AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[bgrn198]

Listen i'm not going to argue about it and no i'm not a liar and I think you're a jerk for attacking us and calling us liars all you do is attack us because we don't agree with you and you can call me a liar untill your blew in the face and it won't change my views you have an oppinion and I have an oppinion.

[M1EK]

It's not an opinion that major media outlets were constantly telling voters that the new (phase 1) projects were going to be toll roads. It's a fact. An inconvenient one for you know-nothings, but still a fact.

And when you've been conclusively corrected on it but continue to say something you now know to be false, you are simply a liar.

[alexjon]

Let them keep going, M1EK. They'll end up moving, which is good for us all.

[M1EK]

The most likely scenario, actually, is that irresponsible politicians jump on board the know-nothing train and re-establish "business as usual but worse" - i.e. even larger contributions from non-drivers (and urban drivers) for the benefit of suburban commuters who ought to be paying their own damn bills.

[alexjon]

The sad thing is that I heard about this a long time ago when the suburbanites were bitching about it ad nauseum and my grandmother kept saying "Just means we'll get toll roads in San Antonio eventually."

But selective memory on the part of the "Suburbs > Cities" set, I guess.

[KevinFromTexas]

I don't even remember what you guys were arguing over. lol Toll roads had been in the media before it was voted on. It was a pretty big headline. It wasn't like they sprung it on us. Citizens voted against light rail, so now we're stuck with miles of toll roads. Don't be too surprised.

So now that it's been shown that the media did in fact say there would be toll roads, can you guys give it a rest? M1EK, calling people liars doesn't get anything done. I know you're trying to point out incorrect info and make sure the facts are straight and shielding people from false info, but calling people liars isn't going to get make them see your point. As for you guys that keep hanging on to something, let it go.

As for 'tolls' not being in the wording for the bond election, don't blame M1EK, blame the people who wrote it that way. Yes, it wasn't exactly clear on the ballot, but again the media was clear it was coming. Like I said, don't be too surprised.

Arguing on the forum is so petty and pointless. And there are some people you just can not win an argument with. Believe me, be on the forum for 9 years like me, and you'll eventually learn it.

[M1EK]

Kevin, I'm not trying to convince those two guys - they know exactly what they're doing. I'm trying to make sure that nobody reading is misinformed into thinking that this is a disagreement - it's not. They're lying; they want people to be misinformed because it fits in with the goals of the anti-toll crusaders.

One thing I know from years and years on the internet is that there's 10-100-1000 people reading for every one posting; and 'truthy' lies have a way of travelling quicker than the actual truth.

So again, for the record, nobody was misled back then - the roads were quite obviously going to be toll roads from day one.

[NormalgeNyus]

Honestly i think the only real misinformation out there is from the pro tollers that want to feed outside company's U.S. dollars to eventually run American paid for roads. They claim that tolls are our only option. which is a complete lie in itself. I know for a fact that these brand new roads were going to be tolls. and yes the information in the media and on the ballots was unclear if these tolls were going to be perm. or just tolled long enough to pay off the roads. Many other cities get roads funded with out using tolls. and with us having low taxes and cheaper then average gas. I don't see no reason tolls are required. Now we i think most austinite don't want is to a toll to drive on a road they already paid for and drive on for free anyway. The smart thing to do is keep the toll dollars local(not have a company from spain) run our tolls. so we can use the money to fund other roads. or you can leave the tolls on just long enough to have the road paid for then make it a free road. there is NO NEED for tolls and anyone who says tolls are our only option is the TRUE liar. Read the facts and listen to the public. The PUBLIC does not want TOLLS and the public does not want to get doubled taxed on its roads.

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by NormalgeNyus

Honestly i think the only real misinformation out there is from the pro tollers that want to feed outside company's U.S. dollars to eventually run American paid for roads. They claim that tolls are our only option. which is a complete lie in itself. I know for a fact that these brand new roads were going to be tolls. and yes the information in the media and on the ballots was unclear if these tolls were going to be perm. or just tolled long enough to pay off the roads. Many other cities get roads funded with out using tolls. and with us having low taxes and cheaper then average gas. I don't see no reason tolls are required. Now we i think most austinite don't want is to a toll to drive on a road they already paid for and drive on for free anyway. The smart thing to do is keep the toll dollars local(not have a company from spain) run our tolls. so we can use the money to fund other roads. or you can leave the tolls on just long enough to have the road paid for then make it a free road. there is NO NEED for tolls and anyone who says tolls are our only option is the TRUE liar. Read the facts and listen to the public. The PUBLIC does not want TOLLS and the public does not want to get doubled taxed on its roads.

Make it so that people who don't even drive are free from paying for roads and I'll gladly support your assertions, here.

Also, a lot of roads are paid for via sales and gas taxes elsewhere, so your mention of lower taxes is surprisingly blind to the reality of why tolls are a good idea at this point.

Tolls are also good in that they keep road usage by those who really don't want to use the road to a dull roar. When traffic is the way it is now, you really should do something.

Finally, Austin shouldn't feel it's so special. It's such a "green" city, so having tolls like many larger and big cities in the region is in line with its goals of becoming a truly green city rather than a mere impostor.

[worldcreator]

M1EK (aka angry Homer face)

Like I already said, there would be no argument had they used the word TOLL in the verbiage. Or just mentioned: TTA, SH130, SH45... It would have been really easy. I take it you will never have any way of proving WHY they didn't?? What are the "legal reasons" you speak of LIAR!!!

It's apparent that contract wording means nothing to you. I assume that when YOU buy anything that requires a contract, you don't actually read it but just accept what the salesperson tells you eh? Heck why put it in writing? That would be too direct!

[worldcreator]

Originally Posted by alexjon

Make it so that people who don't even drive are free from paying for roads and I'll gladly support your assertions, here.

Yes and at the same time lets make it so people that don't have any children do NOT have to pay for the "free" education of other people's children, IE: AISD taxes.

Originally Posted by alexjon

Finally, Austin shouldn't feel it's so special. It's such a "green" city, so having tolls like many larger and big cities in the region is in line with its goals of becoming a truly green city rather than a mere impostor.

You're seriously delusional man. There's a HUGE difference between the other major Texas cities, which I assume you're referring to Dallas and Houston, and their toll roads compared to Austin = Namely the fact that both of those cities are roughly 5 times larger than Austin. AND they have about 5-10 times more FREEway miles than Austin. Their current and potential toll roads are no where near as disproportionate as what is being proposed for Austin. I mean we can't even get any lane expansion/widening around here without it being proposed as a "managed" (toll) lane!!

Dallas, Houston, AND San Antonio have had numerous widening projects over the years, ALL of which remained entirely as FREEways. Not tolled, managed, or whatever the hell TXDOT tries to mask it as...

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by worldcreator

Yes and at the same time lets make it so people that don't have any children do NOT have to pay for the "free" education of other people's children, IE: AISD taxes.

Sure!

You're seriously delusional man. There's a HUGE difference between the other major Texas cities, which I assume you're referring to Dallas and Houston, and their toll roads compared to Austin = Namely the fact that both of those cities are roughly 5 times larger than Austin. AND they have about 5-10 times more FREEway miles than Austin. Their current and potential toll roads are no where near as disproportionate as what is being proposed for Austin. I mean we can't even get any lane expansion/widening around here without it being proposed as a "managed" (toll) lane!!

Dallas, Houston, AND San Antonio have had numerous widening projects over the years, ALL of which remained entirely as FREEways. Not tolled, managed, or whatever the hell TXDOT tries to mask it as...

US 281. Look it up.

Jesus, you'll say anything to get a free ride, won't you?

[worldcreator]

Originally Posted by M1EK

It's not an opinion that major media outlets were constantly telling voters that the new (phase 1) projects were going to be toll roads. It's a fact. An inconvenient one for you know-nothings, but still a fact.

And when you've been conclusively corrected on it but continue to say something you now know to be false, you are simply a liar.

Umm yes it's your OPINION that everyone who voted for PROP 1 knowingly voted to allow that money to be used for the financing of toll roads. Plain and simple, YOUR opinion, not a fact. Sorry man, but you're not GOD and can't read other people's minds. But judging by your posts here, maybe you're a schitzo and think you can??

And when you consider that Austin NEVER had any toll roads prior to the 2000 election, wouldn't have been prudent to make sure the public knew exactly what they were voting for by adding the necessary language?

[worldcreator]

Originally Posted by alexjon

Sure!



US 281. Look it up.

Jesus, you'll say anything to get a free ride, won't you?

I'm referring to WIDENING projects JUNIOR.... ie: Loop 410 North in San Antonio.

IH-10 (Katy Freeway) in Houston.

LBJ Freeway and IH-30 in Dallas.

ALL have recently expanded with additional FREE lanes. NOT with that "managed" electronic toll booth crap.

This is why I noted the managed toll lanes proposal in Austin, which is obviously in reference to MOPAC.

Got it?

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by worldcreator

I'm referring to WIDENING projects JUNIOR.... ie: Loop 410 North in San Antonio.

IH-10 (Katy Freeway) in Houston.

LBJ Freeway and IH-30 in Dallas.

ALL have recently expanded with additional FREE lanes. NOT with that "managed" electronic toll booth crap.

This is why I noted the managed toll lanes proposal in Austin, which is obviously in reference to MOPAC.

Got it?

"JUNIOR"? Cut the condescending language.

http://www.texhwyman.com/l1604exp.htm

[worldcreator]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

As for 'tolls' not being in the wording for the bond election, don't blame M1EK, blame the people who wrote it that way.

Who's blaming M1EK/Homer? He's the one defending whoever wrote it up. He claims there were "legal reasons" for the truncated wording. However, has NO explanation as to what those reasons were.

[worldcreator]

Originally Posted by alexjon

"JUNIOR"? Cut the condescending language.

http://www.texhwyman.com/l1604exp.htm

O puhleese and what YOU stated first WASN'T condescending?????


"Jesus, you'll say anything to get a free ride, won't you?"


And you don't need to post links about the toll projects in SA. I'm well aware of them. Again, I was referring to widening of existing freeways. Go back and read it so you understand the difference.

The local toll road authorities have tried to mask the Mopac widening project under the guise of calling it "managed" lanes, because they don't want to use the terrible "toll" word. I assume this is NEW news to you.

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by worldcreator

O puhleese and what YOU stated first WASN'T condescending?????


"Jesus, you'll say anything to get a free ride, won't you?"


And you don't need to post links about the toll projects in SA. I'm well aware of them. Again, I was referring to widening of existing freeways. Go back and read it so you understand the difference.

The local toll road authorities have tried to mask the Mopac widening project under the guise of calling it "managed" lanes, because they don't want to use the terrible "toll" word. I assume this is NEW news to you.

1604 is getting more lanes, mostly managed.

[worldcreator]

Originally Posted by alexjon

1604 is getting more lanes, mostly managed.

1604 is a HIGHWAY. Not a FREEWAY. There's a short northern section which is built as a non-stop expressway, however the majority is a highway with stop lights.

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by worldcreator

1604 is a HIGHWAY. Not a FREEWAY. There's a short northern section which is built as a non-stop expressway, however the majority is a highway with stop lights.

The north part of 1604, which will be the most heavily managed, is a freeway.