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  #61  
Old Posted May 28, 2008, 1:24 PM
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I always thought the Palac Kultury looked better in photos than in person…
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  #62  
Old Posted May 28, 2008, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
The colours remind me more of Newfoundland's parliamentary buildings:

photo by me
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  #63  
Old Posted May 28, 2008, 11:49 PM
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I don't mind it at all. The colours are really neutral with the natural surroundings and I think once phase II or III comes along, Lebreton is gonna be the place to be as far as Ottawa condos go. I'm judging this on a scale of how much I am dreading the next tower going up and I don't at all. Whereas I am absolutely dreading Claridge Plaza II. I really like the ass end of that building that faces Nicholas and U of O (nice setbakcks, colour scheme blends well), but that awful circular thing facing Rideau with the 1970's toilet colour accents .
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  #64  
Old Posted May 29, 2008, 12:01 AM
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It's funny, when they were nothing more than concept drawings, I utterly abhored 90 George and loved Claridge Plaza. Now I find that I've done a 180 with regards to those condos...
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  #65  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 5:37 PM
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21 july 2008

Thought I may as well throw this in here.

It still doesn't look like they're finished up inside..

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  #66  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 3:04 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
Thought I may as well throw this in here.

It still doesn't look like they're finished up inside..

I look forward to seeing this one for myself when I get up to Ottawa. Everytime I see a photo, it looks more institutional than residential to me, but maybe it shows better "in person". I am really unsure about an entire neighbourhood of this, but we live in hope.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 2:01 PM
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I look forward to seeing this one for myself when I get up to Ottawa. Everytime I see a photo, it looks more institutional than residential to me, but maybe it shows better "in person". I am really unsure about an entire neighbourhood of this, but we live in hope.
It looks just as institutional in person, perhaps even more so. Few of the people on the street I've spoken to about this development have anything good to say about it; most think it's butt ugly. But then, this is Claridge we're talking about, the creators of some fairly awful buildings, the worst of which is 700 Sussex. They must have some good friends in high places at City Hall.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 2:06 PM
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Whats funny about Claridge is that there inside designs and floorplans seem quiet good. Perhaps this is why they sell.


They seem to have a problem with the outside....
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  #69  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 3:06 PM
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The biggest design challenge for LeBreton is that it will be just a small cluster of isolated buildings for a long time. With no city to melt into, they stick out even more. So they get noticed even more, for better or for worse.

From the renderings, Phase II's one misstep in my opinion is (again!) all that grass between the sidewalk and the building. It turns the building inward forever. There may not be much of a sidewalk scene there now, or for the foreseeable future, but it's meant to happen in the long term and with the design they have now, that stretch of street will be sterilized.

Calgary has some sharp examples of Vancouver-style townhouse units at ground level that have a very good relation to the street. We remain mired in design immaturity.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mille Sabords View Post
From the renderings, Phase II's one misstep in my opinion is (again!) all that grass between the sidewalk and the building. It turns the building inward forever. There may not be much of a sidewalk scene there now, or for the foreseeable future, but it's meant to happen in the long term and with the design they have now, that stretch of street will be sterilized.
If you look at the site plan it doesn't look that far from the street (http://www.canadascapital.gc.ca/data/2/rec_docs/386_DL_rgb_04.pdf)

I think the rendering is from the south side "Pooley's Bridge Mews" which isn't a street, it's a pedestrian walkway.
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  #71  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 1:52 AM
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Quote:
NCC, Claridge wrangled over LeBreton
Commission rejected builder's revised plans for flagship tower, year spent on compromise
Mohammed Adam, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Monday, August 04, 2008

The National Capital Commission rejected key parts of Claridge Homes' design for the first building in its LeBreton Flats development because changes to the original plan contravened federal guidelines for the project, documents obtained from the NCC show.

The NCC not only rejected a design for the flagship glass tower now being built on the Flats, but also refused to approve a plan for a six-storey building that was to be the core of the second stage of the development.

Construction on a compromise design is now well under way, but for more than a year, the commission worked with Claridge to come up with an acceptable design for the first tower. The NCC was particularly concerned that modifications Claridge made to its plans -- from the original curtain-wall design to a window-wall system -- would alter the building's presentation and appearance.

The commission also didn't like the initial blue colour chosen for the tower.

The curtain wall the NCC wanted was essentially a sheet of glass enveloping the entire building without any visible breaks, meant to give the tower a sleek appearance.

The goal was to make the tower blend with the sky, leaving the six-storey concrete base or podium to catch the eye.

A window wall has interruptions in the glass at each floor, making for a less sleek design.

"In consideration that this landmark tower is not only the first, but essentially the public face of the LeBreton Flats residential development, the Commission considers essential that an accurate representation of the window wall system, detail and colour be made available for review and if satisfactory, approval by the NCC prior to construction," said a July 4, 2007 memo to Claridge president Bill Malhotra.

Rhys Phillips, an architecture critic, said the fundamental mistake was made four years ago and now the NCC and Claridge seem to be "arguing about rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.

"You basically have a design that is somewhat better than what you see on Rideau Street. It is pretty bland, lacks animation and tends to be rather institutional," Mr. Phillips said. "It doesn't matter whether it is curtain or window wall, blue or green. It is a moot point. It is just going to be second-rate."

The NCC design committee also would not approve the second stage of the project because officials didn't like a modified design for the doors of the ground-floor units, which it found to be "contrary to the planning principles and objectives" of the LeBreton Flats design guidelines.

"Claridge Homes must, therefore, address these aspects of the design to the satisfaction of the NCC, and present the revised proposal to the NCC and its ACPDR (design committee) prior to construction," the July 4 memo said.

Because of the work Claridge had to do to satisfy the NCC, the project was delayed, prompting NCC board members to ask senior staff whether "Claridge had abandoned" LeBreton Flats, "as no work was evident."

And even though the commission's director of real-estate management, Peter McCourt, assured board members that work was going on, he said in an e-mail to Claridge that "the feeling seems to remain that work has slowed down."

After initially promising to comment to the Citizen on the memos, senior NCC officials changed their minds three days later and refused to offer any response.

In an interview, Claridge's Mr. Malhotra denied the company made any "meaningful" changes to the original design and criticized the Citizen for dwelling on irrelevant issues.

"There was no changes, depends on what you call changes. If the architect involved in the design says the design needs to be improved, he made the changes. But to my knowledge, there was no changes, like changes," he said. "I don't understand why you guys are wasting your time on things which are absolutely not relevant. You guys are just wasting your time, you don't have anything better to do?"

Claridge won the right to build the first batch of new LeBreton Flats homes essentially by default because two other companies that scored higher on an NCC evaluation -- Ottawa's Minto and Montreal's Alliance Prével -- withdrew their bids in a dispute with the commission. Several people criticized the NCC for a flawed selection system that cut out smaller and more creative builders and ended with the city's most heralded development project in the hands of a company that, according to the commission's own assessment, was not the best. The mood of the critics didn't brighten any when the winning bid was unveiled to reveal a plan that many people said was just ordinary.

The NCC stood its ground and senior officials expressed confidence that Claridge would do a good job as the plan unfolded. Besides, the detailed design of each building would be approved individually to ensure the best outcome, officials said.

The documents show that two years after the NCC approved the first phase of the landmark development, it was still in constant discussion with Claridge about changes to the design. One memo said changes to the tower were "significant enough in colour, finish and appearance to cause some concern among members."

Another memo talked about tower modifications "that would result in a substantial change to the façade and the previously approved developed design."

The first sign of problems with the Claridge design emerged in a Nov. 10, 2006, letter to company vice-president Neil Malhotra in which the NCC complained about changes in the design of the 12-storey tower.

According to the documents obtained for the Citizen by researcher Ken Rubin, Claridge made the changes for "budgetary reasons." But the NCC said the changes were significant enough to trigger a clause in the design approval regulations that called for the issue to be referred to the commission's advisory committee on planning and design.

At its meeting on Feb. 8, 2007, the committee rejected the choice of a window wall because it deprived the building of its previous "simplicity and consistency."

"The strength of the originally proposed design depended on the contrast between the articulated masonry base and the sleek glass tower," the panel said. But with the changes, "there appears to be a loss of the sleekness and elegance in the design that the committee recommended for approval in December 2005."

The committee rejected the choice of a blue colour for the glass tower, later settling for green. It also asked for the design of the balconies, the handling of the kitchen and bathroom exhaust and other physical attributes to be modified.

Prominent Ottawa architect Ron Keenberg said no one should blame Claridge because the NCC is getting what it bargained for when it selected the company as the builder. Mr. Keenberg said Claridge is in the business of making money. It is the NCC, whose duty is to demand architectural excellence, especially on as prominent a site as LeBreton, that should be blamed for any failure, he said.

"You are getting an OK apartment block, nothing special, but nothing bad. If it was built on Montreal Road or Richmond Road, we'd probably say, 'that's nice.' On LeBreton Flats, I'd have expected more. But the NCC got what they wanted," Mr. Keenberg said.

"If I were on the design committee, I'd just have said 'No' to the Claridge proposal in the first place because it was mundane, it was ordinary. But the problem is not with Claridge. The problem is with the NCC's low expectation."

© The Ottawa Citizen 2008
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  #72  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 2:50 AM
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I am still a month away from seeing this building for the first time, but some of the comments in this article confirm the impression I have formed from the photos on this thread, especially Rhys Phillips' description of it as "rather institutional". I am surprised but guess I should not be that the NCC does not or cannot exercise greater control over what is built on its land (or maybe just does so badly?). At the same time, the point is made that this is probably a better than average building in terms of Ottawa apartment towers. Will any lessons be learned?
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  #73  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 11:07 AM
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Will any lessons be learned?
We are talking about the NCC here.
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  #74  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
especially Rhys Phillips' description of it as "rather institutional".
Where has that purveyor of alliteration and general gobbly gook architectural double speak, Rhys Phillips gone to. His gig with the Ottawa Citizen seems to be up and maybe now he has to be a practicing architect and have to defend his own designs.
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  #75  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by clynnog View Post
Where has that purveyor of alliteration and general gobbly gook architectural double speak, Rhys Phillips gone to. His gig with the Ottawa Citizen seems to be up and maybe now he has to be a practicing architect and have to defend his own designs.
Thank you for that comment. I've always found that guy to be an airbag. Plus, I've never agreed with a single one of his critiques.
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  #76  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 3:31 AM
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I'm new to the thread. I purchased a unit in Tower 2. And as a stakeholder in this project, I wish to share my thoughts and observations.

The reason I purchased at Lebreton Flats was for location. I wanted to be close to work and still in the outskirts of downtown. Lebreton Flats was the perfect choice. I was a bit concerned about Claridge being the builder, but at the end of the day no matter who got the contract I was buyer.

Tower 1 looks nice... not outstanding, but perhaps for affordability sake it was good that it wasn't too over the top. The features inside the units are adequate, again not overdone. Irregardless of the exterior, since I will be living on the inside, I'm hoping the builders pull through. It not only has to look good, but it has to feel like home, cozy.

For those who are interested, I paid a visit to the sales offices today and here are some things that I learned:

The first purchasers of units in Tower 1 began moving in yesterday. Personally I wouldn't want to be moving in with all that construction still going on!

The prices of the units in Tower 2 have gone up $5,000 since they were released in November 2007.

Occupancy for Tower 2 has been pushed back to Summer 2010. When I purchased my unit they had a tentative move in date of Fall 2009.

They are supposed to break grown for Tower 2 next month.

Personally I can't wait to move in!
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  #77  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 12:56 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Originally Posted by yyz1971 View Post
I'm new to the thread. I purchased a unit in Tower 2. And as a stakeholder in this project, I wish to share my thoughts and observations.

The reason I purchased at Lebreton Flats was for location. I wanted to be close to work and still in the outskirts of downtown. Lebreton Flats was the perfect choice. I was a bit concerned about Claridge being the builder, but at the end of the day no matter who got the contract I was buyer.

Tower 1 looks nice... not outstanding, but perhaps for affordability sake it was good that it wasn't too over the top. The features inside the units are adequate, again not overdone. Irregardless of the exterior, since I will be living on the inside, I'm hoping the builders pull through. It not only has to look good, but it has to feel like home, cozy.

For those who are interested, I paid a visit to the sales offices today and here are some things that I learned:

The first purchasers of units in Tower 1 began moving in yesterday. Personally I wouldn't want to be moving in with all that construction still going on!

The prices of the units in Tower 2 have gone up $5,000 since they were released in November 2007.

Occupancy for Tower 2 has been pushed back to Summer 2010. When I purchased my unit they had a tentative move in date of Fall 2009.

They are supposed to break grown for Tower 2 next month.

Personally I can't wait to move in!
That speaks to something I have generally noticed. Claridge seems to have some very good interior designs and layouts, certainly when compared to other builders in the same class. (we won't compare with the likes of Charlesfort since they are build at the high end). Certainly they are miles ahead of urban capital on interiors.
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  #78  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by c_speed3108 View Post
That speaks to something I have generally noticed. Claridge seems to have some very good interior designs and layouts, certainly when compared to other builders in the same class. (we won't compare with the likes of Charlesfort since they are build at the high end). Certainly they are miles ahead of urban capital on interiors.
Yes Having lived in both an Urban Capital and Claridge building, I would agree. Urban capital designs the outside of the buildign and then chops up space into Units, Claridge sticks with basic layouts that lead to basic exteriors. The quality of the hardwood floors, counters, air conditioning/heating etc seems much higher in Urban Capital however.
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  #79  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 11:32 PM
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I'm quite amused by the notion that condo towers are all of a sudden supposed to be "world class" architecture. Rhys Phillips' idea that people should flock from around the globe to fawn over condo towers in an undeveloped area of Ottawa is foolish beyond words. The most important thing for Lebreton is getting people living there. The War Museum and Bluesfest have planted the seeds nicely, and the condos appear to be a good first step to building a population base.

The real estate market in Ottawa will always be distorted by the presence of government, and expecting elite constructions to just spring from the ground is not realistic. Washington, which is a much bigger private-sector town than Ottawa is, still has major investment issues. It's good that we expect better from the NCC and from developers, but the rhetoric can get a little overheated.
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  #80  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2008, 8:58 PM
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Hello All,

I'm new here to the site, and fairly new to Ottawa as well. I live only a few minutes drive away from the LeBreton Flats, and I can likely help posting updates on this area, as well as Westborough Village (as I live between the two...right near Tunney's).

I can say that I started coming to Ottawa, even before being posted here (I met my wife here, who already lived and worked here for years). I think that even if the buildings being built at the Flats are to some degree Ugly, they are certainly nicer than the brownfields they are replacing...something small cities in southern Ontario should start doing more of too actually...

Anyways, I'll be on to look at this, and other threads on a regular basis...

L8tz!
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