Retail News

[omro]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

The Downtown Hamilton site, amazingly, does not seem to contain a directory of stores and services, which seems like a significant oversight for a BIA. That's obviously transferrable.

That's one thing then that should be addresssed, perhaps an email/letter to an appropriate person? Clicking on the main map and getting "this site is just a demo" at the top doesn't look great there. Is the site still a work in progress or has it been around for a while?

Odd that the Hamilton site is an .org rather than a .ca or a .com - I wonder if that really matters.

You're right though, that's something that can be transferred.

It's interesting when you can make direct comparisons. It shows that Hamilton still has a lot of untapped potential.

[omro]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

no, none of those downtowns are better.
in fact, all 3 are clinging to their downtown casino's as the only real drawing card. St Kitts is the 'nicest' although fairly dead.
Windsor is nothing special and Brantford is downright lousy.
Hamilton is doing better than all 3 (which ain't saying much).

Considering they all have a lower average income, it's "good" they aren't better, otherwise it means that Hamilton's downtown is doing something majorly wrong. Infact this all proves that it's on par.

However, if Kitchener has a much better downtown and only a small increase in average income, then it's doing something right which Hamilton would need to emulate or improve upon. How does Kitchener compare? Better/worse?

[thistleclub]

Re: Windsor/St. Catharines/Brantford
My analysis was only cursory, but then that's how most people use the internet. But yes, the absence of a directory or dynamic retail map is a blind spot. And of course there are familiar patterns, such as Windsor's abundance of discount and convenience stores or St. Catharines' wealth of call centres.

Re: Kitchener
My hypothetical suspicion is that two universities virtually on top of each other in neighbouring Waterloo might have something to do with the numbers.

[flar]

Downtown Kitchener isn't that great, and is looked down on by KW residents. Uptown Waterloo is the main attraction there. Brantford has the worst downtown in Canada. Windsor, London, and St. Kitts are average I'd say. Guelph has a nice downtown.

[omro]

Originally Posted by flar

Downtown Kitchener isn't that great, and is looked down on by KW residents. Uptown Waterloo is the main attraction there. Brantford has the worst downtown in Canada. Windsor, London, and St. Kitts are average I'd say. Guelph has a nice downtown.

Would you say Kitchener is better or worse than Hamilton?
Do you have the average income stat for Guelph?

[flar]

Downtown Hamilton actually has more than any of these downtowns--more offices, more retail, more people on the street, more museums, theatres and other attractions--merely because it is a much larger city. I think it's hard to compare because it's really apples to oranges. Jackson Square alone probably has more retail than all of downtown Kitchener for instance.



Income figures for Guelph:
median 30,078
average 38,059

Places like Guelph or Waterloo have a lot of white collar jobs. Places like Hamilton, Windsor and Brantford are industrial cities.

[flar]

Actually, you can judge for yourself, I've done photo tours of the downtowns of most of these cities. London is the only one that has a large downtown with office towers and comparable size to Hamilton, but even it's smaller.

Waterloo: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=154357

St. Catharines: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=137693

Guelph: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=141483

Kitchener: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=132428

Hamilton: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=144966

London: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=125840

Brantford: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=123197

[raisethehammer]

Hamilton has FAR more white collar jobs than Windsor and Brantford.
Yes, we're an industrial city, but the mix is getting pretty good here with many other jobs (again, you'll recall the stats showing the good level of income among Hamiltonians who work in Hamilton). Some of that is indstrial, but white collar has grown in recent years and will continue to with new developments at the General, Mac and Innovation Park.

[omro]

So yet again, as always with Hamilton, the bones are there.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by omro

Would you say Kitchener is better or worse than Hamilton?
Do you have the average income stat for Guelph?

For one all the other downtowns are smaller than Hamilton's downtown, so comparisons are very much like comparing a McIntosh Apple to a Fuji Apple to a Golden Delicious. All are apples but each is distinct.

I used to live in Kitchener, but it's been a while since I really looked at downtown. But here are some points on how things are better than in downtown Hamilton (there are other points on why it's worse).

Walper Terrace Hotel - Old graceful hotel, Hamilton lacks an operational historic hotel
Kaufman Lofts - Old factory converted to lofts (within 10 years of ceasing to be a factory, so is didn't sit as an eyesore for years). Lofts sold out.
Old King Centre - Changed to Manulife Square - Taking an old marginal mall and bringing in office workers to revitalize the area (with private money)
Two-Way Conversion - Some major one way streets, (Duke & Charles) changed to 2 way streets years ago.
New City Hall - One that is operational, with an ice skating rink in winter. Not a city hall whose renovation is stalled (some to get going agian) and surrounded by rental temporary fencing.
Established Bus Terminal - Built between 15 - 20 years, or so, ago

All things some in Hamilton would "kill for"...........

[raisethehammer]

true enough, although I could do a list pages long of things we have here that they would 'kill for' in Kitchener.
And for what's it's worth, we have many more loft residences in Hamilton than Kitchener does.

[omro]

Would there be any benefit in knocking down the existing Hamilton Central Shopping Centre thingy (Eaton Centre as it's called on google maps) and building something more attractive and better on it's site with more office space, retail space, entertainment space and an inbuilt transport hub of sorts, a much taller multilevel structure?

A downtown nexus if you will.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by omro

Would there be any benefit in knocking down the existing Hamilton Central Shopping Centre thingy (Eaton Centre as it's called on google maps) and building something more attractive and better on it's site with more office space, retail space, entertainment space and an inbuilt transport hub of sorts, a much taller multilevel structure?

A downtown nexus if you will.

Sorry, all the government money was spent on the Lister Block which will become a vibrant hub of 9-to-5 weekday business. And there isn't a developer in existance who will risk the money.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

true enough, although I could do a list pages long of things we have here that they would 'kill for' in Kitchener.
And for what's it's worth, we have many more loft residences in Hamilton than Kitchener does.

Please do provide some of the loft residential buildings in the city.

I'm curious, as I haven't seen large scale conversions of old factories around the city. There's one across from the nightclub (I don't remember which street Rebecca/King William.....), but I'm not familiar with others.

[raisethehammer]

Margaret Lofts
The Annex Lofts
Allenby Lofts
Stone Lofts
Garfield Lofts
Alanson Lofts
Core Lofts

Many other projects have involved building loft apartments above storefronts etc.... but the above ones come to mind and larger scale loft projects.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Margaret Lofts
The Annex Lofts
Allenby Lofts
Stone Lofts
Garfield Lofts
Alanson Lofts
Core Lofts

Many other projects have involved building loft apartments above storefronts etc.... but the above ones come to mind and larger scale loft projects.

But really, no more or less than in Kitchener. Keeping in mind Phase 1 of the Kaufman lofts had 155 units, and Phase 2 has 115 units.

I'd hazard a guess that one project has more units than the ones above combined. Anyways we are off topic of the thread which I believe is downtown retail.

[hammergirl]

Core Lofts has 101 Units

The Annex has 40

[Millstone]

I've always liked St. Catharines' downtown. They too have a plan to put back streets to 2-way; but the first phase, Ontario St, is now delayed because people want bike lanes included in the project.

[adam]

We need bike lanes on Main and King

[raisethehammer]

don't even go there...I'm happy with LRT. hell will freeze before this city does bike lanes AND LRT on King or Main.