Huntsville updates

[-=skywalker=-]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

a good place to start
http://www.landtrust-hsv.org/

Cool, thanks HSVTiger, i'll check it out when i get more time...any other links or info would be appreciated

[Colin Giersberg]

According to the Athens News Courrier website,


Huntsville creating megasite?
As state tries to lure VW, flurry of activity occurring in annexed area near Greenbrier

By Karen Middleton, Jean Cole
[email protected]


Surveyors with the Alabama Department of Transportation appeared en mass Tuesday on Powell Road and Old Highway 20, just northeast of Greenbrier Road.


The city of Huntsville recently annexed about 5,000 acres surrounded by Powell, Old 20 and Segars Road. At least seven sport utility vehicles with state of Alabama tags and at least 10 ALDOT employees were surveying land, bridges, roads and other topography along Powell and Old 20. No one could – or would—state the purpose for the surveying.

One worker said they were doing a “corridor study.” Two years ago, ALDOT surveyors “staked out” the long-proposed Memphis-to-Atlanta highway running near Belle Mina.

Another said the ALDOT sent them to survey but did not share the reason for the work.

One said he wasn’t allowed to tell the reason.

Another said the workers were surveying, referred questions to Division Engineer Johnny Harris and said he couldn’t give the reason for the work because “everybody’s freaking out,” he said.

When asked who, specifically, was “freaking out,” he said, “everybody in the state – everybody in Montgomery.”

Joe Jones, an ALDOT worker on the scene, said, “We’re on a need-to-know basis.” However, Jones said the crews were “surveying all the way back to I-565.”

“They are surveying for potential industrial development in that area,” said Harris, from his ALDOT office in Guntersville. “But I cannot tell you for whom, even if I did know.”

Limestone County Commission Chairman David Seibert was similarly mum.

“I can’t comment,” Seibert said. “That’s all I can tell you.”

District 2 Commissioner Gerald Barksdale, whose road crews were clearing brush from beneath a bridge on Old Highway 20, said, “I have no idea what’s going on there.”

The property in question is owned by Dr. John Sewell of Belle Mina. Sewell, also, said he didn’t know what the state highway department surveyors were doing along the property.

Meanwhile, Huntsville has been approved for incentive financing to attract new industry.

The Legislature passed and sent to Gov. Bob Riley a bill that would allow Huntsville to more than double the amount of money that can be leveraged through Tax Increment Financing districts, according to a story in Tuesday’s Huntsville Times.


I figureed that Huntsville might have something up their sleeve when they were annexing the land in Limestone County. I wonder if they are privy to VW's plans, because it sure seems ironic that VW announced Alabama as a possible site right after Hunstville began its annexations. Time will tell.

Regards, Colin

[neilson]

Originally Posted by Colin Giersberg

According to the Athens News Courrier website,


Huntsville creating megasite?
As state tries to lure VW, flurry of activity occurring in annexed area near Greenbrier

By Karen Middleton, Jean Cole
[email protected]


Surveyors with the Alabama Department of Transportation appeared en mass Tuesday on Powell Road and Old Highway 20, just northeast of Greenbrier Road.


The city of Huntsville recently annexed about 5,000 acres surrounded by Powell, Old 20 and Segars Road. At least seven sport utility vehicles with state of Alabama tags and at least 10 ALDOT employees were surveying land, bridges, roads and other topography along Powell and Old 20. No one could – or would—state the purpose for the surveying.

One worker said they were doing a “corridor study.” Two years ago, ALDOT surveyors “staked out” the long-proposed Memphis-to-Atlanta highway running near Belle Mina.

Another said the ALDOT sent them to survey but did not share the reason for the work.

One said he wasn’t allowed to tell the reason.

Another said the workers were surveying, referred questions to Division Engineer Johnny Harris and said he couldn’t give the reason for the work because “everybody’s freaking out,” he said.

When asked who, specifically, was “freaking out,” he said, “everybody in the state – everybody in Montgomery.”

Joe Jones, an ALDOT worker on the scene, said, “We’re on a need-to-know basis.” However, Jones said the crews were “surveying all the way back to I-565.”

“They are surveying for potential industrial development in that area,” said Harris, from his ALDOT office in Guntersville. “But I cannot tell you for whom, even if I did know.”

Limestone County Commission Chairman David Seibert was similarly mum.

“I can’t comment,” Seibert said. “That’s all I can tell you.”

District 2 Commissioner Gerald Barksdale, whose road crews were clearing brush from beneath a bridge on Old Highway 20, said, “I have no idea what’s going on there.”

The property in question is owned by Dr. John Sewell of Belle Mina. Sewell, also, said he didn’t know what the state highway department surveyors were doing along the property.

Meanwhile, Huntsville has been approved for incentive financing to attract new industry.

The Legislature passed and sent to Gov. Bob Riley a bill that would allow Huntsville to more than double the amount of money that can be leveraged through Tax Increment Financing districts, according to a story in Tuesday’s Huntsville Times.


I figureed that Huntsville might have something up their sleeve when they were annexing the land in Limestone County. I wonder if they are privy to VW's plans, because it sure seems ironic that VW announced Alabama as a possible site right after Hunstville began its annexations. Time will tell.

Regards, Colin

I'll be damned.

They're actually gonna build the Highway. Thank you Volkswagen!

[g-man435]

Originally Posted by neilson

I'll be damned.

They're actually gonna build the Highway. Thank you Volkswagen!

So, you're thinking Volkswagen is coming and they're going to build a highway just because a few surveyors were out there? It's a corridor study. They happen several years before a highway is built.

[g-man435]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

whatever, just do something, if the vote is to put caps on height then don't expect anything. Why stop at 15? Why not vote that we are stupid?

"Council members have expressed an interest in setting a maximum 16-story height limit or none. The council could vote on the question tonight.

The issue has stirred a sharp divide between developers who oppose an overall height restriction and downtown neighborhood and historic interests who don't want tall buildings overshadowing their property.

City Council President Glenn Watson said Wednesday a 16-story limit seems like a reasonable compromise.

"If we voted for 10, we would be, in essence, stopping the Constellation development," Watson said.

Watson said Constellation developer Scott McLain and his business partner want to construct at least a 15-story building as part of the retail/twin-hotel/residential complex proposed for the former Market Square Mall site at Clinton Avenue and Memorial Parkway."

I didn't know highrises made or break a downtown. Interesting how you and several other forum members feel that they do. The only reason you or anybody else wants skyscrapers downtown is so you can say my city is better than yours in the skyline department. Whoopie doo. Does Charleston or Savannah have highrises?

[daveyp]

Originally Posted by g-man435

I didn't know highrises made or break a downtown. Interesting how you and several other forum members feel that they do. The only reason you or anybody else wants skyscrapers downtown is so you can say my city is better than yours in the skyline department. Whoopie doo. Does Charleston or Savannah have highrises?

i think you have us confused with mobile. we'll be sure to warn them about how negative you are!

but seriously i think all of us appreciate hsv's downtown, just don't want its development to be stifled by the good ol' boys. in fact, hsv's downtown is really quite awesome compared to other cities i've lived in (including greenville; excluding asheville and maybe LA, despite what people say).

great park with fun events that take place all summer (and drum circles every sunday), somewhat decent restaurants, good bars with what is honestly an excellent music scene compared even to bham, chatty, etc. the only thing i see that's really missing for now is affordable condos/apts and above-average beer!

[neilson]

Originally Posted by g-man435

So, you're thinking Volkswagen is coming and they're going to build a highway just because a few surveyors were out there? It's a corridor study. They happen several years before a highway is built.

It's more progress then anything we've seen with the Southern Bypass segment in years. That's optimism enough for me.

[HSVTiger]

Thursday night, the council delayed action on a controversial proposal dealing with height limits for downtown buildings.

Before a packed audience and with only three of its five members attending, the council sent a proposed zoning change dealing with building heights back to the Planning Commission for further study.

The move marks the third time the council passed the height issue back to planning board.

The Planning Commission has consistently recommended a 10-story height limit in core downtown, with lower height caps in areas near historic districts and residential neighborhoods.

The City Council has the final say on zoning issues such as building heights.

Councilman Richard Showers was absent to tend to his gravely ill mother, and Councilwoman Sandra Moon had a prior commitment. It was the second consecutive absence for each of them for the same reasons.

The building height issue drew a crowd of downtown residents and developers.

Council members essentially had three options before them: sticking with the 10-story limit in core downtown; setting a 16-story cap; or having no height limit.

Most of the speakers Thursday night seemed wary of unlimited height allowances, saying it could ruin the appeal of Huntsville's historic downtown. Many suggested protective buffers in core downtown and allowing the tall buildings to flourish on the peripheral.

"The last time I looked, the city has 205 square miles. We're asking your consideration for a 13-block area," said attorney and downtown resident Jerry Barclay.

Architect and lifelong resident Martin Scisson supports the buffers but asked for greater height-limit considerations under certain exceptions. City parking requirements limit the size of downtown buildings, he said.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by neilson

It's more progress then anything we've seen with the Southern Bypass segment in years. That's optimism enough for me.

I would guess this has little to do with the Memphis/Huntsville/Atlanta freeway initially(the Southern Bypass wil be built first). This is specific to Volkswagen and information they wanted after
visiting the sites last week. For ALDOT to send that many people on such a thing means the order came from the Governors office I would bet.
They may want major road improvements to I-565 to avoid the I-65/I-565
interchange, basically a dedicated road to the plant site. All speculation of course.
Lets pretend.. could Volkswagen as crazy as it sounds be planning to build
two plants, one on each side of I-65, one for VW the other for Audi/Porsche?


Something to look for in the future although it may be unmarked.. a Lufthansa 747 Freighter at Huntsville International Airport.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by g-man435

I didn't know highrises made or break a downtown. Interesting how you and several other forum members feel that they do. The only reason you or anybody else wants skyscrapers downtown is so you can say my city is better than yours in the skyline department. Whoopie doo. Does Charleston or Savannah have highrises?

Ahh g-man your just frustrated because every high rise project in Greenville has been delayed or cancelled or so it seems. That is further along than we are, the height limit will kill any hope or potential before it ever gets started.
(as you see in the above post this thing was sent back because everyone knows this is a stupid idea, it just needs to be limited to a small area)

[-=skywalker=-]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

Thursday night, the council delayed action on a controversial proposal dealing with height limits for downtown buildings.

Before a packed audience and with only three of its five members attending, the council sent a proposed zoning change dealing with building heights back to the Planning Commission for further study.

The move marks the third time the council passed the height issue back to planning board.

The Planning Commission has consistently recommended a 10-story height limit in core downtown, with lower height caps in areas near historic districts and residential neighborhoods.

The City Council has the final say on zoning issues such as building heights.

Councilman Richard Showers was absent to tend to his gravely ill mother, and Councilwoman Sandra Moon had a prior commitment. It was the second consecutive absence for each of them for the same reasons.

The building height issue drew a crowd of downtown residents and developers.

Council members essentially had three options before them: sticking with the 10-story limit in core downtown; setting a 16-story cap; or having no height limit.

Most of the speakers Thursday night seemed wary of unlimited height allowances, saying it could ruin the appeal of Huntsville's historic downtown. Many suggested protective buffers in core downtown and allowing the tall buildings to flourish on the peripheral.

"The last time I looked, the city has 205 square miles. We're asking your consideration for a 13-block area," said attorney and downtown resident Jerry Barclay.

Architect and lifelong resident Martin Scisson supports the buffers but asked for greater height-limit considerations under certain exceptions. City parking requirements limit the size of downtown buildings, he said.

I'd have no problem with a buffer zone on the east, southeast side of downtown...5 Points is a nice area and perfect the way it is...but anything west or northwest of Big Spring Park should have a green light...IE Constellation for example, it's well enough away from the historic neighborhoods, a height limit there would make absolutely no sense.

[Jacknah]

Originally Posted by g-man435

I didn't know highrises made or break a downtown. Interesting how you and several other forum members feel that they do. The only reason you or anybody else wants skyscrapers downtown is so you can say my city is better than yours in the skyline department. Whoopie doo. Does Charleston or Savannah have highrises?

A government-imposed height limit artificially keeps the prices of land downtown high, due to the necessity of having to use more surface area for buildings and people, which reduces the amount of surface area available, which of course, limits the amount of people and businesses who can afford to move into downtown. Basic economics.

Those who oppose lifting the restrictions are probably owners of real estate in the area who want height limitations in order to raise the prices of their real estate higher than they would be in a free market, though they would not admit it publicly. If the city council or planning commission tries to keep height limits down, it's probably a safe bet that there some in these organizations are colluding behind the scenes with these real estate owners in the good-ole boy network for kickbacks or are owners themselves. Of course if a developer comes in and can offer a higher bribe under the table, then the restrictions will be lifted. The claims that height limits are for beautification reasons are mostly just a smokescreen to throw the public off of what's really going on.

[Huntsvillenative]

I can totally understand the height limits in the old downtown district where all the historical homes are. (I love to go walking through there) But the area west of the courthouse across from Big Spring and the VBC should not have any height limits at all. That is not "old Huntsville" and should be where the city wants to build the most for expanding downtown. There's enough space to build outwards going west and north of downtown. If they built a 20+ story building west of the VBC (where the new Constellation will be) it would not draw a shadow or hang over the old downtown area. It would be far enough away.

I personally would love to see H'ville build a 30+ story mixed-use building as a signature building in downtown and then build 15-20 story building around it. Memphis is about to build a 40+ skyscraper mixed-use project on the river with a Hyatt hotel, condos and office space with an upscale restaurant all inside it. Huntsville needs to take this direction.

[Huntsvillenative]

Originally Posted by Jacknah

Those who oppose lifting the restrictions are probably owners of real estate in the area who want height limitations in order to raise the prices of their real estate higher than they would be in a free market, though they would not admit it publicly. If the city council or planning commission tries to keep height limits down, it's probably a safe bet that there some in these organizations are colluding behind the scenes with these real estate owners in the good-ole boy network for kickbacks or are owners themselves. Of course if a developer comes in and can offer a higher bribe under the table, then the restrictions will be lifted. The claims that height limits are for beautification reasons are mostly just a smokescreen to throw the public off of what's really going on.

I totally agree with this 100%. You hit the nail on the head with that statement.

[g-man435]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

Ahh g-man your just frustrated because every high rise project in Greenville has been delayed or cancelled or so it seems. That is further along than we are, the height limit will kill any hope or potential before it ever gets started.
(as you see in the above post this thing was sent back because everyone knows this is a stupid idea, it just needs to be limited to a small area)

Not really. I just don't understand why people think they need a skyline to make themselves feel better than everybody else. Who cares if you don't have a skyline. I sure don't. I don't visit cities to look at their skyscrapers. I visit cities because of the amenities they offer and the beauty of the area. Do you think any of the tourists that visit Charleston or Savannah care that they don't have highrises? I sure don't. I will say that I support getting rid of the height restriction Huntsville has in place for its downtown, but it still doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you guys have a skyline or not. It's still a great city either way.

[jmanhsv]

Originally Posted by g-man435

Do you think any of the tourists that visit Charleston or Savannah care that they don't have highrises? I sure don't.

Well, that's the thing-- Huntsville isn't another Charleston or Savannah. Tourists don't just come to Huntsville to see our "historic" downtown; most of them come to see Space Center, which, ironically, has the 35-story Saturn V as its signature element. And while those two cities have embraced their historic past, Huntsville hasn't-- we have embraced our ability to modernize and progress, and I think a maximum height limit in the CBD would be a step backwards. But the staggered limits near the historic districts (say, east of Franklin/Washington) can stay- that's fine with me. And I think it's a good compromise.

And for that argument that "developers can just build somewhere else" like the Parkway or west of downtown- has anybody taken a minute to realize how weird that would look? And why create a brand new "skyline" when we can improve and add on to the one we've already got?

I just don't see what the big deal is... Chattanooga has 20+ story buildings, and its downtown isn't any worse because of a few shadows. And, I don't think anyone will disagree about this: their downtown is still way better than ours.

[HSVTiger]

This is not too surprising, Bass Pro is famous for leaving communities on "the hook". This project will happen just not at the pace everyone proclaimed at the beginning.

By Evan Belanger, The Decatur Daily, Ala.McClatchy-Tribune Regional News
May 22--While engineers filed site plans last month for the proposed Sweetwater hotel and convention center, the Decatur Planning Commission did not consider the items during its meeting.

Instead, the plans were removed from the agenda before the Tuesday meeting, at the developer's request.

A spokeswoman for the Planning Department said the developer intends to present the plans later in conjunction with plans for the proposed Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World at Sweetwater. She said the delay was part of a cost-saving effort by the developer.

While the hotel plans were delayed, the Planning Commission did act on other Sweetwater requests. Members approved a number of property subdivisions and a minor plat.

The changes do not formalize the pending project, but they do prepare the land to be sold for the development's first phase, a city official said.

Proposed by Genesis U.S.A. Development, Sweetwater is expected to develop 536 acres at Alabama 20 and Interstate 65 over the next eight to 10 years.

Its $200 million, 125-acre first phase -- portions of which could be completed next year -- would include the Bass Pro, a major hotel and convention center, and 225,000 square feet of additional retail space.

Developers have not yet released the name of the hotel.

While the City Council approved letters of intent for the development more than nine weeks ago, it was not clear this week when the council would consider binding contracts to formalize the development.

After speaking with city attorney Herman Marks, District 3 Councilman Gary Hammon said legal teams are still working on the documents and they would be finished soon.

'Hearing that for a month'

"But I've been hearing that for a month," Hammon said.

The city is expected to provide $14 million for infrastructure at the site and pledge another $36 million in Bass Pro sales-tax revenue to help pay for that building's construction.

City officials say Sweetwater would be an important first step to developing Decatur's Limestone County annex. Sweetwater developers estimate the Bass Pro and the hotel alone will create more than 650 local jobs.

[marvingardns]

It does not surprise me that there will be delays in the kickoff of some of these projects. Sure Huntsville is 'booming,' but Bass Pro Shops is probably going through a slowdown in other parts of the country. The same goes for these hotels and retailers. It takes financial health in other markets to provide the resources to expand into other markets such as Huntsville. Building in Huntsville is just not entirely dependent on the attractiveness of our market.

We're in a slowdown right now, but take heart that once we've realized we've gone through two quarters of negative growth, the recession is more than likely over already. Then we can expect these projects to pick up again. Keep in mind that a lot got done since the last recession in Huntsville: Providence, Bridge Street, two Target-anchored mega-retail sites, 301 Holmes, downtown livening up like its never been, etc. etc. I look forward to when this recession ends and we can get back to some major change.

[Colin Giersberg]

I don't know if this has anything with VW or with the new Memphis - Atlanta highway, but I saw four ALDOT vehicles on Mooresville Rd. this afternoon. Three were parked (two were together and another was maybe 1/2 mile or so further north) and the fourth one was travelling north to a driveway where the new sewer line came through, where he turned into the driveway. One of the workers was looking at what appeared to be plans for a "project". There is a re-surfacing project scheduled for Mooresville Rd. beginning at Humphries Rd. and ending at US. 72, so this may have been the initial stakout for that, but I will admit, I did not see any stakes, and the "plans" that the worker was looking at did not look like any that I have seen for a re-surfacing project.

And the plot continues to thicken.
Regards, Colin

[HSVTiger]

I think this project is officially on shaky ground

John Q. Hammons, the developer slated to build a multimillion-dollar hotel at Decatur's massive Sweetwater development, said Tuesday he's decided not to be part of the project.
"I decided negative on that position," said Hammons, CEO and chairman of John Q. Hammons Hotels Inc. "I pulled out, looked at the east side of the interstate, but I couldn't find a site that I liked.
"I continue to be interested in Huntsville, Ala., but I have not yet satisfied myself with the right spot."
In mid-March, Decatur officials announced plans for Sweetwater, a $1.3 billion mixed-use project at the corner of Interstate 65 and Alabama 20. Plans call for retail, entertainment, office and residential development on the 540-acre site.
Earlier this month, a project engineer for Sweetwater's developers, Genesis U.S.A. or Tyler, Texas, said Hammons planned to build a hotel at the site.
Last week, the developers pulled site plans for the project from the Decatur Planning Commission's agenda, the Decatur Daily reported

On the positive side at least Hammons is still interested in putting another property somewhere in the Huntsville area.