Rapid Transit

[JT Jacobs]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

Fare collection is a serious issue. Every LRT I've ever rode is so easy to avoid paying - simply walk on, and don't swipe the ticket. However with multiple points of entry checking fares is impossible. Building enclosures at every stop is ugly and impractical. Then add the fact that the rest of the system is still using paper transfers which would never work with a validation system. At the very least, we would have to upgrade to magnetic tickets.

The strangest thing I've ever seen is on the Grenoble system, at night the transit cops are out in full force, they even gave me the gears for taking pictures in the vehicles. I haven't seen anything like it even on big city subways and I'd hate to think of what that costs the system. Imagine if all the cost savings of LRT are eaten up just policing the thing? I hope it doesn't come to that in Hamilton.

Calgary has an honour system for its LRT that, I'd say, works pretty well. To enforce the system, they have what they call Peace Officers who randomly get on cars and ask to see tickets. Every so often, they'll escort someone trying to beat the system out of a couple of bucks off the train and give him/her a $50-100 buck ticket. Hardly worth the 'savings' or the public humiliation. The system works, to my mind, and the cars hardly feel like a police state on tracks.

[DC83]

^^ This is what I was assuming Hamilton's LRT will be like. 'Peace Officers'.

I'm assuming this will all be factored into the Op. Costs when the time comes.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

Fare collection is a serious issue. Every LRT I've ever rode is so easy to avoid paying - simply walk on, and don't swipe the ticket. However with multiple points of entry checking fares is impossible. Building enclosures at every stop is ugly and impractical. Then add the fact that the rest of the system is still using paper transfers which would never work with a validation system. At the very least, we would have to upgrade to magnetic tickets.

The strangest thing I've ever seen is on the Grenoble system, at night the transit cops are out in full force, they even gave me the gears for taking pictures in the vehicles. I haven't seen anything like it even on big city subways and I'd hate to think of what that costs the system. Imagine if all the cost savings of LRT are eaten up just policing the thing? I hope it doesn't come to that in Hamilton.

In Germany the fare kontrollers are quite a common sight. I lived in Dresden for three years and they certainly seemed to employ a fair number of them, although there seemed to be less of them in the West German cities. What amused me is that they always dressed in plain, even scruffy clothes, so that you couldn't rush up to the validation thing if you saw them about to get on. I think there was even a TV show where they followed around a couple of kontrollers around Berlin and you could watch little old ladies arguing quite vehemently.

[SteelTown]

Have your say on Hamilton rapid transit

July 15, 2008
The Hamilton Spectator

Rapid transit in Steeltown?

Now you can have your say on the matter.

Hamilton's public works department is asking citizens to complete a short survey to share opinions about the rapid transit initiative in the city.

Feedback received by July 21 will be presented in a report to council in September.

A rapid transit system in Hamilton would see the implementation of three routes -- east to west routes both downtown and on the Mountain, and a north to south route connecting Upper James to the downtown.

Rapid transit might be buses, but there is also the potential for light rail.

Access the survey online at hamilton.ca/rapid-transit, or at City of Hamilton offices, libraries, municipal service centres and the HSR ticket office at the Hamilton GO station.

[SteelTown]

Just to recap what is the Rapid Transit Office suppose to submit in September to council? Pre-EA LRT plans and financial cost?

[DC83]

^^ I think this session is for approval of current (estimated) routes as well as the possibility to expand routes.

They'll likely report to council that a) there is still strong support for LRT for both A & B Lines, and b) There is strong support for adding more lines/extending current route ideas.

We'll see tho. The survey was due yesterday... did everyone submit theirs

[SteelTown]

Indeedy I did haha

I was thinking perhaps they'll show a different proposed route for the A-Line? Instead of going up the James Mountain Access and take Clairmount instead.

[matt602]

From transit.toronto.on.ca:

Hamilton rapid transit open house, July 28

The City of Hamilton will host a public information meeting on its final proposals for rapid transit service on two crosstown lines on Monday, July 28.

On June 25, Hamilton City Council authorized staff to proceed with light rail transit (LRT) instead of bus rapid transit for the project. They also recommended that staff examine using the Claremont Access instead of James Mountain Road for the north-south line when it climbs the Niagara Escarpment.

You can review the latest proposal and offer your comments and ideas by attending the open house on July 28, or by completing the on-line survey here.

The July 28 information meeting takes place from 11:30 a.m. until 1:30 p.m. at:

Lloyd D. Jackson Square,
Rooftop, beside the stage.

City Council will approve the final plans for the LRT at its meeting in September. If Council approves the plans, the City will submit them to Metrolinx to include funding for the project in its next capital budget.

[DC83]

^^ Awesome. Thanks, Matt. I didn't even know about this open house!?

I love when non-Hamiltonians talk about the city. hehe 'cross-town'. I dunno bout the A-Line!? 'The Niagara Escarpment'? Hello Toronto, it's called The Mountain HAHAHA

EDIT: wtf!? Who has a public info meeting on a Monday between 11:30am & 1:00pm!? I have to work

[SteelTown]

Wow an open house next Monday, didn't even know. It's on the rooftop of JS too! Cool I'll pop down then.....wait! I just noticed the hours, crappy hours! I'll be at work. BOO! Couldn't they do this after work hours?

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by matt602

The July 28 information meeting takes place from 11:30 a.m. until 1:30 p.m. at:

Real convenient for anyone with a job . . .

[omro]

The hours suggest that they don't really want public opinion at all.

Unless people can take time off work or pop over in their lunch break, the only people who can go are the retired, unemployed and stay-at-home crowd.

Hardly a great cross section of public opinion.

Could they already have made up their minds and the open house is merely for show, "We had an open house, no one came and voiced a different opinion, so you got what we decided you'd get"?

Cynical, me?

[SteelTown]

There's already been a few open houses for routes and suggestions even online form to fill out if you didn't attend the open house.

This Monday's open house isn't up for suggestion, it's just showing the FINAL LRT plans.

[SteelTown]

I should be quick to mention that no this isn't the FINAL LRT plans, it's just the final pre-EA LRT plans.

After this stage it'll go off to EA for tops of 8 months and then again some more open houses.

EA = Environmental Assessment

[DC83]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Real convenient for anyone with a job . . .

I emailed our RTFS friends, this was my response:

Hi David,

Thanks for your email. The Transit Toronto website is correct, the event on the Jackson Square Rooftop will take place on Monday July 28 from 11:30 am - 1:30 pm and is geared towards capturing those in the downtown core who live and work near Jackson Square over their lunch hour. This is being held in addition to the agressive public consultation that has taken place over the past month and is being advertised in both the Hamilton Spectator and community newspapers as well as in the mall.

Typically public consultation over the summer months is difficult in terms of evening meetings due to people's schedules. Staff are trying to capture people at more flexible times, ie. over their lunch hour.

If you require more information, please feel free to email us. Otherwise please stay tuned for updates on the September Public Works Committee and Council Meetings which will offer a summary of public consultation results over the summer.

Best Regards,
Rapid Transit Study Team

[raisethehammer]

I hadn't heard of this either.
I hope they continue to try to bring a couple of Light Rail cars to Gore Park like they were planning earlier this summer.
That would be awesome and really get people jazzed up about this.

[hamiltonguy]

What is everyone thinking for stop spacing?

I was thinking this?

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=Potential%20Hamilton%20LRT&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

[omro]

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

What is everyone thinking for stop spacing?

I was thinking this?

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=Potential%20Hamilton%20LRT&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

The link doesn't work directly, you have to press search.

Two maps pop up.

Is it definite that there will be an LRT on both Main and King?

[raisethehammer]

I think B-Line is bang on.
A-Line you'd probably need to stick to street names that are familiar like Cannon, YOrk etc...

Some on Upper James I've never heard of.

Also, I don't think LRT will go to the airport...not for several years. It'd be a waste of money. End the line at Rymal and use buses for the rest.

[DC83]

Lookin good, Hamiltonguy. I love that everyone's getting involved making their own System Maps n whatnot. I made one a cpl months ago but recently deleted it by accident :s

RTH, when did they say they were going to place Light Rail cars in Gore Park? That idea is AMAZING!! I'd even say put one @ Eastgate as well (there's enough room) and get the 'burbanites to notice too! Wow!

I believe they'll push for LRT all the way to the Airport since the line is paid for. If they're planning on extending the B-Line east & west of their original terminals, I definately can't imagine the City not pushing for a complete link to the Airport. It may not be necessary in 2008, but who knows about 2015!?