Huntsville updates

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by -=skywalker=-

Your logic is very ignorant and closed minded, I can afford to shop at Bridge Street and frequent the Monaco Theater, however if I had the choice I'd much rather use public transit. Then again, I've also lived in cities like Washington D.C. where it's common to sit next to a doctor, lawyer, or even an elected politician on the Metro.

Haha, I can back you up on that. The metro is very extensive. It was always much easier than the alternatives. Drive, cab, or walk... wow, yes, subway works just fine for me. And I've sat next to numerous high salaried people on the metro, even the MARTA.

[crr0004]

If you are ignorant enough to think that because you can afford 5$ a gallon gas then you probably haven't left your Huntsville bubble very often. I've been raised in a very affluent family and even I don't want to spend my money on 5$/gallon gas if there is a useful metro available. Most people can probably afford high gas prices, they are just smart enough not to if given the opportunity.

[bodagetta]

One lacking thing with Huntsville's transit plans is closing too early. A bus system from downtown to Bridge Street would be great if it ran until 2 or 3am. I'd love to go to a movie at Bridge Street then hop a bus downtown, or vice versa.

BTW, I'm also one of those people who can afford to shop at Bridge Street, but I'd still ride a bus if it had a regular schedule and didn't take me an hour to get downtown from BS.

[HSVTiger]

Where Huntsville should be leading is in light rail. A conglomeration of business leaders, UAH, A&M, NASA/Army and the state/federal could have created a
group to design and build a system that would connect downtown Decatur,
Huntsville International, Research Park/Bridge Street, Downtown Huntsville, with a north south spur that would start at Alabama A&M, south to Downtown/Constellation/VBC, Parkway Place and end at Haysland Square.
All the work being done to go back to the moon, create top secret weapons on the Arsenal, cutting edge biotech at Hudson Alpha, but no one can come up with a relative simple transportation method? Huntsville has the brainpower and resources but yet we still go fill up the car with fuel supplied from countries that hate us, so we can buy junk from China a country that also has plans to destroy us, either militarily or with technology.
The systen would be supplemented with feeder routes using electric busses .
What are we waiting for or do we think is going to happen? Gas going to get cheaper, wages going higher,? We need viable alternatives.
Chattanooga is doing a lot in this area, and now with VW on board you will see more coming out of there on energy solutions.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by crr0004

If you are ignorant enough to think that because you can afford 5$ a gallon gas then you probably haven't left your Huntsville bubble very often. I've been raised in a very affluent family and even I don't want to spend my money on 5$/gallon gas if there is a useful metro available. Most people can probably afford high gas prices, they are just smart enough not to if given the opportunity.

True, to gleefully pay for gas is ignorant when better solutions exist.
For the majority of people high gas prices lead to other problems, and the economy is showing us that now. Watch the retail world, it is being choked
to death. Retail is the life blood for most cities, .. sales tax.

[jmanhsv]

Even though they won the VW plant, Chattanooga continues to bash Huntsville... according to this article, they implied to VW officials that Huntsville was "rattlesnake-infested" when asked about the bug-snake problems in the area.

And by the way, our "rattlesnake infested" city of ours got #3 on BusinessWeek's "Best Cities for Tech Jobs" list, behind Boulder and San Jose (though the picture they used for Huntsville is actually Huntsville, TX- how the hell do people get the cities mixed up?). Chattanooga... well, it didn't even make the list.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by jmanhsv

Even though they won the VW plant, Chattanooga continues to bash Huntsville... according to this article, they implied to VW officials that Huntsville was "rattlesnake-infested" when asked about the bug-snake problems in the area.

And by the way, our "rattlesnake infested" city of ours got #3 on BusinessWeek's "Best Cities for Tech Jobs" list, behind Boulder and San Jose (though the picture they used for Huntsville is actually Huntsville, TX- how the hell do people get the cities mixed up?). Chattanooga... well, it didn't even make the list.

Ridiculous! Unbelievable that they took advantage of VW's ignorance like that.

[Jacknah]

Originally Posted by crr0004

If you are ignorant enough to think that because you can afford 5$ a gallon gas then you probably haven't left your Huntsville bubble very often. I've been raised in a very affluent family and even I don't want to spend my money on 5$/gallon gas if there is a useful metro available. Most people can probably afford high gas prices, they are just smart enough not to if given the opportunity.

I haven't left my Huntsville bubble very often? I don't live in Huntsville. I moved on to bigger and better things. I just come back to visit family, and do some business. And I don't agree with your socialist paradigm. Let the market decide if we need mass transit. If it makes economic sense, the private sector will provide it. If Bridge Street can profit more by having mass transit, then they will provide their own bus service. No doubt about that. The only reason government steps in is because it's DOESN'T make good economic sense. Hence, the strong arm of government and taxation has to provide it rather than voluntary contribution. Who is Ron Paul?

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Jacknah

I haven't left my Huntsville bubble very often? I don't live in Huntsville. I moved on to bigger and better things. I just come back to visit family, and do some business. And I don't agree with your socialist paradigm. Let the market decide if we need mass transit. If it makes economic sense, the private sector will provide it. If Bridge Street can profit more by having mass transit, then they will provide their own bus service. No doubt about that. The only reason government steps in is because it's DOESN'T make good economic sense. Hence, the strong arm of government and taxation has to provide it rather than voluntary contribution. Who is Ron Paul?

Geez, I don't think it's all that much socialistic. It makes perfect economic sense without the private sector even thinking about it. It's simple, improve access to this private sector and they get a heck of a lot more business. Plus, more businesses located because of better access. I'm not liberal at all. I'm conservative, and I'm all for mass transit.

Please, can't we all just stop fighting about whether or not we can afford to buy gas and not the bus?

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

Ridiculous! Unbelievable that they took advantage of VW's ignorance like that.

I think we are seeing that this selection process was made up of big lies,deception and ignorance. Jobs being posted for VW in Chattanooga before the choice was made public, VW picking an inferior site in Alabama,
TN officials knowing weeks ahead of time. It was a sham from the get go.
I doubt you will see new VW suppliers or future plant in Alabama.
It will all stay in TN.

[jonnie256]

Sweetwater=believe it when I see it.
Project off hwy20 and county line rd.=definatley believe it when I see it!
Constellation=possibly believe it(have seen them throwing dirt around).
Buildings over 10 stories in downtown=will never happen.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Buddy, the Decatur City Council is going to decide about the contract on Monday. I'm gonna be there. I think there are more than enough hotel developers that would love to be involved with this development. I think it's just a matter of finding the right one, and I have no doubt they will. This piece of land is possibly the most unexploited part of Alabama for some type of development. The developer knows this, and they'll find a hotel.

I say, get ready to believe.

[g-man435]

Originally Posted by jonnie256

Sweetwater=believe it when I see it.
Project off hwy20 and county line rd.=definatley believe it when I see it!
Constellation=possibly believe it(have seen them throwing dirt around).
Buildings over 10 stories in downtown=will never happen.

The first one sounds like it's moving forward to me. Reminds me of Dillard Creek/Creekside Village here. It will get built out in the surburbs and include a hotel conference center along with BPS too. Don't even know what the second one is. It seems like they have been saying construction will start this date and that date on Constellation for years. Are they actually ever going to start building anything? We have buildings over 10 stories tall downtown and nobody cares, so why should you?

[Y1wbahk]

What's the story of height restrictions of buildings in Huntsville? Any possibility of the restrictions being lifted--especially downtown?

Huntsville really needs a strong, focused center. More often than not, buildings are the visual reminders of dynamic central cores (check out newscasts, for example).

[g-man435]

Originally Posted by Y1wbahk

What's the story of height restrictions of buildings in Huntsville? Any possibility of the restrictions being lifted--especially downtown?

Huntsville really needs a strong, focused center. More often than not, buildings are the visual reminders of dynamic central cores (check out newscasts, for example).

Not really. When was the last time an automotive company like BMW that has created over 5,000 jobs in the upstate of South Carolina alone built a highrise? A skyline does not define what a city is and how much economic development/jobs it has.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

Where Huntsville should be leading is in light rail. A conglomeration of business leaders, UAH, A&M, NASA/Army and the state/federal could have created a
group to design and build a system that would connect downtown Decatur,
Huntsville International, Research Park/Bridge Street, Downtown Huntsville, with a north south spur that would start at Alabama A&M, south to Downtown/Constellation/VBC, Parkway Place and end at Haysland Square. .

It would be great if a light rail were on the existing Norfolk Southern line between Decatur and Downtown Huntsville with stops at the Airport, Madison, Bridge Street, Space Center/UAH and Constellation/Von Braun Center. However, at this time it would not be financially feasible as Madison County has about 300,000 people whereas Metro Atlanta has over 5 milllion people (with 2 million more expected by 2020) and still MARTA struggles to break even. Atlanta also has a large poor urban population with many who don't own a car and are totally dependent on public transit for their livelihood. Huntsville doen't have this base of support. Perhaps if more density were developed along the existing track in the future there could be a density to support public transit in Madison County.

[jmanhsv]

Originally Posted by Y1wbahk

What's the story of height restrictions of buildings in Huntsville? Any possibility of the restrictions being lifted--especially downtown?

Huntsville really needs a strong, focused center. More often than not, buildings are the visual reminders of dynamic central cores (check out newscasts, for example).

Only downtown has height limits right now. The planning board and city council are going back and forth with it, with no progress being made. From how I see it, on one side, there are the old money (read: potential campaign funding) people of Twickenham and Old Town who want downtown to stay the way it is- small, insignificant, and boring. Then you have everyone else, who either don't care or want this city to progress in places other than the fringes. I think it's going to depend on the mayor/council elections next month; Tommy Battle has made raising/removing the height limits one of his priorities if elected (along with creating a new downtown master plan), which is why he's gotten a lot of support from developers; Spencer, well, I think she's going to go with the same old, same old, b/c that's what gets us in the magazine rankings, I guess. Don't get me wrong, I like what she's done for the city, but I think it's time for someone new to take over.

Originally Posted by David1502

It would be great if a light rail were on the existing Norfolk Southern line between Decatur and Downtown Huntsville with stops at the Airport, Madison, Bridge Street, Space Center/UAH and Constellation/Von Braun Center. However, at this time it would not be financially feasible as Madison County has about 300,000 people whereas Metro Atlanta has over 5 milllion people (with 2 million more expected by 2020) and still MARTA struggles to break even. Atlanta also has a large poor urban population with many who don't own a car and are totally dependent on public transit for their livelihood. Huntsville doen't have this base of support. Perhaps if more density were developed along the existing track in the future there could be a density to support public transit in Madison County.

Oh, of course, a light rail/commuter rail line isn't feasible right now. But like I've said before, it doesn't hurt to plan early. We could start laying the groundwork (a comprehensive transit plan, a regional transit board) now, so that when we do get the critical mass to run a mass transit system (say, 30 years from now, when the Huntsville-Decatur area nears 1 million), we'll be ready.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by jmanhsv

Oh, of course, a light rail/commuter rail line isn't feasible right now. But like I've said before, it doesn't hurt to plan early. We could start laying the groundwork (a comprehensive transit plan, a regional transit board) now, so that when we do get the critical mass to run a mass transit system (say, 30 years from now, when the Huntsville-Decatur area nears 1 million), we'll be ready.

It'd be nice if people would actually start looking to the future instead of sitting there and deciding that since we don't need it right now, or couldn't support it right now, we just shouldn't build it, cause there's no need for it NOW. It seems that the area has this theory that time stands still and nothing progresses. Even though, there are space rockets being built in Huntsville and a huge shopping center proposed in Decatur.

I'm gonna start e-mailing my councilmen to get them to start at least looking at it. Maybe if they contact other council members in Huntsville and Madison, something could be planned and a goal could be set. maybe that's what we should all be doing.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by Huntsville_secede

I'm not convinced the people of Huntsville are really willing to spend large amounts of money at the type of stores in BridgeStreet especially with the way the economy is now. Some of my relatives came up for the weekend and stopped at BridgeStreet and they noticed how empty a lot of the stores were. And I've been there at least a dozen times and I always notice many of the stores empty even during peak shopping hours. A lot of the traffic there seems to be people waiting to get a table at one of the restaurants or waiting for a movie but are they actually buying anything? I'm interested to see how many of the stores are meeting or even coming close to their sales goal and remember the economy in Huntsville is still pretty good right now so the economic downturn can't be blamed entirely for BridgeStreet not meeting its expectations.

Back in December and the winter months I would have agreed with you that I didn't see how Bridge Street was going to make it. Now, however, the situation is totally different and there are consistent crowds and I see patrons in pretty much all of the stores (with the exception of Kate Spade which may be a little pricey for the market) These folks are actually carrying shopping bags. As far as the view that Huntsville shoppers will not support the high end, please keep in mind the former Parisian now Belk at Parkway Place is one of their top five stores. One of the sales agents informed me that when Belk bought Parisian they found out that the Parkway Place was the number one Parisian store for volume(others may have had a higher profitablity) When Parisian built that store several years ago they expected it do around $45 million. I'm sure it is more than that now. If you look at the brands carried it is in many ways comparable to a lot of the lines which a typical Nordstrom carries. Also, it has had a Kate Spade section for several years so there must be some ladies buying it or they wouldn't keep carrying it. (The presence of this Kate Spade dept. at Belk probably hurts the sales of the Bridge Street store.) Anyway, there is a higher end market in HSV. It may not be as significant as some might hope or as much as found in other cities (Hickey Freeman suits for $1,000 + at Belk Men's dept. are definitely "high end."):

[David1502]

Originally Posted by jmanhsv

Oh, of course, a light rail/commuter rail line isn't feasible right now. But like I've said before, it doesn't hurt to plan early. We could start laying the groundwork (a comprehensive transit plan, a regional transit board) now, so that when we do get the critical mass to run a mass transit system (say, 30 years from now, when the Huntsville-Decatur area nears 1 million), we'll be ready.

I agree with you. That is the reason I said that perhaps if greater density is built along the existing track, in the future it could be feasible. If you consider how much is already adjacent to the Norfolk Southern track it is amazing how much could be connected - the Target distribution center on Greenbriar Rd, the "Billion dollar development on County Line Rd", the Airport (with a spur), "downtown Madison", Bridge Street/ Cummings Research Park (Where a multi-modal facility will be), Space Center/UAH, Downtown Huntsville, the Von Braun Center and Constellation (in the future a south line to Parkway Place and Airport Rd.), Alabama A& M, and the Chase Industrial Park. All of these locations are right along this track. If more large scale developments with higher density are encouraged along this route then there is a market to support a light rail route.