PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS - Page 39

We Got Five · #**761** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 3:25 AM**

Are you kidding me with this coverage. I did not expect this...

Talk about a rally killer. I seriously thought the media would get behind this project.

Clarke's comment scared me...

"Clarke told Fox29 News late Tuesday afternoon that he is generally supportive of The American Commerce Center but wants lots of public input and may want the design of the project tweaked, perhaps scaled back a bit."

Fumo's comment will cost me sleep...I guess he wants us to remain a tier 2 or tier 3 city forever.

"It is time for us to embrace our identity, celebrate our stature as one of America's special places to live or work, and end this silly game of believing that we can be better than New York or Chicago if only we had taller buildings than they have. We don't need to play that game."

Don098 · #**762** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 3:58 AM**

If the negativity is hurting your eyes and ears, Phillyskyline has a tremendous article about the progression of Philly's skyline culminating with an ACC feature to soothe them.

Philadelcago · #**763** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 4:06 AM**

This should keep me busy for a little while... Plan Philly posted an hour long video and lengthy article about the commission meeting:

http://www.planphilly.com/node/3532

logansquare · #**764** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 4:20 AM**

Guys and gals,

Clarke and Fumo are cut out of the same mold. Clarke will go whichever way the wind (or money or votes) is blowing... He must be feeling terribly conflicted. new donor source and voting source (ACC) vs. Kennedy House votes

Both are simply responding to the vocal (well-organized, very motivated) minority in the Kennedy House, as Philadelphia politicians have done for years and years.

The ideal solution is exactly what lsn4acc has done. Supporters need to get behind this and continue to contact the mayors office, the Planning Commission, Clarke's office, and Farnese's office. They need to hear that there are plenty of supporters both in the neighborhood and throughout the city and region.

Don098 · #**765** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 4:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logansquare

Guys and gals,

Clarke and Fumo are cut out of the same mold. Clarke will go whichever way the wind (or money or votes) is blowing... He must be feeling terribly conflicted. new donor source and voting source (ACC) vs. Kennedy House votes

Both are simply responding to the vocal (well-organized, very motivated) minority in the Kennedy House, as Philadelphia politicians have done for years and years.

The ideal solution is exactly what lsn4acc has done. Supporters need to get behind this and continue to contact the mayors office, the Planning Commission, Clarke's office, and Farnese's office. They need to hear that there are plenty of supporters both in the neighborhood and throughout the city and region.

So as I'm watching this never-ending All-Star game (not like it matters to the Phils if the NL wins the world series home-field advantage because they aren't making it out of the first round with this crappy pitching) and keeping up with the discussion...what if PhillySkyline, PlanPhilly, DAG, lsn4acc, and say Penn Praxis got together to organize a highly orchestrated, well-educated avalanche of thoughtful, heavily researched letters and petitions to the PPC, Clarke, et. al. and load every meeting from here on out? That kind of support would drown out the Kennedy House residents, and show that if Philly wants to compete in the real world, they're going to need us younger, more fresh and forward-thinking generations to stay alive and relevant. If we're going to become America's Next Great City, this kind of development is a mandatory pre-requisite.

P.S. If Fumo is going to try to pull another stunt like today, I think it would be smart to have The Nut behind curtain number 2...what is Ed Rendell's stance on this btw?

BuildItUp · #**766** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 5:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyscraper

as I've said before, skyscraper economics 101 dictates that recessions/depressions are good times to build skyscrapers because labor is typically cheaper, materials are slightly cheaper (although labor is the governing cost)and because of the length of time it takes to build the building it will hopefully be completed as the economy is rebounding and needs buildings like this to accomodate that recovery (that is, expanded buisinesses, more residents, and tourists needing hotels, etc.).
the skyscrapers completed in Philadelphia in the late 80s/early 90s are testimony that boom times are bad times to build trophies like the mellon building and the bell atlantic building. they were occupied by their namesake companies but few others when they opened. when the local economy went sour in the early/mid 90s, those buildings did not fill up much (I don't have the exact occupancy numbers, just going by my recollection).

I would agree with your skyscraper economics 101 in a traditional sense. However, if you factor in the building boom and demands in Middle East and Asia, the price of materials are actually increasing instead of slightly decreasing. In addition, the cost of shipping materials is not coming down anytime soon, plus the weakness of the dollar means importing foreign materials will actually cost more not less. Hopefully, the credit crisis will end soon but unfortunately I think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. This proposal has a lot of challenges ahead of them, but I do hope and wish it gets built.

tranceclubbinphilly · #**767** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 7:23 AM**

"It is time for us to embrace our identity, celebrate our stature as one of America's special places to live or work, and end this silly game of believing that we can be better than New York or Chicago if only we had taller buildings than they have. We don't need to play that game."

This should really bug us. If you simply look at history, we (Philadelphia) were once the greatest city in this country. From Wikipedia: "However Philadelphia was still the largest city in the United States and a financial and cultural center. New York City soon surpassed Philadelphia in population, but construction of roads, canals, and railroads helped turn Philadelphia into the United States' first major industrial city." Its people with Fumos attitude that can be partly to blame for why our city is not on the same scale as Chicago and NY. I equate this to being 3rd in a race for better jobs and over all better quality of life and just giving up, after all its ok to work at McDonalds forever right...

PhillyRising · #**768** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 10:30 AM**

What is Fumo afraid of...that the tower will cast shadows on his precious mansion that he can't get rid of in Fairmount?

Fumo will be gone soon and will have no say in the matter.

If I were mayor, I would have told the bluehairs in the Sterling and Kennedy House that it was their buildings that are offensive and would try to have them condemned. I hate those buildings.

We Got Five · #**769** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 11:57 AM**

But talk is cheap -

"Fool's gold," "ridiculous," "atrocity," said state Sen. Vince Fumo, who announced that Gov. Rendell would help him smother the proposal by denying developers tax breaks and state financial aid."

I am in no way a Rendell fan, but I find it extremely hard to believe he doesn't support this project. Especially since he apparently supports River City.

theWatusi · #**770** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 12:03 PM**

Direct links to the presentation video:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1670076502/bclid1659850472/bctid1670074594

And the public comment:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1670076506/bclid1659879585/bctid1670053642

We Got Five · #**771** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 12:20 PM**

But talk is cheap -

"Fool's gold," "ridiculous," "atrocity," said state Sen. Vince Fumo, who announced that Gov. Rendell would help him smother the proposal by denying developers tax breaks and state financial aid."

I am in no way a Rendell fan, but I find it extremely hard to believe he doesn't support this project. Especially since he apparently supports River City.

KillerIman · #**772** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 3:08 PM**

so that criminal wants to single-handedly kill this project. unbelievable.

theWatusi · #**773** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 4:05 PM**

Rendell has said that anything under 500ft (for this site) would not get the tax breaks.

Fumo is Fullo shitto

Don098 · #**774** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 5:16 PM**

Whatever anyone does regarding the American Commerce Center, DO NOT write to Vince Fumo and plea with him. Doing this will lend credibility to his senial, delusional mind and feed his power-hungry, corrupt appetite. He is the type of bully that will only become emboldened with strong reactions from his enemies, so do not play his game and validate the stunt he pulled yesterday. He is in F-all mode because he knows he's going down in flames. Pleading with him will backfire and be counter-productive to this process. We will be playing right into his hands.

TechTalkGuy · #**775** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 5:55 PM**

It's not too late to add additional floors to accommodate a restaurant and observation deck.

Swinefeld · #**776** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 6:22 PM**

Vince Fumo is a toothless tiger, and a brainless one too if you ask me. He is all bark and no bite. Nutter already expressed an interest in getting this built and his little schpiel was nothing more than placating the blue hairs. Let's not underestimate them though. They may be old but they are organized and surprisingly energetic. Plus they have lots of free time on their hands.

I promised pictures so....

This was the hot, crowded hallway which I had to wait in before they finally threw open the doors. If it weren't for the Kennedy House people crowding the meeting, there would have been ample seating.

Finally inside.

The ghostly specter of Fumo.

"I'm not opposed to tall buildings." My ass! Your jail cell is waiting.

The presentation.

One of the many testimonials.

Finally, the model. By the way, what's the deal with that new Poland Springs Tower.

And now some new renderings that were part of the presentation.

Building Summary:
Office Space: 1.37 million s.f.
Hotel Rooms: 327
Retail Above Grade: .26 million s.f.
Retail Below Grade: .04 million s.f.

Public Space: Exceeds 30% of Net Lot Area
-------------------------------------------------------------
Features of Public Benefits:
1. Active retail space, located at grade, below grade and above grade.

2. A minimum of 30% public space that meets the current requirements of the Zoning Code as well as additional public spaces located at multiple levels of the building above grade.

3. New direct connections to the public transit concourse and an extension of the concourse, including connections into the building as well as vertical integration of the concourse to 18th Street, through the site and to 19th Street.

4. Public museum and/or gallery space (not for profit) including an open sculpture garden.

5. Public restrooms.

6. Enclosed, off-street loading.

7. Parking spaces located below grade.

8. Green building design strategies to attain a LEED Gold Certification.

Sorry, but this building should be a no-brainer.

SJPhillyBoy · #**777** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 6:46 PM**

Excellent post Swinefeld. The best one in this thread so far! Much of this should be in the first post of this thread.

UCityPhila · #**778** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 6:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swinefeld

I WANT IT NOW!

Don098 · #**779** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 6:51 PM**

Agreed...round of applause for Swinefeld!

BuildItUp · #**780** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 6:55 PM**

How can anyone with the right state of mind and pro-Philadelphia/pro-progress oppose this magnificent proposal. Boston is begging for a thousand footers and we have idiotic scums like Fumo opposing it. Anyway, thank you for sharing the updates.