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  #1681  
Old Posted May 30, 2008, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
I have never really thought any public toilet, even in high end department stores, have felt clean and safe compared to what you see anywhere in Japan.
any pictures of these "Toilets from Heaven" you talk about in Japan?
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  #1682  
Old Posted May 30, 2008, 11:58 PM
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any pictures of these "Toilets from Heaven" you talk about in Japan?
I am not brave enough to sneak a camera in to a mensroom. Being a gaijin only affords you so many things you can get away with. But most of them are these wonderful things with heated seats, various sprays, automatic flushing, deodorizers, and sound dampeners... Anyways, there is no denying the Japanese are crazy in their own special way, but they do have respect for property that does not belong to them. Here is an example of the cleanliness factor from Chie Izumo on Flickr. Most do not have doors on the outside, and opt for a twisting hallway, so you do not have to touch anything like a door handle, with automatic sinks, paper dispensers, soap dispenser, and flushing.

     
     
  #1683  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 12:03 AM
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It's a culture thing: and for obedience is huge part of Japanese culture.
     
     
  #1684  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 12:27 AM
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Oh did you guys know that the trash cans at Olympic village are actually electronic trash compactors? =) I hope people don't vandalize those =O
Really?
How will the binners get the bottles out? Crushed-arm lawsuit on its way???
     
     
  #1685  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 2:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
Being a gaijin only affords you so many things you can get away with.
I guess I've been making the assumption that you were Japanese.
     
     
  #1686  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 2:50 AM
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I guess I've been making the assumption that you were Japanese.
Nope I am just a realistic white person who knows they are better than us. I am used to being confused for Japanese... I guess you can not really sound white when you speak it... and then you show up in person.... they look like they saw a ghost! Guess I could use a tan...
     
     
  #1687  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 4:23 AM
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Really?
How will the binners get the bottles out? Crushed-arm lawsuit on its way???
I believe that was the case: or at least according to global. That could be the reason why they have weird looking trashcans...
     
     
  #1688  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 4:25 AM
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So Japanese peiple are more mature than Western Canadians?
I think he means "The West" as in North America, as opposed to Japan. I have to agree, North American youths – generally – tend to be more immature and disrespectful of public property.
     
     
  #1689  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 5:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post

Interesting how the trap arms for those lavs (pipe below sink...) drop into the floor after the p-trap. Japan obviously has a different view on venting requirments. In Canada you'll almost always see the pipe go horizontal into the wall where it connects to a vent.
     
     
  #1690  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 4:25 PM
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Building projects galore, but few come to fruition

Vancouver's history is dotted with unfulfilled construction plans

John Mackie
Vancouver Sun

Friday, May 30, 2008


CREDIT: Glenn Baglo / Vancouver Sun
A 1970 drawing of False Creek and downtown showing buildings that were never built.

Vancouver has seen its share of Big Proposals over the years. But Premier Gordon Campbell's recent announcement that the province would be putting a sunroof on BC Place Stadium and had found a new waterfront location on False Creek for the Vancouver Art Gallery ranks with the best of 'em.

The refurbished stadium and gallery are supposed to be the linchpins for a new "high-density urban entertainment/cultural hub" on False Creek.

Just what that means is anyone's guess - as is whether it will ever happen. Old newspapers are filled with plans for cultural facilities and concepts that were never built.

One of the recurring themes in Vancouver is the search for a cultural hub or civic centre. In 1929 American planner Harland Bartholomew unveiled A Plan For The City of Vancouver, a planning document that became the blueprint for the development of the city for decades.

One of the key elements in the Bartholomew plan was for a massive civic complex on the north shore of False Creek at Burrard and Pacific.

"That was probably the most grandiose and most complex plan," says heritage expert John Atkin.

"It would have changed the face of the city completely, in terms of the focus and how things developed."

The Bartholomew complex included a new city hall and several other civic buildings.

"It was going to contain a museum, archives, I think it was even going to have a library," says Norman Young, the former chairman of the civic theatres board.

"It was one of those things where they thought 'We can put everything together.' "

The drawing of the plan by architect George Sharp is very art deco, elegant and streamlined and perfectly symmetrical. There's a waterfront walkway, formal gardens, a grand staircase, and two banks of civic buildings on either side of the staircase. At the top of the staircase is a block-long city hall, which has a deco tower similar to the city hall that was finally built at 12th and Cambie in 1935.

Unfortunately, the depression came along, and the plan was never adopted. But one element of the Bartholomew civic complex plan was built: the Burrard Bridge.

Sharp and his partner Charles Thompson had a hand in many big concepts. In 1914, they drafted a plan for the University of British Columbia, but the construction of the university was delayed by the First World War and when UBC was finally built in the 1920s, Sharp & Thompson only got to design three buildings (the library, the science building and the powerhouse).

This didn't seem to deter them. The Vancouver Public Library's archives have two Sharp & Thompson designs for museums from the 1930s. The Pacific Museum was to be located at Lost Lagoon on the eastern edge of Stanley Park. It was a handsome, imposing structure, very much like the Bartholomew city hall, save that the central tower was relatively low.

Another Sharp & Thompson Pacific Museum was to be located on Deadman's Island off Stanley Park. It was a much grander design, with an Empire State Building-style tower and an adjoining citadel-style building. It also had a massive park-like interior courtyard.

If Whitecaps owner Greg Kerfoot can ever talk the Port of Vancouver's bureaucrats into letting him build his waterfront soccer stadium in Gastown, he might want to take a look at Sharp & Thompson's beautiful 1934 design for a stadium at Kits Point. It was very deco, naturally, but also contained a little bit of everything: a 30,000-seat stadium, a civic auditorium, an outdoor bandstand, a civic plaza, a pool and tennis courts.

But someone should warn Kerfoot that there have been numerous plans for sports stadiums that were kiboshed. Young found a 1911 newspaper story for a 50,000-seat stadium on the Stanley Park side of Lost Lagoon. In fact, it was to be built with fill on Lost Lagoon, or at least the northwestern corner of Lost Lagoon. It was a rather ambitious concept: at the time, the population of the entire Lower Mainland was about 157,000.

"There was another [proposed sports stadium] where this guy had almost all the property where the art gallery is now," says Young.

"He was going to build a baseball stadium there in the early 1900s. He couldn't get one or two lots, so he couldn't do it."

Park commissioner George Thompson advanced his plan for a civic centre on Georgia Street at the entrance to Stanley Park in 1949. The nine buildings included a library, polytechnic school, theatre, auditorium, museum, art gallery and art school.

None of it was ever built, but Atkin says the Queen Elizabeth Theatre is a leftover from another civic centre concept.

"I think the [current] site of the CBC was going to be a sports arena, a la Key Arena in Seattle," says Atkin.

"Then there was going to be a convention centre, and an art gallery and library. The Queen Elizabeth Theatre was actually the first piece of that large puzzle, and the rest of it never got built."

There were several versions of the sports arena near the Queen E. One was a somewhat brazen attempt by the then-owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Stafford Smythe and Harold Ballard, to get Vancouver to give them a block of free land, where they would erect a 20,000-seat arena for a National Hockey League franchise. Council put their plan in a plebiscite in the 1964 election, and voters turned it down.

The Sun files have an alternative 1949 plan for the theatre that became the Queen E. It would have had a theatre, but also included a 10-storey public library, CBC broadcasting studios, and stores. It would have been located between Robson and Smithe and Howe and Hornby, where Robson Square is today.

The Queen Elizabeth Theatre is now undergoing a $15-million renovation, but a few years ago, Young says, there were discussions about knocking it down and building a new theatre next door on the former Greyhound bus depot/Larwill Park site.

"This was at the same time they were going to build the [present] library, which is why it never got any press, etc.," says Young.

"Part of the considerations was to buy the post office and put the library in there, because it's an adaptable building, along with a million other civic things like the museum and stuff like that. And then rebuild the theatre and change the block between [where the Queen Elizabeth is today] to a park. Nothing ever came of it."

The old Greyhound/Larwill Park site may yet become some kind of major civic space. Before Campbell gave his surprising announcement that the art gallery was moving to False Creek - the gallery was only told about it two weeks in advance - the new gallery was supposed to be on the Larwill Park site.

Now Mayor Sam Sullivan has mused that the long-delayed Coal Harbour arts complex could go to Larwill Park. It was supposed to be built on the Coal Harbour waterfront, but the land was sold to the province for the new convention centre.

The city still has $20 million it collected from developers and the province for the arts complex, but if the BC Place sunroof costs $200 million, the art gallery costs $300 million, and a new national maritime centre is built on the North Shore, funding for a $70-million mid-size (1,800 seat) symphonic hall might be a bit hard to come by. (All of these figures are educated guesses - Gordon Campbell didn't release any dollar figures in his BC Place/art gallery announcement. The last time Sun reporter Chad Skelton did a Freedom of Information request about BC Place's roof, he got back 13 pages of blacked-out documents.)

The art gallery looked at many options before settling on the Larwill Park site, including staying at its present site in the old courthouse at Robson Square. One option featured a new building on the southeast corner of the site. A model of the proposal is wild - the top of the building hangs over its podium like a giant 'T.' It was as tall as the Sears building across the street.

There also would have been a new entrance on Georgia Street below the current entrance, so that the basement of the gallery could be incorporated into the exhibition space. Arthur Erickson's 1983 addition would also have been demolished, bringing the courthouse section of the gallery back to its original 1912 look.

There were many, many plans for libraries that were never built. Architect C.B.K. Van Norman designed an ultra-modern 10-storey library at Burrard and Robson in 1952. The firm of Sharp, Thompson, Berwick and Pratt (a latter-day edition of Sharp & Thompson) designed another modern highrise library in 1946, while alderman Halford Wilson proposed a sleek modern library at Pender and Beatty in 1951.

There's a parking lot there now.

Wilson's library is quite striking; it's really too bad it didn't go through. But in retrospect, many other Big Plans were kind of dumb. A few years ago I found a poster in a junk store for something called "Vancouver: City of the Seventies." Essentially it's an artist's conception of Canadian Pacific's plan for the north shore of False Creek in the late 60s - a beehive of bland cement apartment towers.

The biggest building downtown was also never built: a controversial 50-storey courthouse proposed by W.A.C. Bennett's Social Credit government. The idea was killed by Dave Barrett's NDP when it was elected in 1972.

"The legend is when Wacky Bennett got booted out and Dave Barrett came in, Barrett said 'this is awful,'" says Atkin.

"So he took the model of the tower, laid it down on its side and said 'Let's build this.' That's the origin of what was called the three block project, which became Robson Square."

Reached at his home in Victoria, Barrett chuckles at the memory.

"Well, actually it was [Attorney General] Alex Macdonald," says Barrett.

"He came up to me and told me about this. I said 'Well, hell Alex, if that's the way you believe [then do it]. You know more about the legal structure and what kind of facilities you want.' He said 'Fine,' and went ahead and did it. They built the courthouse, but not that huge monster they had planned.

"We lost the [next] election, but Alex showed up anyway at the dedication for the [Robson Square] building, and they just ignored him. That was chicken [bleep] stuff. Mind you, they were a chicken [bleep] crew."

Barrett is now 78, but he still hasn't lost his bite, or his wit. Asked what the idea was behind the Socred courthouse tower, he replies: "They wanted a phallic symbol, I think. People are hard up, they've got to have something."

[email protected]

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=0f93c500-bac5-4079-b207-ba74caf1b09b

Last edited by subdude; May 31, 2008 at 4:42 PM.
     
     
  #1691  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 6:58 PM
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Here's some other pictures from the article...


1970 drawing of False Creek and downtown showing buildings that were never built. The 50-storey Socred courthouse is the tall building downtown.



Design for the Vancouver Public Library at Pender and Beatty in 1951 by then-Alderman Halford Wilson. The drawing was made by industrial designer Mel Parry.



1934 proposal by Sharp & Thompson for a sports stadium and civic auditorium at Kitsilano Point, where Vanier Park is today.



Park commissioner George Thompson's proposed Georgia street civic centre, 1940s. From the City of Vancouver Archives.



Proposed art deco civic centre at Burrard and Pacific, 1928. From the Bartholomew Plan.


Artist's rendering of a proposed Pacific Museum near Lost Lagoon by the architects Sharp and Thompson, circa 1930s. Vancouver Public Library 7899.



A proposal for the Vancouver Public Library at Robson and Burrard in 1952 by architect CBK Van Norman.



Stewart McMorran and Robert Bonner look over an early model for the Social Credit government's proposed high-rise courthouse downtown in 1966. This is a 30 storey model: the project eventually would be up to 50 storeys, which would have been the tallest building in Vancouver. Ralph Bower photo.



Sharp & Thompson's 1914 plan for the University of British Columbia campus. The plan was never implemented, because the construction of UBC was delayed by the First World War.


It's a shame that the civic centre and Burrard and Pacific was never built. I would love to see some of those ugly buildings razed in that neighbourhood. Especially that aquatic centre.

That plan for Kits point was another one of my favourites... but imagine the NIMBY opposition is that was proposed today.
     
     
  #1692  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 7:01 PM
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omg....this would've been so amazing.
     
     
  #1693  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
Here's some other pictures from the article...

Thanks smooth, I didn't see those online - did you scan them?
     
     
  #1694  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 9:27 PM
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cool pictures, thanks.
     
     
  #1695  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 10:16 PM
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i've been looking to scan a good set of the bartholomew plans for some time. honestly, this is among the most inspired plan-that-wasn't i've seen. right on, that's for the additional images.
     
     
  #1696  
Old Posted May 31, 2008, 11:19 PM
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Thanks smooth, I didn't see those online - did you scan them?
I found the link on the main "Arts & Life" page of the Vancouver Sun website.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/arts/index.html#
     
     
  #1697  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 1:42 AM
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wow thanks again for the great article
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  #1698  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
I found the link on the main "Arts & Life" page of the Vancouver Sun website.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/arts/index.html#
Right, I see that now ...
     
     
  #1699  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Smooth View Post

1934 proposal by Sharp & Thompson for a sports stadium and civic auditorium at Kitsilano Point, where Vanier Park is today.
What sport would use an elongated stadium like that? It looks like the Circus Maximus.

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Proposed art deco civic centre at Burrard and Pacific, 1928. From the Bartholomew Plan.
That looks like the headquarters of some kind of super-evil empire. Perfect!
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  #1700  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 4:35 AM
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I believe that was the case: or at least according to global. That could be the reason why they have weird looking trashcans...
Here's a pic I took of one yesterday. I hadn't heard about them having compactors but when I saw this one the thought definitely crossed my mind. The hatch on it is just like one you'd find on a mail box - sort of like a seesawing bucket. And they look pretty heavy-duty to boot. I'm a bit disappointed they don't have some sort of recycling boxes around there though.

     
     
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