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  #3401  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 4:55 PM
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"Blueprint? What blueprint?"

*All* single family homes. No retail or mixed-use component. Doesn't sound like it will have much potential for public transit connections. Two roads as the only access points. And they're seriously using buzzwords like "green urban village" and "urban infill"?

It's a gated community. Exactly the same as the cruddy ticky-tacky boxes sprouting along I-5 and the other freeway corridors. Except, oh wait, the parking is in the back, a novel concept in 1995 but not exactly hot news in 2008. It's a cute idea but it doesn't promote walkability if there's nothing to walk to, except for your neighbor's identical house. No retail or mixed-use area means the nearest services (of any sort) are well out of walking distance, so absolutely not "walkable."

Enclosed by a busy freeway on one side and a busy (and noisy!) freight and passenger railroad route on the other, on top of a piece of land with a water table so high that there is still green grass in the middle of it even during a drought year (which means that not only do we lose flood capacity, but it will have water table problems similar to those in Southport where foundations are already cracking because they were poured on top of spongy alluvial soil--perfect for farming but awful for housing) and trying to pitch a generic suburban tract that is attracting little but foreclosure signs and plywood nailed over the windows anywhere in the nation. Oh yeah, and drivers going home to this development from downtown will have to take the 28th Street grade-crossing route, the same ones used by garbage trucks on the way to the old city dump. And speaking of the old city dump, that's the main landscape feature visible across the freeway.

It's almost difficult to imagine a combination more ideally suited for epic levels of failure.
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  #3402  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
It's almost difficult to imagine a combination more ideally suited for epic levels of failure.
from the same progressive, visionary genius who brought you Laguna West.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The New York Times, on June 14, 2002
"Laguna West, a development near Sacramento, was initially hailed as a pioneering example of how to build a community that was not overly dependent on the automobile. But it has since gone through changes that have led critics to label it as classic urban sprawl, though with porches and alleys." ...

"Laguna West is one of the most pitiful examples of a so-called New Urbanist community that in reality is little different than a 1970's-era development in Los Angeles."
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  #3403  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 10:40 PM
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double post
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  #3404  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ozone View Post
And about the so-called Centrage site. I think they should just turn it into a park and build a pedestrian bridge across CCF linking it to the future Sutter Landing Park.



I was thinking the same thing. Nice map and I've always liked naming things, places, restaurants, etc. in Sacramento "New Helvetia". It keeps our historical first name "alive".
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  #3405  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 10:50 PM
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Heck, I like the park idea too...or a new site for the Sacramento zoo! I also like the not-so-subtle irony of a big nature park on top of our old dump. It would make for a more impressive drive into the central city than a cookie-cutter sea of beige.

The fact that we have a big swath of natural beauty, in the form of the American River parkway, in the middle of the city is definitely something cool that could use some playing up--a bit like Chicago's nature preserves, like ours, near the rivers. Those are very neat--you're driving along through a chunk of Chicagoland and suddenly instead of hot dog stands and Dunkin Donuts you're surrounded by trees and occasionally see deer.

Looking at that illustration makes me wonder...could cars drive *over* the railroad tracks, instead of a cut-through in the levee? Hmmm.
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  #3406  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 11:08 PM
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new helvetia park

Wow that looks great. I mean yes I remember being a teen and walking the trestle from REI to the dump and running through the methane under the moonlight and getting extremely light headed, but what a great use of all this land. Developing this area for living is dumb who would live there right by such a busy part of the freeway. What's missing from that park picture is an RT line running through it that runs out to cal expo and arden.
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  #3407  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 6:36 AM
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Great shots snfenoc. Here's a few more showing some glass.





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  #3408  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 4:16 PM
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I love the design of 500CM, but seriously, was the person who chose the color scheme blind? The lower base at least, that's hideous.
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  #3409  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SacTownAndy View Post
I love the design of 500CM, but seriously, was the person who chose the color scheme blind? The lower base at least, that's hideous.

I agree 100%.

I will withhold final judgement for now, but this building is starting to follow the same path as 621CM.

That is, that it looks much better in the rendering than it does in person.


I'm starting to think that Sacramento would fare better without a design review board at this point.
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  #3410  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 4:43 AM
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um, the design review board makes their decisions based off the renderings. So if the rendering looks great to you, it probably also looked great to the design review board.

Renderings can be really deceptive. The architect who provides the render will obviously choose renders that show off the building's best features, and downplay the worst. The end result is basically an urban-planning equivalent of the Myspace angle.
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  #3411  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 7:26 AM
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Planning

I don't get that logic dubburg. If they Know there is a "worst" part of their design, than why not do better. Why be mediocre in your design? I mean yea the original 500 was horrid, but I don't get why these new buildings look week in parts and why they have parking Butts? Park underground man. At first I though the US Bank building would have a glass slant roof like NYC's Citigroup building, now that thing lights up at night let me tell you. Look at Calstrs, now that is on par. It reminds me of a similar modern glass building in Philly. We could use some good design. But then again we have people thinking that Saca's new tower project was too sleek. Please give me a break we could use a SF Trinity like tower in Sac or anything from Portland that is going up now. I mean our city leaders spend so much time there, why not. I suggest that they head up to Vancouver Canada to see what sleek really means. The point should always be, if you build something that we have to look at, it better be good. If you build something that is influenced by the Parthenon, than maybe you need to rethink what you're doing. I can't help but think that if 500 was designed after the spooky house on h and 22nd, we'd really have something that we could all be proud of in this city. Oh, and that last sentence was not meant to be sarcastic.
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  #3412  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urban_encounter View Post
I agree 100%.

I will withhold final judgement for now, but this building is starting to follow the same path as 621CM.

That is, that it looks much better in the rendering than it does in person.


I'm starting to think that Sacramento would fare better without a design review board at this point.
I agree Urban, I'll reserve judgement until I see the final product, but I'm not really liking it so far.


p.s. - WOO HOO! My 1,000th post! And it only took 6 1/2 years to get here... damn I'm getting old.
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  #3413  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 7:52 PM
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I would say 500CM looks very close to the rendering and uses much better
quality of materials that 620CM did.

The whole towers gonna be wrapped in granite (mined in Brazil and finished in Italy).
The last tower built with granite in Sacramento was the Wells Fargo Bldg.
in 1990. I was more concerned about how the back side would look than anything
else... and it appears to be okay from what I've seen. The cladding/paneling
of 621CM looks cheap compared to the granite of 500CM.
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  #3414  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 10:37 PM
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I vaguely remember seeing or hearing that each of those setbacks towards the top were going to be lighted? Does anyone know if this is true and if not, if there will be any type of lighting element?
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  #3415  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innov8 View Post
I would say 500CM looks very close to the rendering and uses much better
quality of materials that 620CM did.

The whole towers gonna be wrapped in granite (mined in Brazil and finished in Italy).
The last tower built with granite in Sacramento was the Wells Fargo Bldg.
in 1990. I was more concerned about how the back side would look than anything
else... and it appears to be okay from what I've seen. The cladding/paneling
of 621CM looks cheap compared to the granite of 500CM.
Interesting that you mention the Wells Farg Bldg. I was there to today and was comparing the two buildings (500 CM and the Wells Fargo bldg.) The design and shape of the windows and the granite are very very similar. Maybe 500CM decided to differentiate itself from the Wells bldg. by using the blue motif. Can't say I really like the blue until I see the finished product.
I really like the granite too; very nice.
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  #3416  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 11:36 PM
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I think the design of 500CM is alright. Its different from other high-rises in the sense that its not too boxy. Its better than 621CM thats for sure. If they could have done something to hide the parking garage, have 5 floors of above ground instead of 10 floors, 500CM would receive more style points. Hopefully there will be some lighting component on both sides.
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  #3417  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 12:55 AM
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The 500CM design is alright. It's just that old del taco blue. The motel 6 blue. Hopefully the final product ends up being more appealing.
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  #3418  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 6:52 AM
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i still think it looks like King Tut.



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  #3419  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 6:09 PM
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217 units on 8.2 aces comes to 26 DUH...not bad for SFHs. More density would have been nice, but at least it gets rid of a lifeless building and replaces it with housing close to the CBD. Glad to hear they are including at least a little bit of retail as well.

Plus it sounds like they might be affordable for a larger market of people, including state workers.

217 homes planned for former Crystal Cream site
Subsidy-free project aims for nearby public employees
Sacramento Business Journal - by Michael Shaw Staff writer

A developer that’s already entered Sacramento’s infill residential market claims it can deliver new loft housing for about $300,000 — without public subsidies — at the old Crystal Cream & Butter Co. site near downtown Sacramento.

That means a virtually unheard of construction cost of $100 to $125 per square foot for loft units, one type of housing envisioned there.

San Diego-based MetroNova Development LLC and its designer, PHA Architects of Sacramento, have proposed 217 closely packed single-family homes as well as about 90,000 square feet of office space in a project dubbed “The Creamery” on D Street. Their ideal homebuyers are downtown employees who want to walk just a few blocks to work.

The cost for infill housing of this type has traditionally been much higher than the $125-per-square-foot target, but MetroNova and PHA have been continually checking with contractors to make sure the idea is still reasonable.

“That’s quite a bit lower than I’d expect,” said Bob Walter, founder of RJ Walter Homes and a longtime builder of infill housing, of the target construction price for the lofts. “It’s times like these when our industry gets very creative. It says a lot about that location that developers and banks will take a risk in this market.”

The developers expect to save through innovative design.

“‘Work force housing’ is a term like ‘low-income housing’ that’s been denigrated,” said Craig Hausman, an architect with PHA. “We’re not using any subsidies, so how it’s designed makes a big difference.”

The firm has created a mix of lofts, row houses and half-plexes, with money-saving designs. Besides homes, MetroNova is proposing a stretch of artists’ studios and two large commercial buildings. The homes range from an 800-square-foot, one-bedroom loft to a 1,700-square-foot row house.

All of the housing will be for-sale homes built to the edge of their lots or attached. The office buildings also are being designed as condos to be sold, not leased. Plans call for a small portion of the commercial space to be neighborhood-serving retail.

The project is expected to go to the city planning commission next month and to the design commission shortly after, said Evan Compton, a senior planner with the city. The Creamery will need general and community plan updates and rezoning from industrial to a mix of housing and commercial. If approved by the City Council, construction is planned for spring.

Demolition work has already started because scavengers stripped the old Crystal Cream buildings of copper tubing and other materials, making them unsafe. Crystal Cream set up at the site in 1911 and operated for many years before moving operations to south Sacramento. The dairy company sold the 8.2-acre site early last year.

MetroNova is the developer behind the Tapestri Square brownstones in midtown, which are aimed at more of a luxury market than The Creamery. That project and other infill developments have been hit hard by the housing downturn as an anticipated wave of migration from the suburbs to the city has been reduced to a trickle. Sacramento developer Anthony Giannoni is one of the company’s principals. Other partners on The Creamery project include contractor Brown Construction Inc. and structural engineer Kit Miyamoto.

The project’s designs have been warmly received by the residents, said Sean Wright, president of the Alkali and Mansion Flats Historic Neighborhood Association. As a resident of the neighborhood for more than 20 years, Wright said he welcomes the arrival of single-family housing.

“I’m speaking for the community, but also as a resident,” he said. “In this neighborhood, there is about 80 percent rentals. That doesn’t offer a stable community. We’ve been plagued by a transient population.”

He said the designs will be compatible with the Victorian houses in that neighborhood but won’t try to imitate that style.

Housing is also a relief after the site had been used for years as a fueling station for the dairy company’s trucks, and residents had to maneuver around the idling vehicles in their neighborhood.

“We are very happy with the designs,” he said.


Last edited by sugit; Aug 8, 2008 at 6:26 PM.
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  #3420  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 7:03 PM
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Too lazy to read the article, where is this located?
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