AUSTIN | Projects & Construction II

[SecretAgentMan]

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[StoOgE]

Well, my choices werent just based on tallest buildings, although density is very important to me. Austin is very quickly running out of undeveloped blocks of land, and I personally dont want to see every single lowrise building (bar/shop/resteraunt) torn down for a highrise, so its pretty critical to me that we make the most out of these remaining blank spots in downtown. I cant really speak to which developer has best access to capital to actually get the thing built, because I honestly dont have a clue... by rankings were based soley on the proposals... which are 100% going to change, but I think we have a good feel for what the different groups are going for.

Simmons Vedders development to me, is uninspired. All of the buildings look exactly the same, and they are pretty bland. Right now second street has a pretty good combo of eclectic buildings with great street levels, and I just dont feel what they have shown continues that at all. To me this development screams suburban office park on steroids. This one I would be unhappy with if it were selected.

Trammel Crow - very nice looking buildings with great density. Their track record in Austin is very good, I love the greenspace they are building out and I love the LEED standards they seem to be shooting for. I love their street level down second street that they show off and the pedestrian walkways not along the street. On a completely subjective point, they have some very nice looking diverse buildings.. they all look like part of the same development, but are unique as well.

Catellus - I actually like this proposal, but its density leaves alot to be desired.. I want at least one tower with some real height to it, I think the Silver LEED standard is probably below some of the other projects (I really think Trammel is shooting for Platinum).. part of the problem here is they dont really show a very detailed look at their street level plans. I think they are probably pretty decent, but I cant really tell. This is a design that I could live with were it selected.

Forest City- has good building height but the buildings seem to be set too far back from the street. I like big sidewalks similar to whats on second street now, but these seem to be set back pretty far. Also, a roundabout? We have the oppurtunity to really connect divergent parts of downtown by extending 2nd/west over to the area where Spring is located and I dont think shoving a roundabout in the middle of downtown Austin is very smart. I wouldnt be thrilled if this were selected, its my second least favorite.

Stratus - being in charge of developing second street is obviously a huge plus to this development. LEED Gold is a huge plus, though I still think Trammel Crow is going for Platinum, but I'd like to see confirmation of that. Really to me, This is a very very close second and I like everything they are doing. This and Trammel Crow are the two densest developments by far.. I even like that these buildings are all very different looking. To me, awarding a LEED platinum design would be a huge statement to future builders to step up their game.. and I just like the building designs better for Stratus. But either one of these would be a huge win.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by Mopacs

AH! Thanks for the help in seeing the illusion Kevin. A good night's sleep helps too. Though I must admit its trippy. The architects of the Hampton and their evil little games!

NO Kidding... good spoting.... I thought it was just a bad photoshop job!

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

Well, my choices werent just based on tallest buildings, although density is very important to me. Austin is very quickly running out of undeveloped blocks of land, and I personally dont want to see every single lowrise building (bar/shop/resteraunt) torn down for a highrise, so its pretty critical to me that we make the most out of these remaining blank spots in downtown. I cant really speak to which developer has best access to capital to actually get the thing built, because I honestly dont have a clue... by rankings were based soley on the proposals... which are 100% going to change, but I think we have a good feel for what the different groups are going for.

Simmons Vedders development to me, is uninspired. All of the buildings look exactly the same, and they are pretty bland. Right now second street has a pretty good combo of eclectic buildings with great street levels, and I just dont feel what they have shown continues that at all. To me this development screams suburban office park on steroids. This one I would be unhappy with if it were selected.

Trammel Crow - very nice looking buildings with great density. Their track record in Austin is very good, I love the greenspace they are building out and I love the LEED standards they seem to be shooting for. I love their street level down second street that they show off and the pedestrian walkways not along the street. On a completely subjective point, they have some very nice looking diverse buildings.. they all look like part of the same development, but are unique as well.

Catellus - I actually like this proposal, but its density leaves alot to be desired.. I want at least one tower with some real height to it, I think the Silver LEED standard is probably below some of the other projects (I really think Trammel is shooting for Platinum).. part of the problem here is they dont really show a very detailed look at their street level plans. I think they are probably pretty decent, but I cant really tell. This is a design that I could live with were it selected.

Forest City- has good building height but the buildings seem to be set too far back from the street. I like big sidewalks similar to whats on second street now, but these seem to be set back pretty far. Also, a roundabout? We have the oppurtunity to really connect divergent parts of downtown by extending 2nd/west over to the area where Spring is located and I dont think shoving a roundabout in the middle of downtown Austin is very smart. I wouldnt be thrilled if this were selected, its my second least favorite.

Stratus - being in charge of developing second street is obviously a huge plus to this development. LEED Gold is a huge plus, though I still think Trammel Crow is going for Platinum, but I'd like to see confirmation of that. Really to me, This is a very very close second and I like everything they are doing. This and Trammel Crow are the two densest developments by far.. I even like that these buildings are all very different looking. To me, awarding a LEED platinum design would be a huge statement to future builders to step up their game.. and I just like the building designs better for Stratus. But either one of these would be a huge win.

Wow! Thanks... you just saved me a lot of time! Like your assessment. I personally just like the design of Status more because of the variety and general aesthetic. I also prefer that area not look like one development. I like the diversity in the buildings. I think it will help the area age better. But Agree that Status and Trammel Crow both have the means to make this happen.... and are my fave two. I Will also say I prefer Stratus because I think they are fresher and might be a bit more adventuresome! My "fear" about TC is they could end up thinking too old school corporate in the long run, and make the project take a more generic turn. Nothing to back that up, just gut. But agian... a close 1 and 2. Would not be disappointed at either.... and think both are smart enough to include all the best of both!

[JGFrisco]

A question - if one is chosen, do they have to build everything? Suppose, say, TC is chosen...they build one building, then say the climate has changed and just stop.

What is the penalty for that, if anything?

[jgouger]

From looking at the proposals, at least from a strictly aesthetic point of view the only two real competitors are the Trammel Crow and Stratus' developments. Its going to be a hard decision between those two proposals as both have "dream teams" assembled.

Granted this may or may not be a factor, but The City has enjoyed a very successful relationship with AMLI Residential and Stratus in other pre-existing projects.

However, USAA and Trammel Crow seem to have much more experience in developing such large projects. For anyone who has spent any time in San Antonio, USAA is practically a household name. Their real estate group has developed such massive projects as La Cantera, which includes a complete mixed use property. It has everything from a shopping mall, to aparments, housing, luxury hotel and top-of-line golf course. They have very deep pockets as well and maybe be able to privately finance this project.

[KevinFromTexas]

Great summary StoOgE, that's pretty much how I feel about it. I'm rooting for Stratus. I like the height and density of Trammel Crow and the green building. But I'm not crazy about the building designs. They look funny. Catellus, I actually am about 50/50 with Trammel Crow's proposals. I like the designs of Catellus' buildings. Not bad density either. But yeah, I want an exclamation point to the district. Forest City, good height on the Energy Control Center site. But I'm not really liking the designs. I think these would have been good designs for a bigger downtown. The designs look like "filler buildings" to me. This is going to be a very prominent area of downtown, so the designs should be something to show off. Simmons Vedder's project is just really strange. It's like a casino or something. And I have no idea what they're even really planning. Their presentation seems very vague. Stratus is far and away my favorite pick. Amazing density, great designs, wonderful height. And it'll truly offer something to downtown with the HEB grocery store. That right there is making me want it more than any of the others. And of course the designs are nice. I'm also liking their more detailed plan for pushing 2nd & 3rd all the way to West Avenue. I feel like Stratus' project will be much more effective at connecting the West End of downtown to everything else. That whole area is really going to come together. Again, the density is the best thing. As you mentioned, StoOgE, there aren't going to be many blocks left in downtown that can support this kind of density and height, so I say go for it. Go all out with it.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by JGFrisco

A question - if one is chosen, do they have to build everything? Suppose, say, TC is chosen...they build one building, then say the climate has changed and just stop.

What is the penalty for that, if anything?

I'm not sure that there would be a penalty. If anything, I would expect the end product to be even more than what we're seeing. Remember when Stratus was selected for their 15-story proposal for Block 21? Now they're digging a hole for a 478 foot, 36-story tower that is infinitely better than their bid proposal. Just think, if this is what Stratus has presented as their bid for the Green redevelopment, then just think of what might actually be built. I'm sure designs will be tweaked. Buildings maybe eliminated and that space added to others.

Amazing time to be living in Austin. I can't wait to see all this stuff happen.

[hismasterplan]

I heard talk of lots of low rise condo projects being canceled because they have trouble competing against the high rise condos. This true?

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by hismasterplan

I heard talk of lots of low rise condo projects being canceled because they have trouble competing against the high rise condos. This true?

I will say I don;t know. But I am always amazed at the general glee in negative speculation that runs rampant. I say if you keep saying things are going to go bad.... eventually they will. Guess it just depends on you outlook. If you keep saying thing will go great. Eventually they will. Guess it just depends on how you want to live!

[CHAPINM1]

How's the digging coming along on the W? I'm very anxious about this and the Astonian. Oh yeah, I'm guessing they're up to the 6th floor at the Astonian.

[zx14]

I hope that the Austonian will be starting the tower portion when I arive the first week of Aug. At the rate they are going it looks like they would be past that point. however I believe the finish of the base to starting the tower will take some time maybe a month.

[CHAPINM1]

Originally Posted by zx14

I hope that the Austonian will be starting the tower portion when I arive the first week of Aug. At the rate they are going it looks like they would be past that point. however I believe the finish of the base to starting the tower will take some time maybe a month.

I'm guessing they'll be done with the base by late June/early July, then it will probably take a few weeks for them to work on the transfer floor. I'd guess we should see the tower portion rise by early August easy...

[Aiphanes]

I saw that Green is developing the Ovation on 6th and Nueces...is this still going to be built? It says in the Seahold proposal that Construction starts in Summer 2008. 433 condos with pricing starting at $175k...

[KevinFromTexas]

Ovation is being developed by Novare and Andrews Urban. An article in the newspaper said it should break ground sometime in July (within 60s days is what they said). What Green is referring to, is the old Thomas Green Water Treatment Plant in downtown. It will be redeveloped by whatever developer is chosen to do the project. Stratus, Catellus, Trammell Crow, Forest City and Simmons Vedder are bidding for the project.

[Aiphanes]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Ovation is being developed by Novare and Andrews Urban. An article in the newspaper said it should break ground sometime in July (within 60s days is what they said). What Green is referring to, is the old Thomas Green Water Treatment Plant in downtown. It will be redeveloped by whatever developer is chosen to do the project. Stratus, Catellus, Trammell Crow, Forest City and Simmons Vedder are bidding for the project.

You need to move the Ovation to Approved instead of proposed.

http://www.urbanaustin.org/index.php/Ovation

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by Aiphanes

You need to move the Ovation to Approved instead of proposed.

http://www.urbanaustin.org/index.php/Ovation

Actually, no. Ovation is a proposal and will "officially" remain one until the City approves their site plan and releases site plan and building permits.

In fact, Ovation's site plan has expired and I'm not aware of any extension or new filing at this time.

[StoOgE]

Mayor was on 101x this morning talking about the Waller Creek flood tunnel finally breaking ground. Confirmed big chunks of downtown will be moved out of the flood plain and open for development. Is still going to Push the river walk type setting.

[Aiphanes]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

Actually, no. Ovation is a proposal and will "officially" remain one until the City approves their site plan and releases site plan and building permits.

In fact, Ovation's site plan has expired and I'm not aware of any extension or new filing at this time.

So why come on its web site and its other proposals to the city does it say that the Ovation has been approved and will be breaking ground in July 2008?

I am just saying if they are lying their proposal for the water treatment plant should be ignored.

[priller]

Went for a quick walk today, wanted to check briefly on how the buildings were coming along. First, the Four Seasons, finally setting up for the 2nd level:






The Austonian, working on the 6th level now, on the north side. Notice you can just see the Spring way on the left:




I see they've added signs for each floor. Very helpful! Especially with so many floors:




Altavida:




W -- Still digging. They had just one of the little drilling machines working today; the other one they were welding on it. Looks like some shoring of the sides has happened.




Spring -- Didn't walk that far, but I did notice it's starting to pop up in new places: