Anthony Henday Drive

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by oilsmack99

A vote for seperation within one year of Dion taking power would make me happy. Never again.

I hope Saskatchewan would follow, and if BC wanted to get together, I might agree to the tax if it all was put into renewables and transit in Western Canada.

Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark. Dion first. It will be good in the long run for us, yeah, what the disgusting liberals always say. I would find a small tax cool, along with a carbon trading system just for the western provinces.

I should be honest, I hated the east when I had to live there for a few years, I didn't like the culture or the people and how shallow and pc they were. We don't need em, so why are we still here, do we get off on the abuse and the drama, and believe we deserve it like some battered woman?

I love your battered woman analogy because I've used it myself before and it makes perfect sense. For us to continually put with all of this — makes us look like we are idiots and afraid to stand up for ourselves. We need to start calling the shots since we are the ones paying the bills in this country. Screw Dion and his carbon tax. Stelmach, Wall, etc. need to tell Ottawa we want immediate Senate reform (nothing less than Triple E will do), the end of equalization payments, electoral reform, the number of members of parliament from each province to be based solely on population (get rid of ancient deals favoring Quebec and the Maritimes) and readjusted with each census (also no more expanding of Parliament--it'll bigger than the House of Representatives in the US before you know it) and the abolishment of the CBC, CRTC and all of other institutions that are nothing but taxpayer supported cheerleaders for the Liberal party. If we're told to go to hell I say we separate at once and pass laws forbidding companies from trading with eastern Canada. They need us a lot more than we need them.

[MalcolmTucker]

The only way short of separation to reduce the amount of carbon tax paid in Alberta would be to, I dunno - reduce emissions?

That would really screw them out east eh? Denying them all that tax revenue? Plus it would help the environment, and our reputation as a province.

If you believe we need to reduce emissions, there is going to be a cost no matter what. Albertans through the market decided to build coal power plants, while other provinces decided to build nuclear plants starting in the 1970s (Ontario and New Brunswick). The true cost of the coal power plants will be shown, by pricing the externality of the pollution.

Is your opposition to this 'tax' and the 'east' a manifestation in this particular case of a lack of belief in mans influence on climate change?

Or is it a kneejerk reaction against liberals? Because the Conservatives committed to 50% below 1990 levels by 2050 aswell.

The cuts will come. A carbon tax shift lets you return the cost of the externality back to the people, so you don't just remove cash from the economy.

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

Or is it a kneejerk reaction against liberals? Because the Conservatives committed to 50% below 1990 levels by 2050 aswell.

I love how politicians ignore problems today and propose and pass legislation that puts future governments on the hook for huge issues and reforms.

Then they have the nerve to take all the credit because they are so "progressive" and have so much foresight towards protecting the environment, yet they don't do a single thing except pass laws that say "We're not going to do or change anything now, but those people in the future better figure out a way to comply with our strict environmental policies, or they'll be in trouble!"

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

The only way short of separation to reduce the amount of carbon tax paid in Alberta would be to, I dunno - reduce emissions?

That would really screw them out east eh? Denying them all that tax revenue? Plus it would help the environment, and our reputation as a province.

If you believe we need to reduce emissions, there is going to be a cost no matter what. Albertans through the market decided to build coal power plants, while other provinces decided to build nuclear plants starting in the 1970s (Ontario and New Brunswick). The true cost of the coal power plants will be shown, by pricing the externality of the pollution.

Is your opposition to this 'tax' and the 'east' a manifestation in this particular case of a lack of belief in mans influence on climate change?

Or is it a kneejerk reaction against liberals? Because the Conservatives committed to 50% below 1990 levels by 2050 aswell.

The cuts will come. A carbon tax shift lets you return the cost of the externality back to the people, so you don't just remove cash from the economy.

You seem to be making one huge assumption. That we need to cut emissions. I don't buy into the global warming industry's scare tactics.

Should we be doing more to reduce pollution, protect our water sources, etc.? You'd have a lot of support from me on that front. However, taxing the hell out of companies and people (you do realize that increased taxes forced upon companies just get passed on to us in the form of higher prices) isn't the solution. We need to encourge innovation and reward it. Very interesting article in the Calgary Herald today about how Tata in India (they're building the $2,500 Nano) and others are producing low cost vehicles that get amazing gas mileage and produce a lot less pollution than anyone would have imagined for such a cheap vehicle. Technology is the solution not draconian, politically-based "solutions." We can achieve cleaner air, etc. without committing economic suicide. Kyle, you need to have a lot more faith in what an unfettered, consumer-oriented market can achieve and a lot less in politically imposed "solutions."

Don't forget that while the Liberals were in power and kept preaching to us about how we needed to follow the Kyoto protocal that our emissions level rose twice as fast as they in the US who paid no attention to it. If you want action to be taken don't rely on the government unless your real agenda is to see a major shift of funds from the west to the east because they will only act if it is for their own self interest. If the public truly wants emission levels, etc. to drop (they don't--they want better gas mileage and less pollution) they will demand it from industry. That is how problems get solved.

[0773|=\]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

You seem to be making one huge assumption. That we need to cut emissions. I don't buy into the global warming industry's scare tactics.

Should we be doing more to reduce pollution, protect our water sources, etc.? You'd have a lot of support from me on that front. However, taxing the hell out of companies and people (you do realize that increased taxes forced upon companies just get passed on to us in the form of higher prices) isn't the solution. We need to encourge innovation and reward it. Very interesting article in the Calgary Herald today about how Tata in India (they're building the $2,500 Nano) and others are producing low cost vehicles that get amazing gas mileage and produce a lot less pollution than anyone would have imagined for such a cheap vehicle. Technology is the solution not draconian, politically-based "solutions." We can achieve cleaner air, etc. without committing economic suicide. Kyle, you need to have a lot more faith in what an unfettered, consumer-oriented market can achieve and a lot less in politically imposed "solutions."

Don't forget that while the Liberals were in power and kept preaching to us about how we needed to follow the Kyoto protocal that our emissions level rose twice as fast as they in the US who paid no attention to it. If you want action to be taken don't rely on the government unless your real agenda is to see a major shift of funds from the west to the east because they will only act if it is for their own self interest. If the public truly wants emission levels, etc. to drop (they don't--they want better gas mileage and less pollution) they will demand it from industry. That is how problems get solved.

Too often though, a free market without the slightest bit of legislation creates products that exploit those "loopholes" and are more concerned about the quick buck than the contribution they make to pollution, dirty water sources, etc.

There has to be a balance, because freedom of an economy is important as well. Government legislation has to intervene when the need for that is obvious. I believe what many people on this forum are trying to say is that climate change has too many variables because it's impact is heavily dependent on INDIVIDUAL's lifestyles/choices, and the economy doesn't like to be responsible for that.

While I'm not entirely sold on Dion's proposal, I think it's a step in the right direction and needs to be fine-tuned, being mindful of established economies, so they have opportunities to adapt.

[0773|=\]

...but back on the topic of AHD. I must say, a tip of the hat to TSM for their maintenance on the SW route. They've been very prompt at fixing up sections where the soil settled low (creating dips). It's nice being able to drive over the Whitemud without bottoming out my shocks, as happened earlier on in the year.

Now as long as the interchanges in that area are well on their way to being constructed, we'll have ourselves a roadway!

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by 0773|=\

...but back on the topic of AHD. I must say, a tip of the hat to TSM for their maintenance on the SW route. They've been very prompt at fixing up sections where the soil settled low (creating dips). It's nice being able to drive over the Whitemud without bottoming out my shocks, as happened earlier on in the year.

Now as long as the interchanges in that area are well on their way to being constructed, we'll have ourselves a roadway!

Is the provincial government still in charge of building those interchanges or did they wise up and go P3? We're in the same boat here in Calgary. The government controlled section is a disaster and the first P3 portion which started construction nearly 3 years later is actually going to be done first and be a full freeway.

[IKAN104]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually believe in this "global warming crisis". It's the biggest hoax in human history.

I'm in favour of reducing pollution for the sake of human health, but this — about destroying our planet is a joke. To think that we could actually have so much impact on this amazing planet is arrogant to say the least.

Don't worry about mother earth. She can take care of herself.

Now ... let the flaming begin.

[vaportrail]

Originally Posted by IKAN104

It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually believe in this "global warming crisis". It's the biggest hoax in human history.

Ummm, no. Based on population, that would be religion.

Originally Posted by IKAN104

I'm in favour of reducing pollution for the sake of human health, but this — about destroying our planet is a joke. To think that we could actually have so much impact on this amazing planet is arrogant to say the least.

Don't worry about mother earth. She can take care of herself.

Now ... let the flaming begin.

No need to flame. Not much can counter an attitude that billions of tonnes of airborne polutants annually will have no significant affect on the planet's climate and ecosystem.

[IKAN104]

Gee, you guys are letting me off easy.

[0773|=\]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Is the provincial government still in charge of building those interchanges or did they wise up and go P3? We're in the same boat here in Calgary. The government controlled section is a disaster and the first P3 portion which started construction nearly 3 years later is actually going to be done first and be a full freeway.

No funding options have been decided on yet. We already have a section (SE leg of AHD that was funded and built through the P3 process. On top of that, the group signed to a contract to manage all maintenance of that and the SW section (built by the province) for the next 40 years. That's what I was pleased with... they've actually been out there MAINTAINING the SW Anthony Henday.

Back to P3's though... they cannot be undertaken when major environmental assessment is required. The SE leg of AHD was ok, because it ran through farmland. The North leg from Yellowhead (west) to Manning is fine too (it's proceeding as a P3 project. Construction starts this fall), but the SW and NE sections require major crossings of the North Saskatchewan which require a more thorough environmental assessment. That's why the province has to take those reigns. Nice to see that they've really handed as much as possible over to the P3 implementation, while making their direct project as small as possible (from Yellowhead east to Manning Drive).

[0773|=\]

Alberta Transportation just posted the most recent open house (June 19) documents for initial and ultimate stages for the Stony Plain Road interchange:

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType353/production/ahdfsplan.pdf

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType353/production/ahdltplan.pdf

Personally, I think the ammount of land used for the 87 Ave ramps is excessive. SPR makes sense because that's a systems interchange with directional ramps, but the 87 Ave interchange is a simple diamond interchange, but an important access to WEM, yet it's accessibility from both Whitemud and SPR/100 Ave is eliminated. I understand their desire to avoid weave-zones (read: potential traffic snarls) at all costs. I just think it's a bit of a pain that local traffic is becoming an afterthought for this otherwise nice freeway.

[e909]

Originally Posted by IKAN104

It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually believe in this "global warming crisis". It's the biggest hoax in human history.

I'm in favour of reducing pollution for the sake of human health, but this — about destroying our planet is a joke. To think that we could actually have so much impact on this amazing planet is arrogant to say the least.

Don't worry about mother earth. She can take care of herself.

Now ... let the flaming begin.

Do people expect that Canada's contribution to lowering GHG will make any impact whatsoever? Even if Canada completely abolished all industry, all transportation, all heating, I think that the increase in pollution from developing countries would outmatch that in a few years...

I just don't see why we should give developing countries an economic advantage on our dime. Kyoto seems like the biggest fraud imaginable.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by e909

Do people expect that Canada's contribution to lowering GHG will make any impact whatsoever? Even if Canada completely abolished all industry, all transportation, all heating, I think that the increase in pollution from developing countries would outmatch that in a few years...

I just don't see why we should give developing countries an economic advantage on our dime. Kyoto seems like the biggest fraud imaginable.

It wouldn't take them a few years to match what we produce. China and India would probably match what we do in less than a month and there is no way they are going to slow down their economies. Besides, there a lot of other problems that are way more serious than global warming (kids, facts say we've been cooling the last decade!). Like the fact that most of us want be able to afford food soon which just happens to be a byproduct of this crazy global warming scare.

[Hooter]

E909,

Your bang on...bravo!

Hooter

[Wrecker]

July 30, 2008
Construction set to begin on north Edmonton ring road

Edmonton... With construction set to begin August 1, motorists will be driving on the 21-kilometre north leg of Edmonton’s ring road by the fall of 2011.
“Anthony Henday Drive Northwest will significantly improve traffic in Edmonton’s north end when it opens in 2011,” said Luke Ouellette, Minister of Transportation. “Using the made-in-Alberta P3 highway solution will mean this roadway is built two years sooner and at a cost savings for Albertans.”

The Alberta government has signed a 30-year contract with the NORTHWESTCONNECT General Partnership to design, build, operate and partially finance Anthony Henday Drive from Yellowhead Trail on the west side of Edmonton to Manning Drive. This Public-Private Partnership (P3) project also includes the maintenance of Anthony Henday Drive NW.

The P3 selection process is based on the net present value (NPV) of the project, or the value of the project in today’s dollars. The three bids (NPV) the province received were $1.42 billion, $1.49 billion, and $1.65 billion. The cost of doing the same work through traditional delivery methods is estimated at $1.66 billion (NPV) in today's dollars. The NORTHWESTCONNECT General Partnership had the lowest bid price at $1.42 billion, which includes the cost to design, construct, maintain, and all financing for the project.

The Alberta government will advance $500 million during construction and then start payments over the 30 years to NORTHWESTCONNECT General Partnership once the Anthony Drive NW opens to traffic.

“Bilfinger Berger Project Investments Inc. is very pleased to be involved as a partner with the province of Alberta in delivering this key component of road infrastructure,” said John McArthur, President of Bilfinger Berger Projects Investments Inc. “Bilfinger and the entire NORTHWESTCONNECT team looks forward to working with Alberta Transportation and all other stakeholders as we move into the construction phase.”

The 21-kilometre north leg of the ring road will be free-flow with no signal lights and will include eight interchanges, five flyovers, and two rail crossings, for a total of 27 bridge structures. Anthony Henday Drive NW is the third project to use Alberta's P3 procurement model for highways. The arrangement was used to build the southeast leg of Anthony Henday Drive. It is also being used to complete the northeast leg of Calgary’s ring road, which will open to traffic in fall 2009.

[TimB09]

I was wondering what was happening with the north end section of Anthony Henday. Now I know.

Thanks Wrecker!

[mersar]

Good to hear its about to get underway. Most of the players in the partnership that got the contract are also the ones involved in the NE portion of Calgary's ringroad (Flatiron has the bulk of both partnerships), though I don't believe any of the major partners were involved in the previous P3 part in Edmonton.

[Coldrsx]

NW will be nice but the NE, with the new bridge, is when i will cheer

[0773|=\]

I wonder if anytime soon, the province will go through the eastern section of the ring road, and overhaul the Sherwood Park Freeway interchange? That is probably one of the most glaring sub-standard designs along the entire route.