Lister Block | ? | 6 fl | Renovation

[SteelTown]

The $25 million is the cost to just keep the building standing for decades more. I don't think many grasp the true cost just to renovate the building. The cost to repair goes up as the building gets neglected over the years.

A bulk of the cost will be gutting floors 3 and up and redo it all entirely over again, floors have collapsed on top of each other. Arcade repair (this is where I would keep my eyes on - gut and redo the arcade or repair it?) and exterior repair, the terra cotta alone is probably responsible for a few million to repair.

[matt602]

I would assume costs will be highest in the basement and main floor, and the fire damaged parts of the 2nd and third floors. None of the floors have collapsed though. The basement will require a LOT of work, the rot and mold down there is absolutely horrible. The exterior will also cost a fair bit. The floors up from the third floor are relatively in the same condition as 15 years ago with a lot of peeling paint and smashed windows.

[SteelTown]

Mayor saved Lister deal: LIUNA

July 01, 2008
By Nicole MacIntyre
The Hamilton Spectator

LIUNA says it changed its mind on the city’s Lister Block deal after tempers calmed and business sense took over.

Union vice-president Joe Mancinelli largely credits Fred Eisenberger with saving the $25 million deal many thought was dead.

“The mayor called and said ‘how can we save this?’” Mancinelli told the Spectator.

He said the mayor kept calling over the weekend, slowing convincing him and partner Hi-Rise to go ahead with the deal. At the same time, Mancinelli said his own people were exploring other options and realized a private deal wouldn’t make sense financially.

“The mayor gave us a sense of a true partnership,” said Mancinelli. “We’re showing an incredible leap of good faith.”

Yesterday morning the union returned a signed deal, which will see the downtown landmark renovated into city offices by 2012. The agreement came just hours before the province was set to take back a $7 million grant for the project.

“It’s alive. It’s very much alive,” Mayor Fred Eisenberger said of the deal. “I think it’s a very positive step. It’s good for city.”

LIUNA and partner Hi-Rise agreed to council’s demand for a $1 million guarantee that there will be a second phase that generates at least $600,000 in taxes.

Just last week, Mancinelli said he wouldn’t agree to the condition. He criticized council’s “unfair negotiations posture.”

The developers had offered a lower guarantee, but it was rejected by council last Wednesday. After the meeting, LIUNA said it wouldn’t offer any guarantee at all.

"We've compromised enough," Mancinelli said at the time. “They killed the deal.”

Though the city’s deal is signed, the developers must still meet several conditions, such as a heritage plan.

[DC83]

^^ AKA 'The City Calling our Bluff Saved Lister' hehe

[raisethehammer]

Joe doesn't know whether he's coming or going. One day it's "easier and quicker to do it privately", the next its "a private deal wouldn't make sense financially". in other words, a private deal wouldn't line their pockets flush with cash.
Good job by Mayor Fred.

[HAMRetrofit]

Finally some reinvestment into downtown Hamilton. Great to see the city putting its money where its mouth is. Can't wait to see phase one and two of this project complete. Hope the design plans for phase two goes above and beyond.

Anyways the nicest thing will be having a restored Lister. Just imagine James street with the building complete. This is a major step in the right direction.

[realcity]

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

Finally some reinvestment into downtown Hamilton.

This very incorrect comment has been repeated too many times over the last week. Finally some investment? Because LIUNA gets a subsidy to do something? Give me a break.

Recent investment DOWNTOWN
1. Chateau Royale
2. London Taphouse ($3 million dollars in renovation without no free money).
3. Court House
4. Terraces on King
5. Gowlings

etc etc etc.

[realcity]

How much of the $25 million is purchase price and how much is renovation?

[realcity]

Originally Posted by matt602

So what exactly is "restoration" then? Knocking everything down to the concrete and steel structural supports? Will the details of this be decided in the coming months?

Exactly. It'll look like the inside of a supermarket without the aisles before they start the renovation.

This deal sucks. It'll be a replication without saying so. It's just semantics, LIUNA will build the replicate that they wanted.

No retail arcade? I say tear it down then, without the retail arcade, it's the only thing that was unique, interesting and important to this building.

[SteelTown]

$25 million is part of the renovation and purchase of the building. The other I think $3.5 million is to upgrade the building into office space.

Phase two has to generate I think something like $600,000 in new taxes a year so really the city can use that income to reduce the cost of the mortgage. Think the mortgage payment each year is $1 million. Also have rent money from retail. So really this is a good investment in the long term.

[realcity]

So what happens to the Right House? LIUNA will probably lobby to have the Tim Shithortons moved to Lister from Right House as well. Then call that retail.

We'll be having this same debate with Right House in 15 years. Trying to save a vacant building and demo from neglect because without the City as a tennant and Kelly Advertising moving out years ago, there's nothing left. The retail arcade similar to Lister has never attracted tennants and this building is now doomed to be vacant for a long time. Thanks for nothing.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by realcity

So what happens to the Right House? LIUNA will probably lobby to have the Tim Shithortons moved to Lister from Right House as well. Then call that retail.

Tim Horton's in Jackson Square is closer. Wouldn't be a bad idea. Although I'm partial to anything but Tim Horton's.

[IronWarrior]

Originally Posted by Millstone

Tim Horton's in Jackson Square is closer. Wouldn't be a bad idea. Although I'm partial to anything but Tim Horton's.

No!!! please no more Tim Horton's..lol! god that coffees sooooo awful!!! I can't understand why people wait in line for that sewage! Man! there is sooo many better places to buy a cup of coffee downtown with hardly any lineup!

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by IronWarrior

No!!! please no more Tim Horton's..lol! god that coffees sooooo awful!!! I can't understand why people wait in line for that sewage! Man! there is sooo many better places to buy a cup of coffee downtown with hardly any lineup!

That's why I walk right past Tim Ho's to Country Style in the morning, much less busy. JS Timmy's even has a 'velvet rope' -type deal outside to properly herd the cattle into a line.

[matt602]

Tim Hortons is pathetic. Especially the one at Jackson Square. I laugh at everyone standing in line for probably up to 20 minutes just to get a cup of black acid. Country Style of course has almost no line at all and offers a cup of coffee that doesn't taste like road tar.

I guess Tim Hortons is the "Hamilton thing" to do, so that's why everyone lines up there like brain dead robots.

[raisethehammer]

yea, Hortons sucks big time.
PAM's in JS is also good - and has 2 locations.
Other good coffee joints near King/James are Bread and Roses, the AGH Cafe, Infusions and Maxims.

[screenplaying]

I rolled up the rim and found irony.

Six (6) Timmy bashes in a row! You should all be pelted mercilessly with timbits the next time you pass by one of the locations.

Brainstumper for the day... if that guy Stinson were ever seen with a cup of Timmy's (either drinking or asking for change) your reaction would be...

[matt602]

If I were pelted by Tim Bits every time I pass a Tim Hortons in Hamilton, I'd be saturated in powdered sugar after 4 blocks.

I would still think Tim Hortons were crap even if the pope himself were drinking it.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by realcity

This very incorrect comment has been repeated too many times over the last week. Finally some investment? Because LIUNA gets a subsidy to do something? Give me a break.

Recent investment DOWNTOWN
1. Chateau Royale
2. London Taphouse ($3 million dollars in renovation without no free money).
3. Court House
4. Terraces on King
5. Gowlings

etc etc etc.

London Taphouse & Terraces on King are from 2007.
Sopinka courthouse reno ($53M!) wrapped in '99. Dunno about the Family Court.
Gowlings reno (approx $3M) wrapped in 2005, I think.

Also...

Cityview Terrace (2006?)
$5.6M ($940K city loan) into 51 condo units at Caroline and Napier
Chateau Royale (2002-2005?)
$17M ($3.4M city loan) into 197 condo units @ 135 James South
Rebecca Street Lofts (2005)
$4M ($800K city loan) into 40 units @ 11 Rebecca
Core Lofts (2004)
$14.1M into 103 units at 66 Bay Street
Staybridge Suites (2004)
$12M ($2M city loan) into 109 hotel suites at Market & Caroline
Residences on Augusta (2004)
$5M ($1M city loan) into 90 units at James and Augusta

Sputtering:
Trinity Landing (2004-2009?)
$4.6M ($1.2M city loan) into 50 units @ 80 King William at Catharine

Stagnant:
The Lyric/Century (announced 2004)
$1.7M city loan toward 59 units at 12 Mary
Federal Revenue (announced 2004)
$4M city loan toward 180 condo units @ Main & Caroline

[Jon Dalton]

Bottom line - too many of us 500,000 Hamiltonians think our own city is shit or are just here for the cheap housing. If that can change, so will our whole downtown situation and all these failed projects that would be a slam dunk in any other city our size anywhere else in the world.