PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS - Page 38

shakman · #**741** Posted **Jul 15, 2008, 4:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyscraper

as I've said before, skyscraper economics 101 dictates that recessions/depressions are good times to build skyscrapers because labor is typically cheaper, materials are slightly cheaper (although labor is the governing cost)and because of the length of time it takes to build the building it will hopefully be completed as the economy is rebounding and needs buildings like this to accomodate that recovery (that is, expanded buisinesses, more residents, and tourists needing hotels, etc.).
the skyscrapers completed in Philadelphia in the late 80s/early 90s are testimony that boom times are bad times to build trophies like the mellon building and the bell atlantic building. they were occupied by their namesake companies but few others when they opened. when the local economy went sour in the early/mid 90s, those buildings did not fill up much (I don't have the exact occupancy numbers, just going by my recollection).

I can where you are coming from on this, but I would have to disagree with you about the materials and labor costs being slightly cheaper. I work on the PM side of the construction industry and the both of these are definitely not cheaper during this downturn...

Late1 · #**742** Posted **Jul 15, 2008, 7:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38

Okay, so you save energy on lighting during daylight hours, but how do you heat it? Are there ceiling fans to keep the heat from being 10 feet above your head?
It seems to me that more energy will be spent pushing air around than would be needed for lighting. How is overall energy use lower?

That doesn't even include the energy needed to manufacture 6-7 additional feet of structure for every floor.

My (unprofessional) understanding is that heating isn't so much an issue, all things considered. The building generates loads of heat on its own, and is basically a greenhouse with all that glass. Yes, in the coldest weather you could have an issue with the heat rising to the ceiling, but for the majority of the year, your effort is going to be trying to keep the interior cool, not warm. That's where the high ceilings help out (in addition to letting more light in) - the hot air rises above head-level so that the occupants don't have to run the a/c so much.

theWatusi · #**743** Posted **Jul 15, 2008, 11:13 PM**

News report (with video) from Action News on today's meeting.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6266186

Fcking nimbys

cubanChris · #**744** Posted **Jul 15, 2008, 11:33 PM**

Their rendering seem woefully wrong to anyone else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjawho

Otherwise, what a bunch of whiners.

theWatusi · #**745** Posted **Jul 15, 2008, 11:36 PM**

Yeah I guess the building is too tall to fit on their stock skyline photo.

Don098 · #**746** Posted **Jul 15, 2008, 11:51 PM**

Vince Fumo can roll over and die. Good luck trying to fight it from jail, —!&*#. NIMBYS.....grrrr....God, these Philadelphians NEED TO GET OUT AND SEE THE WORLD! Good thing someone with just a little bit more leverage, Mr. Nutter, is on board lol.

Philadelcago · #**747** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 12:05 AM**

More coverage on Fox:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/pages/H...ocale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

My favorite quote, from Annette Glazer of the LSNA: "We don't need another huge monster" -- yeah that scary huge monster that would bring so many scary jobs and scary parks and scary public amenities. It's frightening, let me tell you.

The only positive note, was that at least it seemed that all of those that were opposed to the development will either be in jail (Fumo) or have passed away (the rest of the opposers) by the time this starts getting more serious. Funny that the one guy interviewed who was in favor of the project was the only one under 80.

Ninjawho · #**748** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 12:25 AM**

What a load of horse —...

Seriously, Fumo saying he's going to fight "this monstrosity" and the other whiners interviewed, has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard/seen. Are these people on crack? ANY BUILDING LARGER THAN STERLING IS GOING TO BLOCK THE FRICK'N VIEWS YOU RETARDS. So we can only have a building smaller than the commie block on that lot...

I have an idea...how about make it into a park. I'm sure they'll love their new neighbors, the homeless and drug addicted that will call that park home. Just like they do Love Park and Logan Circle...

HOW CAN YOU ARGUE AGAINST A PARK PEOPLE!!!! THAT'S WAY BETTER THAN ACC!!!

Don098 · #**749** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 12:53 AM**

Did anyone actually attend the meeting that can provide any type of minutes outside of the sensationalist news coverage going for the story? I'm still upset that I couldn't attend, and I'd like to hear how the people that actually have power received the presentation/what was actually presented, i.e. the planning commission.

Swinefeld · #**750** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 1:05 AM**

I went to today's PPC meeting. The biggest problem was the old folks from Kennedy House showed up in force, now doubt bussed in by KH's anti-tower president. There were so many old farts at that meeting you'd thought they were handing out free Depends underwear. Because of them, that the meeting was standing room only and very difficult to get in. But fortunately there were enough people on the pro-tower side to offset the blue hairs from Kennedy House. The basis of the meeting was to address concerns from the locals and to discuss the zoning variance needed to change that plot of land from C4 (150 feet) to C5.

And then Vince Fumo showed up. Like a ghostly specter of Philadelphia politics past. I'm sooooooo glad his time is at an end. Vince Fumo's pay-to-play, strong-arming, back room dealing, shady politics is what is now holding Philadelphia back. He is the old way. His is the way that Mike Nutter swore to wipe out. One can only hope he fades quietly into the... jail cell. When he strolled into the room, the blue hair's faces brightened. I have to tell you, I'm glad he's on the other guy's side. Soon he will be part of Philadelphia's political past and completely irrelevant.

As for the media, they seemed very interested in interviewing the NIMBY side while ignoring the pro-development side. I guess that makes for a better news story.

The testimonials (about 20 in all) were pretty evenly split between the pro and anti side with a few neutrals. Even though there was to be no applause the anti side (blue hairs) did clap after several testimonials. How juvenile.

The overall presentation was very professional and ran somewhat long (it was over 40 minutes longer than anticipated). I left the meeting feeling somewhat optimistic about the ACC Tower's future. I hope I'm right. Next meeting is in September.

Pictures tomorrow!

Late1 · #**751** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 1:11 AM**

^Yeah, me too. The Fox29 article says, "An overflow crowd spilled into the hallway outside the hearing room, shouting down the few residents who favor the project."

Is that really how it was?

edit: thanks for answering that, Swinefeld. So basically, the media did its usual sh!t job of covering the story.

TechTalkGuy · #**752** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 1:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Late1

So basically, the media did its usual sh!t job of covering the story.

Same thing happened years ago against Lewis Epstein's rallies against the Freedom Tower (he dubbed it as the "Fraud 'em Tower").

I used to attend his rallies for taller skyscrapers to replace the twin towers, but when the plans for the Freedom Tower added additional super towers to the site, I decided to go support the future.

Let us hope that the future for the Philly skyline looks up!

Swinefeld · #**753** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 1:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Late1

^Yeah, me too. The Fox29 article says, "An overflow crowd spilled into the hallway outside the hearing room, shouting down the few residents who favor the project."

Is that really how it was?

edit: thanks for answering that, Swinefeld. So basically, the media did its usual sh!t job of covering the story.

Werd. Bruce Gordon asked me why I was opposed to the tower. I said, "sorry, but I'm not against it, I'm for it." He chuckled and said, "don't be sorry." to which I replied, "well, I'm not sorry at all."

As for the overflow crowd, yes, that was true. There were several agenda items before they got to the sticky issue of the ACC Tower's zoning, traffic, and quality-of-life impact. I'd say it took about half an hour to get through items 1 through 6 to get to the ACC Tower discussion. Once the ACC Tower came up, they threw open the doors and the overflow crowd crammed in. I was part of the overflow crowd, waiting in a hot hallway, not knowing if or when I would get in. Needless to say, I'm glad I waited. I even got a seat eventually.

And NO ONE shouted down anyone at the meeting or in the hallway. That part is pure —.

It's interesting how this tower is pitting Old Philadelphia with the new breed of Philadelphian. The average age of the anti-tower people had to be 70. That coupled with the fact that their hero is the indicted (139 counts!) Vince Fumo, clearly this is the past that we can do without.

SJPhillyBoy · #**754** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 1:38 AM**

Swinefeld is in the Fox video!

I really do not understand the opposition to this project. This project is unbelievable. Fumo is so out of touch, thank goodness he will be gone soon. I think his health issues have impacted his common sense. These people cannot even comprehend the positive impact such a development WILL have, nor do thay have any preception of the city's future and what is benefical to that future.

SJPhillyBoy · #**755** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 1:43 AM**

This building is seriously unbelievable in every way, shape and form. Look at these many excellent renderings...

http://lsn4acc.com/Renderings.php

SJPhillyBoy · #**756** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 1:51 AM**

What a complete horse's —?!?

http://www.kyw1060.com/Fumo-Speaks-Against-Center-City---Super-Scraper--/2603033

Even KYW is only covering one side of the story. The media is terribly biased. How about some quality, unbiased news?

TechTalkGuy · #**757** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 1:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJPhillyBoy

This building is seriously unbelievable in every way, shape and form. Look at these many excellent renderings...

http://lsn4acc.com/Renderings.php

Excellent !!

I would love to work in that building!

Ninjawho · #**758** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 2:00 AM**

Just stop. SJPhillBoy. Stop with your silly nonsense. Those renderings of an incredible pedestrian to building front experience are mere fabrication made by the devil himself! Meant to deceive innocent blue hairs into believnyg this is a beneficial proposal for our city.

Just make it a park already! or better yet! an asphalt park! Also known as a parking lot! We wouldn't even have to do any work to make that happen! It's already there!

skyscraper · #**759** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 2:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakman

I can where you are coming from on this, but I would have to disagree with you about the materials and labor costs being slightly cheaper. I work on the PM side of the construction industry and the both of these are definitely not cheaper during this downturn...

not yet, the downturn is still pretty fresh. wait until it drags on a few more quarters.

Don098 · #**760** Posted **Jul 16, 2008, 3:10 AM**

Now that the initial excitement has died down, looking at the renderings over and over is starting make me get bored with the design. Now don't get me wrong, I think the skeleton of the design is tremendous, but I'm not crazy about the 1) protruding lines along the window edges from floor to floor 2) the color paneling on the inside of the hotel and retail portion, and 3) the spire which is slowly starting to bug me. So I'm hoping that while this fight continues, that perhaps a redesign comes along...but I'm getting really picky. This would still become the crown jewel of Philadelphia either way...but I can't help but look at the proposals for other skyscrapers around the world and feel a little bit jipped on the design side for a building of this height and stature. Does anyone else quietly feel this way?