YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[phesto]

Originally Posted by tintinium

Among flights being cancelled are YVR - KIX (Osaka)

Hopefully some of these will be reinstated when they get their 787s.

I hope so. I think the good news for YVR is that aside from maybe a couple of route cuts, it will get through this unscathed. I haven't seen the schedule changes but AC suggested that the majority of flight cuts will be on transborder (13%) and on int'l destinations ex-YYZ, while domestic will only get cut 2%.

[Rusty Gull]

^It's quite sad, really, that Canada has only... what... two flights daily to the world's second largest economy?

Doesn't the end of the Osaka-Vancouver route undermine the Asia Pacific Gateway strategy?

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

^It's quite sad, really, that Canada has only... what... two flights daily to the world's second largest economy?

Doesn't the end of the Osaka-Vancouver route undermine the Asia Pacific Gateway strategy?

Well, a more liberal open skies policy would help. SQ has been wanting to increase their flights to YVR for ages, but has been limited. I'm sure they'd love to do a SIN-KIX-YVR routing.

The so-called "Blue Skies" policy by the federal government has been a joke -- and certainly not beneficial to Vancouver. Does anyone really care whether one has an open skies agreement with, for example, Iceland?

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

^It's quite sad, really, that Canada has only... what... two flights daily to the world's second largest economy?

Doesn't the end of the Osaka-Vancouver route undermine the Asia Pacific Gateway strategy?

An even bigger shame is that it's the ONLY direct flight from any carrier. I know that KIX is expensive to land at, but still.

At least this opens the door to other carriers.

[Yume-sama]

It really is not very hard to get to Osaka from Narita, Tokyo. It would be more convenient, yes, but I can see why they would cut it when it is so accessible by either air or train once you land in Tokyo. Air Canada is still once daily to Tokyo, while JAL alternates between once and twice daily every few days. There is also twice daily direct service from Toronto - Tokyo with AC (and of course since it is Toronto, they get the new interior). Air Canada is obviously in big troubles with the announcement of them cutting 2000 jobs and 15% or so of their total flights. If we are lucky maybe JAL will add another plane from Vancouver - Osaka on the days when they do not go twice daily to Tokyo. Of course, there would probably not be a need for a 747 to go from Vancouver - Osaka, so they could use one of their new super nice 777s or one of their 35 new 787s once they arrive!

[twoNeurons]

True... but there's a significant layover unless you want to travel between Narita and Haneda in Tokyo.

Most of the connections are between the two city airports, Haneda (Tokyo) and Itami (Osaka City). This makes sense for the Japanese, as they're more convenient airports... sucks for international flights who want to transfer to a domestic flight, as the airports are two hours apart.

In addition, there's no Shinkansen to Narita, so you'd have to transfer in Tokyo if you wanted to take the train... though I think they're upgrading the rails to Standard gauge so maybe that will be an option in the future for through trains.

Sidepoint: Air Canada doesn't have any 747s anymore, as far as I know. I think the YVR-KIX flight is well-used though, and there are lots of flights that go to Western Japan from Osaka.

Anyway, transfers suck no matter which way you slice it. It's one of the reason I'm really looking forward to the 787 more than the A380. More point-to-point travel.

Okay, I'll just stop whining.

[twoNeurons]

<<double post>>

[Yume-sama]

Hmm, yes between ANA and JAL there are only 5 flights per day out of Narita to Osaka, while Haneda has 48 between both airlines. The quickest way to Haneda is by taking the Limousine Bus from Narita to Haneda (a bus leaves every 20 minutes during the day from Narita to Haneda) via expressway, and it will get you there in 1 hour and 17 minutes. The limousine bus is actually faster than the current Narita Express train in to Tokyo, however, they are re-doing the line to make it more straight forward and it should save about 7 minutes .

http://www.google.co.jp/maps?f=d&hl=ja&g...476989,0.937958&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11&start=0

[en2]

I think YVR has been getting the shaft from Air Canada ever since they bought Canadian Airlines.

I think the original plan of the International Terminal Building was for it to become a hub for Asia-Pacific traffic for Canadian Airlines where American Airlines (their then codeshare partner) would funnel in flights from all over the U.S. to board CP flights to Asia (because American Airlines only had one route to Asia and that was Tokyo).

Canadian Airlines used to fly to Tokyo, Nagoya, Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Taipei, Manila and maybe Kuala Lumpur (although I think it was a code-share from Taipei with Malaysia Airlines)

Air Canada's original Asia-Pacific routes were Seoul, Osaka, and Taipei and now all thats left is Seoul.

Now with the "new" Air Canada, they only fly to Beijing, Shanghai, Seoul, Tokyo, Hong Kong and with all OLD aircraft too!

The good thing is....less crappy Air Canada = more opportunities for Asian airlines at YVR.

[SpongeG]

i would feel sorry for asians having only once choice of flying air canada to come to Canada to visit business whatever

they have more advanced subway cars hel their cell phones are more advanced than what air canada can offer

[northwest2k]

Originally Posted by en2

I think YVR has been getting the shaft from Air Canada ever since they bought Canadian Airlines.

I think the original plan of the International Terminal Building was for it to become a hub for Asia-Pacific traffic for Canadian Airlines where American Airlines (their then codeshare partner) would funnel in flights from all over the U.S. to board CP flights to Asia (because American Airlines only had one route to Asia and that was Tokyo).

Canadian Airlines used to fly to Tokyo, Nagoya, Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Taipei, Manila and maybe Kuala Lumpur (although I think it was a code-share from Taipei with Malaysia Airlines)

Air Canada's original Asia-Pacific routes were Seoul, Osaka, and Taipei and now all thats left is Seoul.

Now with the "new" Air Canada, they only fly to Beijing, Shanghai, Seoul, Tokyo, Hong Kong and with all OLD aircraft too!

The good thing is....less crappy Air Canada = more opportunities for Asian airlines at YVR.

How is that a good thing??? Thats a bad thing you fool. The reason Air Canada isn't flying brand new air crafts from Vancouver to those destinations is because they can't afford it. YVR has been getting the shaft from Air Canada?? More like the other way around. YVR has been letting all these asian airlines move in on Air Canada's territory, taking away all their business. It's shameful. All the YVR cares about is money. Air Canada could go bankrupt for all they care. As long as they have Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, EVA Air, China Eastern, etc. they're happy

[muzhav84]

YVR has no duty to protect Air Canada! They are a private airport authority, and will want to attract any airlines they can. Air Canada is totally focused on Toronto, they don't care about growing Vancouver... As an employee of an airline at YVR, I can tell you the airport authority already accomodates Air Canada with prime gate space, lets them do whatever they want, uses tons of resources in helping Air Canada smoothly transfer pax between terminals, etc... And YVR charges some of the lowest landing fees of any major airport, there is no validity at all to the statement "More like the other way around. YVR has been letting all these asian airlines move in on Air Canada's territory" YVR cannot block other airlines just to protect AC, they aren't related companies.

Air Canada majorly screws Vancouver pax with the old planes, lousy direct flights to most US destinations (especially east coast), and forcing people to connect through toronto. And it is Toronto who screws Air Canada, with massive landing fees and tons of red tape. anyways... sorry about the rant, i just want to make clear that airport authorities have no allegiance to any airline, they are businesses trying to run a facility. if that means attracting EVA, Cathay, Singapore, etc.. then they have every reason to do it

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by northwest2k

How is that a good thing??? Thats a bad thing you fool. The reason Air Canada isn't flying brand new air crafts from Vancouver to those destinations is because they can't afford it. YVR has been getting the shaft from Air Canada?? More like the other way around. YVR has been letting all these asian airlines move in on Air Canada's territory, taking away all their business. It's shameful. All the YVR cares about is money. Air Canada could go bankrupt for all they care. As long as they have Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, EVA Air, China Eastern, etc. they're happy

YVR can't just "let" any airline move in. There needs to be a negotiated bilateral agreement with that country by the Federal Government. YVR's business is to serve the flying public, and therefore it's in their interest as well as the paying passenger's best interest to attract as many airlines and air service as possible.

YVR HAS been shafted, both by the government and by Air Canada. For example, Air France wanted to start non-stop service to YVR from Paris (which Air Canada doesn't serve non-stop from Vancouver, incidentally). No go due to the restrictive bilateral agreement between Canada and France (only YYZ and YUL). So now Seattle gets the benefit of nonstop service to Paris instead, along with the ancillary revenues from catering, servicing, landing fees, etc.

Singapore Airlines has been wanting to increase frequency for years. Philippine Airlines wants to increase frequency to YVR. But they've can't -- partly because of Air Canada. Yet Air Canada serves neither Singapore nor Manila (and has no immediate intention to).

How is this situation good for you as a traveler?

[eduardo88]

deleted post....wrong thread...oops!

[SpongeG]

Update: Unidentified powder found on Air Canada Jazz plane

RICHMOND (NEWS1130) - An Air Canada Jazz plane has been cleared by environmental crews after a level two hazmat scare this morning at YVR.

Air Canada employees discovered a yellow powder in the cargo hold, but after towing the aircraft from the main terminal to a parking area, the substance was deemed non-toxic.

YVR says the incident didn't cause any delays.

http://www.news1130.com/news/topstory/article.jsp?content=20080624_122632_6796

[excel]

With the arrival of summer comes the first non-stop transatlantic flight from Vancouver to Paris on Air Transat. Following a comfortable overnight flight, you and your inner romantic can be sitting in a café on the banks of the Seine with tunes of Edith Piaf playing in the distance.

Launched May 29, this new weekly service will connect YVR to Charles de Gaulle Airport on a 9.5-hour flight. The new service will run through October 3, 2008.

Flight TS 708 departs Vancouver on Sunday at 11:50 p.m. and arrives in Paris on Monday at 6:25 p.m. Vancouver-bound flight TS 709 departs Paris on Monday at 8:25 p.m. and arrives at YVR later that evening at 9:40 p.m.

Passengers will take to the skies in an Airbus A330-200. With the recent two-inch upgrade to legroom for all 342 economy seats onboard, passengers can now enjoy an enhanced experience with Air Transat's best-in-class service, meals and in-flight entertainment.

Air Transat also offers a Vancouver-to-Paris flight with a stopover in Calgary. TS 408 departs Thursdays from YVR at 5:20 p.m. and arrives via Calgary at Charles de Gaulle Airport at 1:55 p.m. the next day. Vancouver-bound TS 409 leaves Paris on Fridays at 3:40 p.m. and arrives at YVR later that day, via Calgary, at 7:10 p.m.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Update: Unidentified powder found on Air Canada Jazz plane

RICHMOND (NEWS1130) - An Air Canada Jazz plane has been cleared by environmental crews after a level two hazmat scare this morning at YVR.

Air Canada employees discovered a yellow powder in the cargo hold, but after towing the aircraft from the main terminal to a parking area, the substance was deemed non-toxic.

YVR says the incident didn't cause any delays.

http://www.news1130.com/news/topstory/article.jsp?content=20080624_122632_6796

I bet it was shipment of baby powder. That stuff gets everywhere.

[SpongeG]

i was at the airport on thursday - the skytrain cross walk link thing is fully up now - not completed but it goes all the way now

[phesto]

More details on AC's cuts - note that the Sacramento route has been cut in addition to Osaka.

Comox losing AC service to YYC is a shame...

Air Canada trims flight schedule

Canwest News Service
Published: Monday, June 30, 2008

MONTREAL - Air Canada has said it's cancelling 10 routes and suspending three other flights this winter as part of a seven per cent reduction in capacity to save on fuel costs.

Air Canada flights from Hamilton to Montreal and Ottawa are cancelled effective July 31, to save the carrier money on less profitable routes, amid soaring jet fuel prices. Air Canada's Montreal-to-San Francisco line is one of three seasonal flights suspended effective Oct. 26, the carrier said on its website. Earlier this month, Air Canada announced a seven per cent reduction in system-wide capacity to reduce costs, including a 13 per cent drop in trans-border capacity to the lacklustre U.S. market.

"Our preference is to reduce frequencies, down-gauge aircraft and maintain the breadth of our network via alternate routings if necessary," the carrier said on its website.

Air Canada has also said it plans to reduce its workforce of 28,000 by 2,000 positions, including 500 flight attendants. The cancelled routes include:

. Calgary-Prince George, B.C.: last date of operation is June 2

. Hamilton-Montreal: last date of operation is July 31

. Hamilton-Ottawa: last date of operation is July 31

. Toronto-Port of Spain, Trinidad: last southbound flight Aug 31; last northbound flight Aug. 31

. Montreal-Deer Lake, N.L.: last date of operation is Sept 1

. Calgary-Comox, B.C.: last date of operation is Sept. 2.

. Vancouver-Osaka, Japan: last westbound flight is Oct. 24; last eastbound flight is Oct 25.

. Vancouver-Sacramento, Calif.: last date of operation is Oct. 25.

. Calgary-Palm Springs, Calif.: winter seasonal route will not operate this year

. Ottawa-Orlando, Fla.: winter seasonal route will not operate this year

Seasonal routes to be suspended effective Oct. 26 include:

. Toronto-Kelowna, B.C.

. Montreal-San Francisco

. Toronto-Rome

[Rusty Gull]

Of all the closings, including Montreal-SF and Toronto-Rome, the closure of the Vancouver-Osaka route is the most economically significant. Very bad news indeed.