Huntsville updates

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by Colin Giersberg

I don't know if this has anything with VW or with the new Memphis - Atlanta highway, but I saw four ALDOT vehicles on Mooresville Rd. this afternoon. Three were parked (two were together and another was maybe 1/2 mile or so further north) and the fourth one was travelling north to a driveway where the new sewer line came through, where he turned into the driveway. One of the workers was looking at what appeared to be plans for a "project". There is a re-surfacing project scheduled for Mooresville Rd. beginning at Humphries Rd. and ending at US. 72, so this may have been the initial stakout for that, but I will admit, I did not see any stakes, and the "plans" that the worker was looking at did not look like any that I have seen for a re-surfacing project.

And the plot continues to thicken.
Regards, Colin

thanks for that tidbit Colin, I can't help but think you know more than you can tell. In any case don't jeopardize anything.

[SouthSky]

I am not sure if you all have seen this, but this should pique your interests.

http://www.southernautocorridor.com/News/NewsMay192008/tabid/126/Default.aspx

[Colin Giersberg]

thanks for that tidbit Colin, I can't help but think you know more than you can tell. In any case don't jeopardize anything.

I wish I did know more, but unfortunately, I don't. Being an ALDOT peon has its perks, but that isn't one of them. By the way, the Athens News Courier had an article quoting the same source that SouthSky has posted, but it was featured in the Wall Street Journal. If I hear of or see any interesting tidbits, I will post them here.

Regards Colin

[HSVTiger]

"John Q. Hammons said he's been happy with the success of the Embassy Suites, which connects with the Von Braun Center through an elevated walkway. He added that he plans to build one more hotel in Huntsville - when he finds the right site.

"I think that in the near future you're going to have a tremendous amount of action on the east side of the freeway, north and south of (I-565) going into downtown."

Hammons' company owns more than 200 properties in 40 states, with six hotels slated to open this year.

"We do not build any hotels without a convention center," he said."

That would probably indicate another downtown property,

[HSVTiger]

New progress with the Wann Springs project in Madison..
Huntsville Times

The projected billion-dollar development took its first official steps to becoming a reality Monday night when the City Council applied its new mixed-use zoning district for the first time.

Also Tuesday, the council unanimously approved rezoning ordinances requested from property owners Gayle Guy, William Farley Wann and the University of Alabama in Huntsville Foundation.

Alex Hardy, a Huntsville-based partner with Wann Springs, said the property sales will be completed by the end of the year.

The council changed the zoning for the 450-acre site from restricted industrial to the mixed-use district that allows developments to combine retail, office space and residential in one project.

The council also heard a first reading on an agreement between the city and Wann Springs Development Group for the project.

Basically, the agreement says the developers will pay for and build the roads, lay the water and sewer lines and finance the traffic signals that will be used.
Then, the city will reimburse the developers $1 million for every 100,000 square feet of completed construction up to $5 million.

"This is the way it should be done," said Jim Birchall, the city's bond attorney from Birmingham. "Usually, there is so much pressure on cities to pay for everything and the developers usually play one city off another, but Bob (Flowers) has not done that and Alex (Hardy) has not done that and I appreciate that."

The Council will hold a public hearing on the agreement before voting on it at the June 9 City Council meeting.

"This is a very big project - almost as big as Research Park including Bridge Street," said Planning Director Bob Atallo. "We've worked on this a year or more getting to this point and we've worked with planners and engineers from all over the Southeast and country and, really, this is a game changer for Madison."

Engineers finalizing plans

Flowers said engineers are finalizing the construction plans that will then have to be approved by the city. He said groundbreaking for the project is set to begin this summer.
Hardy said he believes the project will not only be good for Madison, but the entire region.

"I think this project shows a maturing of the entire market into a more metropolitan market," Hardy said.

For example, he said, there are 13 million square feet of office space in Madison County. Of that, 10 million is in Research Park, some is on South Memorial Parkway and other areas, with retail scattered around it.

"This project will have 3 million square feet of office space and that's a significant departure from what's been done in the past," Hardy said. "It's making our area more regional and metropolitan as a whole."

Now I'm not sure but the statement made by Mr. Atallo that this project is almost as big as Research Park is really not true, here are some facts about Research Park
3,843 Acres / 1,550 Hectares
285 Companies
25,000 Employees
175 Buildings
9.5 million Square Feet

What we know about Wann Springs
450 acres
800 residential units (probably apartments/condos)
A town center (similar to Providence) with a combined 520,000 sq. ft. of ground-floor retail and upper-level lofts.
2 million sq. ft. of office space
Another 1 million sq. ft. of medical office space
A 936,000 sq. ft. retail center (excluding the town center space)
A 150-200 room hotel
An 18-acre lake along with 50 acres of greenspace.

So Mr. Atallo check your giddiness at the door and re enter reality. A huge project no doubt but not on the scale of Research Park.

[HSVTiger]

And over on the east side of Huntsville..Harris Hills progress..

The planning commission forwarded a recommendation to the City Council to approve a major rezoning in the Chapman Mountain area for a multimillion-dollar proposed development. Cole Walker wants to turn several hundred acres of land near the intersection of Moores Mill Road and south of U.S. 72 into a retail, residential and commercial development.

City Councilman Mark Russell, whose district includes the area, recited several concerns raised at a recent neighborhood meeting. He asked for proper buffers from the proposed apartment complex, protections from traffic cutting through their neighborhood, assurances for proper drainage, and city assistance to Walker's desire to provide walking trails and greenways.

Howard said the major anchor stores - Walker has acknowledged talks with Target - could be several years from committing because of the economy. Planners said the state is designing an interchange for the Moores Mill Road/U.S. 72 intersection.

[TimCity2000]

almost as big as research park including bridge street?! haha, seriously, in what possible aspect is this true? nice side-by-side comparison of the two, hsvtiger. and madison wouldn't even be what it is today if not for its proximity to research park.

i wonder if hammons looked into one of the hotels at constellation, or if he would rather do something on his own?

also, when is the height limit issue supposed to be back on the agenda?

[PSMadison]

I've watched this forum for a long time and finally taken the time to register and (hopefully) contribute. Thanks to all of you for all the useful information.

Along those lines, construction started last week on the lot next to the HAIB (Hudson Alpha). Anyone got any info on what they're putting there?

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by PSMadison

I've watched this forum for a long time and finally taken the time to register and (hopefully) contribute. Thanks to all of you for all the useful information.

Along those lines, construction started last week on the lot next to the HAIB (Hudson Alpha). Anyone got any info on what they're putting there?

Welcome PSMadison!

Not sure about the construction, the Hudson Alpha is the center of the CRP
Biotech Campus (approx 120 acres). So there will be other Biotech companies
that will eventually cluster around HA. I think there are 12 companies already
in the HA building now.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by TimCity2000

almost as big as research park including bridge street?! haha, seriously, in what possible aspect is this true? nice side-by-side comparison of the two, hsvtiger. and madison wouldn't even be what it is today if not for its proximity to research park.

i wonder if hammons looked into one of the hotels at constellation, or if he would rather do something on his own?

also, when is the height limit issue supposed to be back on the agenda?

At one time there was talk that the Holiday Inn will be torn down and replaced with another high rise convention hotel. The two hotels at Constellation do not
have a Hammons connection at this point I don't believe.
Remember earlier the developer of Sweetwater claimed he had not heard of John Q.Hammons, (don't you hate when these greasy wannabe big shots lie?). Well it seems Mr. Hammons hasn't heard of them.
Hammons' company owns more than 200 properties in 40 states, with six hotels slated to open this year

[HSVTiger]

Is Sweetwater really sweet?

This from the Decatur Daily 5 weeks ago

Apr 20, 2008 (The Decatur Daily - McClatchy-Tribune Information Services via COMTEX) -- -- When city leaders in Augusta, Ga., got word Wednesday that a Bass Pro Shops was coming to town, they were all smiles.
Augusta's only expense comes as a result of Bass Pro locating in a voter-approved tax increment financing district, according to Walter Sprouse, executive director of the Development Authority of Richmond County. That means any increased property taxes resulting from the development will go toward infrastructure improvements in the area around the Bass Pro property.

Genesis USA Development LLC has proposed a development in Decatur at Interstate 65 and Alabama 20, to be called Sweetwater and to be anchored by a Bass Pro. A different deal

Despite the development's name, the deal Decatur City Council is considering is not as sweet as the one landed by Augusta.

To reel in Bass Pro, developer Genesis USA has said Decatur City Council must buy the $2.5 million in land the store will sit on. In Augusta, the city contributed nothing for the land.

Genesis USA is requiring that the city commit to 100 percent of the sales tax to be generated by Bass Pro for 20 years. The money will go toward paying off $36 million in bonds for construction of the Bass Pro store.

Augusta gets to keep all sales tax from its Bass Pro and, according to Sprouse, is not contributing toward construction of the store, estimated at between 100,000 and 120,000 square feet.

Genesis USA wants Decatur to pay $11.5 million for relocating Tennessee Valley Authority power lines, rerouting roads and upgrading Alabama 20. The only infrastructure payments Augusta has had to pay for its Bass Pro development will come from increased property tax revenue.

"The sales tax you are going to generate is far, far greater than the property tax," said Sprouse.

"The city says we will fore go what little bit of property tax you would normally pay to get the sales tax."

In the proposed deal with Decatur, the sales tax goes toward repaying Bass Pro's construction debt.

Any sales tax Decatur sees from the development in the first 20 years will come not from Bass Pro, but from any secondary retail development.

Genesis USA also wants Decatur to pay an additional $3.75 million for infrastructure improvements for another part of the Sweetwater development if and when retailers commit to locating there.

Every site different

"Every site that Bass looks at, and what incentive package there is, is driven by the location and a lot of different factors," said Barney Lovelace, lawyer for Genesis USA.

He said the incentive package being negotiated by the city and Genesis requires the city to pay comparable or lesser amounts than in many other cities.

"I don't know the details on Augusta, but I promise you the devil's in the details," Lovelace said. "They are all done differently. Different mechanisms, different incentive structures, are used for every Bass all over the country. Every one is different."

Bass Pro officials did not immediately return calls Friday. In past contacts, they have declined comment beyond press releases.

"I'm assuming there are certain locations that have more attraction to Bass than others," Lovelace said. "I think it's more of how bad Bass wants to be in a location."

Decatur Mayor Don Kyle said he was not familiar with the details of the Augusta transaction, but he felt the incentives Decatur is considering are in line with other new Bass Pro stores.

"I'm comfortable with the developer here," Kyle said Friday. "The terms aren't atypical to a number of other locations for new Bass Pro stores."

Sprouse said the developer involved in the Augusta project had an economic incentive to donate property to lure Bass Pro.

"The private developer that owns the property, he's going to make his money on everybody else that wants to be next door to Bass Pro Shop," Sprouse said. "That was between the developer and Bass Pro. That's nothing that we got involved in because we didn't have to go out and buy any land and give it to Bass Pro."

The city has had minimal infrastructure obligations for the property, Sprouse said.

"Pretty much all the infrastructure was developer-funded," he said. "It really worked out fine for us. The infrastructure was basically there."

Sprouse said Augusta's good fortune does not mean Decatur is getting a bad deal. He suspected that the developer involved in attracting Bass Pro to Augusta had unique incentives to make the deal work.

"Comparing Augusta and Decatur may be comparing apples and oranges," Sprouse said. "I don't want to say the developer here was desperate, but he had lost some prospective tenants," after he had invested in infrastructure.

Difficult location

Kyle said the developer of Sweetwater has unique challenges on Alabama 20.

"It's a little bit of a difficult location because it's surrounded with (Wheeler Wildlife) Refuge and water, and there's not a whole lot of rooftops right next to the area, plus the complicated interchange makes it a more challenging project than some," Kyle said. "With those things in mind, and perhaps not the expectation of as rapid development as you might have in Augusta, I think we've probably done pretty well."

Sprouse was not involved in the negotiations between the developer and Bass Pro because they were private, and because neither requested a sales-tax contribution from the city or county, but he said he assumes Bass Pro asked the developer to donate the land for the store.

"I'm guessing that (the developer) is jumping up and down to accept even if Bass Pro said it wanted 10 acres for free," Sprouse said. "Anybody with half a brain would do it because of all the other retailers who will come in. Stores are going to be lined up saying they want to be next to Bass Pro. That's where the developer is going to make his money."

Incentives the norm

Unlike Augusta, most communities that have lured Bass Pros have forfeited at least some sales tax as an incentive.

A Bass Pro store is slated to open in Rossford, Ohio, this month. The county agreed to rebate 75 percent of its sales tax for 10 years, and the state contributed $1 million to build an outdoor education center adjoining the store.

Prattville attracted a Bass Pro and related development with a $47 million incentive package. The proposed Decatur deal is modeled after the one in Prattville, where the doors of the Bass Pro opened in August. Under construction

Another Bass Pro is under construction in Leeds, near Birmingham.

Several governments combined to issue about $33 million in bonds that will be paid off through sales tax revenue collected from a district that will include Bass Pro.

Bossier City, La.; Broken Arrow, Okla.; Pearl, Miss., and Garland, Texas, have all paid between $25 million and $33 million for Bass Pro Shops to locate in their cities, according to published reports.

Lovelace said the deal in Decatur compares well to other Bass Pro-anchored developments.

When will they vote?

With officials hoping to break ground on the Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World by June 1, it was not clear Friday when the Decatur City Council would formalize a development agreement for the project. Mayor Don Kyle said he hopes to receive the final draft of the agreement by Monday morning, but it would not be ready for the council to hold a work session that day. If approved, the document would formalize a deal between the city, Bass Pro and Genesis USA Development. Kyle said he expects smaller, side agreements for matters that impact only the city and Genesis.

[HSVTiger]

And this interesting tale from last year, why does Bass Pro do this?
Pick a site and build your store, yeah they are wonderful and everything but frankly the market is oversaturated.
http://smartcitymemphis.blogspot.com/2007/05/cities-take-bass-pro-shop-hook-line-and.html
There’s a flyer going round that objects to the Bass Pro Shop agreement in the old arena, calling it a “sweetheart deal” and questioning the tens of millions of dollars of public incentives and the wisdom of using waterfront property for it.

No, the flyer’s not circulating in Memphis. Yet.

Actually, the flyer is circulating in Buffalo, where nagging questions about the superstore continue to dog the project, despite politicians and economic development types chasing the latest “silver bullet” answer to turning around downtown Buffalo.

Flyer Fishing

So far, there’s no flyers like it in Memphis, but then again, Buffalo has been trying since 2004 to get Bass Pro Shop to convert its promises about a megastore into an honest-to-goodness agreement.

The truth is that no retailer does a better job of reeling in big time public incentives than Bass Pro Shop. Its ability to hook hungry cities is legend in its industry, and it’s remarkable how many cities continue to be willing to give away tax dollars for a retail store.

Along the way, the company has become expert in the fine art of political manipulation, as it participates in the initial big announcement that raises expectations and puts politicians on the line to deliver a deal, almost any deal.

Mega-promises

Buffalo is a case in point. With great media fanfare, politicians – including the governor of New York and the mayor of Buffalo – Bass Pro Shop announced that a vacant arena (beginning to sound familiar?) would be converted into a huge 250,000 square foot megastore, becoming the dynamic anchor for new downtown development.

After these kinds of high-profile announcements are made – with all their attendant overblown political rhetoric – it becomes all but impossible for politicians to rethink the wisdom of the deal, much less throw in the towel. As a result, the negotiating table is decidedly weighted toward the retailer, because the public sector’s priority is to save face and to do it, it needs to deliver a deal and declare victory.

You can see how it plays out in Buffalo. There, Bass Pro Shop kept the city government on the hook for years with promises that a redevelopment plan for the old arena was just around the corner. And yet, deadline after deadline passed with no progress as the company asked for more concessions. Meanwhile, the proposed project was scaled back 60 percent to 100,000 square feet.

[HSVTiger]

Gander Mountain which has a store in Huntsville isn't huge and not museum quality fancy like Bass Pro (no real WOW! factor), but they do have a huge selection of items.
What's even better, no incentives by the city to locate here and they re- modeled an old Sam's Club building and put it back on the sales tax roll.
Would it be great to have a Cabela's or Bass Pro? Sure but you have to wonder
about cities paying retailers to come to your town, and then get jerked around by them. In the end it probably is worth it but it's a painful trip for most communities it seems.

[HSVTiger]

Over at the US 72/I-65 interchange in Athens.
Rezoning for a proposed Hampton Inn near Interstate 65 and U.S. 72.

[HSVTiger]

probably not related to the ALDOT sightings posted by Colin but more activity
out that way.

By BRIAN LAWSON
Times Business Writer [email protected]
Teledyne Brown Engineering is expanding its nuclear engineering and manufacturing work, opening a 200,000-square-foot plant and landing a $92 million contract to make service modules that aid uranium enrichment.

Teledyne expects to add about 200 employees to work at the plant, ranging from engineering to assembly to welding jobs.

The company will hold a ribbon-cutting today at the site, off Interstate 65 north of I-565 and Mooresville Road. U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Mobile, is slated to speak.

[TimCity2000]

At one time there was talk that the Holiday Inn will be torn down and replaced with another high rise convention hotel.

I would love to see this happen!

[Colin Giersberg]

Coming home today, there were two ALDOT vehicles parked on the side of Mooresville Rd. near Humphries, with surveying equipment. No more information is known.

Regards, Colin

[HSVTiger]

From WAFF

Decatur Mayor Don Kyle says John Hammons hotels made a request the city wasn't willing to go along with.

"Told us they thought they needed us to provide some sort of incentives to help there model workout that was surprising to us," says Mayor Kyle.

Now the city is left to find another hotel developer.

Without it, Kyle says, this site won't generate as much revenue.

"When you talk about premier hotel companies you can't get much better than the Hammons group. But when you talk about money it's the same whether its them or somebody else," sys Kyle.

Since the hotel has pulled out what does that mean for Bass Pro Shops and other development?

For now, it's on hold.

That's ok with Larry Hughes who works at Townson's Bait and Tackle, a local Decatur supply store.

Townsons sells everything a fisherman needs.

And money taken in there helps keep small business alive.

"We're closer. Why burn the gas you can come here. All you need to fish with anytime live bait or artificial bait," says Hughes.

Hammons says he's interested in locating a hotel in Huntsville.

Bass Pro still intends to come to the development, wherever it is built.

You can contact Elizabeth at [email protected]

[g-man435]

So, it's on hold because some hotel developer won't build something? That's stupid. Why not just call up Marriott or Hilton to build a hotel there instead? They have plenty of money. Oh and don't you just love my avatar? Good thing the project here that will include a Bass Pro Shops is moving forward.

[TimCity2000]

Maybe I missed something... when did this turn into a Greenville vs. Huntsville thread?