at Bel Air i dont see many White people there on the weekends

Bel Air took Springdales place after it closed its inside

We can't even keep a cheap $1.50 Movie Theatre here
The Black Security Gaurd that was at Springdale told me
the reason it closed down was because the Black kids were out of control
tearing things up and being disrespectful, cursing and talking loud during the movie
they even had in the press register where 2 black kids i think one 15 and one 19 held up another kid
at gun point and robbed him of his sneakers

even with 2 off duty cops securing the place at night they still had to close it down

i took my nephews there a week or 2 before it closed down on Dec 8th 2005
and during the movie these Black kids between 16 and 19 were in and out of the movie we were watching
yelling things like go home cracker, i hate f@#kin white people

Why screw up the dollar movie, why not screw up the 8 dollar movie Theater
what idiots


so Maybe Saraland is the best place for a new mall, for now anyway

oh and i know some people will read this and think im racist but im not
i love livng in a city with different races cultures, and i wouldnt want it anyother way
i just wish everyone would act right
i know white people do stupid sh@t to,

[NitekKetin]

Originally Posted by MobileLSUboy2005

that is partly true, but we could support smaller stores like Lucky Brand Jeans, Guess, Urban Outfitters, Anthropolgie, Apple, Sephora, Levi, and a few other what id call mid-to-upscale stores, if they were in a more upscale location (aka not the current bel air mall...) I doubt we could support a Sacks or Neiman Marcus just yet...

Then the management/ leasing office at both Eastern Shore Centre and Legacy Village is slacking.

[MobileLSUboy2005]

Originally Posted by NitekKetin

Then the management/ leasing office at both Eastern Shore Centre and Legacy Village is slacking.

haha i'm not arguing with that!

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by NitekKetin

Then the management/ leasing office at both Eastern Shore Centre and Legacy Village is slacking.

I am not sure you can blame it all on the management and leasing offices. They have probably contacted some of the retailers you mentioned, but most retailers are after a certain demographic and have a set population threshold or income area for them to meet before even considering opening a store.

On one of our previous trips to Los Angeles, we spent the day in Pasadena. Now that is a somewhat affluent city and the Saks Fifth Avenue in their downtown was in the process of closing. For them that might not be too big of a deal since customers could drive approximately 15 miles to their Bevery Hills stores. That just goes to show how difficult it often is to find that good mix of availability and demand in retail.

Maybe the centers mentioned above (ESC and LV) will land something good. It will just be difficult to please everyone. Someone earlier was all about a Z Gallerie locating there and actually used "upscale furniture" in the description. I would not have used those words together in the same sentence, but to someone else that might meet their needs. I think a lot of it deals with perception and where you might be in life.

I would certainly vote for anything new and upscale to be located in an invigorated downtown area. I know none of our downtowns in Alabama (right now) can relate to Santa Barbara, CA and the like, but that is what we all should be striving for in my opinion.